Question / Help Streaming CPU, Motherboard & RAM (Need guidance)

[TripodKat]

I used to be very much into PC gaming but I have fallen out over the past few years because of work and school. Now that I've finished school, I am looking at getting into PC gaming again. I'm a big fan of twitch and would like to stream my gaming for my friends & family.

I recently installed OBS and ran a test stream of Black Mesa (the Half-Life 1 remake) but noticed that OBS gave me the following message in the bottom left-hand corner of the application:

"WARNING: High encoding"

While watching the stream on my phone, I noticed that the stream was a quite choppy too.

I've tried reducing my bit rate to 2500 (I have 5.20MB upload speed so this shouldn't be a problem) and I've also tried downscaling my resolution to 852x420. I am running OBS capture at 30 FPS and using x264 encoder with the "veryfast" preset. My CPU usage is no more than 5% on my desktop so I know that I'm not running any other resource-hogging programs in the background.

After a bit of research (big thanks to the fine folks on this forum), I have come to the understanding that I need to upgrade my CPU.

Here are my current specs:

- Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3.00GHz
- Nvidia GTX 760 w/1.5gb VRAM (PCI Express)
- 8GB of RAM (I cant remember if its DDR2 or DDR3)
- 2 standard SATA HDDs
- 64-bit Windows 7 Home Premium
- 650W PSU
- Logitech HD Webcam C270

So, I have a few questions:

1. What CPU should I consider upgrading to?

2. Since I need a CPU, I will probably need a new motherboard that supports the new socket type. Which motherboard should I consider?

3. I will probably need new RAM for the new motherboard. What RAM should I get?

4. Will I need a better PSU to support all the new hardware?

I have $400 - $500 to spend on the upgrade. Please let me know your suggestions. I greatly appreciate your time and assistance!

 

[Cryonic]

PSU - depends on the age. While 650W are enough to support all current configs with a single CPU and single GPU, you might want to replace it for a modern one for better safety and efficiency.

CPU - aim at least at a current gen i5, something like 4690K. The best option right now for games and streaming is actually the i7 4790K or the new 5xxx series i7. Note that K-models are overclockable (open multiplicator). If you dont want OC, go for a Xeon instead - its the same as an i7 but mostly cheaper.
Board - Z97 from MSI, ASUS or Gigabyte (dont like ASRock, but thats personal) for OC, with a Xeon you can use a lower end motherboard.

RAM - 8GB of current DDR3 should be enough. Higher speed and lower timings are better, the rest depends on the budget. You will not see any benefits from faster RAM while gaming and streaming, but when editing videos, some extra speed would make you happy.

If your RAM is DDR3, then you can fit an i7 4790K in your budget (and if you keep your PSU).
If you have to replace the PSU, go for an i5 (non-K), cheaper board and 8GB of RAM, something like Crucial (usually the cheap RAM and it fits under most coolers).

P.S. DONT forget cooling! Specially the current i5 & i7 need a big cooler to keep it cool and quiet. Something like a be quiet! dark rock pro3 will set you back way over 50$.

 

[TripodKat]

Thanks for your help Cryonic!

The PSU is about 3 years old at this point.

Everyone seems to recommend the i5-4690K. Will this be capable of streaming more resource-intensive games like Bioshock Infinite and Metro Last Light down the road? Or should I just spring for the i7-4790K so I don't have to re-upgrade a year later?

I'll open my PC later today and figure out what kind of RAM I have to see if an i7 could fit into the budget.

On the cooling question - are standard stock CPU coolers and heat-sinks not sufficient these days? I keep my apartment a constant 72 degrees Fahrenheit all day and I've never had any problems with any hardware overheating here.

 

[Cryonic]

The i7 or Xeon will have a huge advantage for streaming, the hyperthreading works great with OBS or the x264 encoder in general (and will also greatly increase the performance while editing videos etc).
In games there is almost no difference between the 4690K and 4790K running at the same speed (but the 4790K is higher clocked at stock, so its faster).
If you can fit in the 4790K - do it. The CPU will last a long time, way longer than you GPU.
But for the 4790K you also need a Z97-Board. Just pick your poison aka your trusted brand. I like to stick with ASUS, but they are usually a bit more expensive than Gigabyte and MSI boards with the same stuff on it.


And to the cooling question: the stock cooler is a jet engine and is not good enough to keep it really cool, OC not possible.
You want to spend at least 30-35$ on a decent cooler, something like this:
http://www.thermalright.de/detail/index/sArticle/50/sCategory/5
Thats decent enough to allow you quiet cooling or some OC, its priced around 35€ in Germany so expect a similar price in $. Check your case size before ordering one and also check the RAM distance to the cooler.
Specially as a streamer you want a really quiet rig, once you get a good mic this will be noticeable. Its worth it.
If you can fit a 140mm Macho, prefer it over the 120mm model.

Dont forget that you can still sell your old parts on ebay etc, i would invest it later in a good PSU, EVGA seems to make decent priced ones right now. If you want to get one of the best, get a Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 11 850W. But this is expensive, the smaller ones from Be Quiet! are also good.

 

[TripodKat]

If there's virtually no difference between the i5-4690K and the i7-4790K in games, why should I bother to spring for the i7?

Is the Z97 motherboard compatible with both i5 and i7 CPUs? I'll go with MSI on this part (I've received 2 malfunctioning laptops from ASUS in the past - quite unfortunate since they have a great reputation it seems)

For the time being I'll be using cheap $100 headphones as a mic and won't be overclocking anything yet, so I'm more concerned about the functionality rather than the noise of the CPU heat sink and fan. It sounds like I can easily upgrade the cooling unit later down the road if I decide to get a better mic and/or decide to OC the CPU. I'll keep your suggestion in mind for the future!

I'll also keep your PSU suggestion in mind too!

I appreciate your time and assistance!!

 

[Cryonic]

Games just dont use hyperthreading right now. It may change, but most games, specially what is popular on twitch right now, dont scale with high amount of cores.
The i7 is for streaming, rendering videos and a general boost for background tasks while gaming.

Yep, the cooling can be upgraded at any time withhin minutes. But once you hear the stock fan, you will jump into a car and drive to the next store that has better options :P

The Z97-Board is compatible with all CPU on this socket. The main point for a Z-Board is the ability to overclock, for this it should be equipped with a K-CPU (so an i5 or i7). If you go for a Xeon, you can take a cheaper board. Same goes for the Non-K CPU if you grab one.

A cheap Z97-Board looks like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...780&cm_re=MSI_Z97M-G43-_-13-130-780-_-Product
A more expensive one looks like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...769&cm_re=MSI_Z97-GD65-_-13-130-769-_-Product


They dont change the performance of the PC in any way, so going balls to the wall is an option when you need all the features and inputs/outputs, the looks and better cooling/slightly better overclocking (matters only in high OC areas where you also want a watercooled system etc).
I also have a cheap one (around 200$ it was the cheapest X99-Board that i could find :D), but due to the enthusiast-oriented socket, it has anything what i need and is still able to push my CPU to 4,5GHz from 3,3GHz stock clock.

 

[TripodKat]

Since the whole point is to be able to stream smoothly it sounds like the i7 is really the way to go.

Honestly, I'm terrified of overclocking my system so I've never really dabbled in it. I tried to find a Xeon CPU on newegg and the search came up empty (weird) so I'm a bit nervous to go the Xeon route. Is it worth getting an i7 "K" model even if I'm not going to overclock?

Also - if I'm not intending on overclocking, should I bother with a "Z" model motherboard?

What CPU (other than the Xeon) and motherboard combo would you suggest for someone that doesn't really want to overclock? (I may still go with the K & Z combo per your suggestion, but I just want to know what my options are here if I don't want to overclock)

Haha about the stock fan - We'll see!! I have a pretty high noise tolerance if it can save me a little bit of money :P

I'm really picking your brain here - Thanks again!! :)

 

[Cryonic]

Xeon are "server" and workstation CPUs, where the goal is running 24/7 and/or performing tasks that require stability over anything else (like rendering a video for 8h, you dont want to see a crash on the 7th hour to start all over again!).
But the stuff inside the Xeon is the same as an i7. K just means having an open multiplier (because the base clock for each Intel CPU right now is 100MHz, multiplied by a number to get the final base and boost clock, like the 4,4GHz on the 4790K). Open multi just means that you can change the number in your BIOS/UEFI.

Here is your 4790K + Board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9117369&cm_re=i7_4790k-_-19-117-369-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...780&cm_re=MSI_Z97M-G43-_-13-130-780-_-Product

445$

And here your Xeon with Board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117316
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130784

345$

Quite a difference. But there is a point - the i7 4790K is faster. Specially you will see it in games like DayZ (usually games that can use only 1-2 threads and are not optimized at all). So the extra 100$ are worth it. And you still get the OC option.

OC is actually pretty easy and safe today. By the way, your CPU and GPU already do it. The boost clock is nothing else than a slightly overclocking the chip. But you can achieve higher numbers by manually doing it. After a while a voltage increase is needed for OC, this is where stuff gets tricky (because every chip is different, they will need a different voltage for the same clock speed!). Anyway, 10% OC is possible for almost any CPU out there without increasing the voltage.
And it should be stable without any problems.
20% and higher OC - thats where stuff gets tricky. It took me a whole week of tinkering and tweaking + testing the stability for my CPU overclock (from 3,3GHz to 4,5GHz which is a great result). I also had to invest over 200$ into the cooling to keep the damn thing under 75°C while streaming :P

 

[TripodKat]

Cool stuff to know about overclocking and open multi! I'll keep this in mind when making my purchase. Someone on reddit suggested the Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor since I'm shy about overclocking. Thoughts?

I really appreciate you finding the links for me too. I'll save them in my bookmarks. You've been extremely helpful Cryonic!!!

 

[Cryonic]

Its not only slower than your 4790K at stock, its also pretty expensive compared to a Xeon with nearly the same speed. There is a reason why this CPU is not popular (check the sale stats for the 4790 and 4790K).
There is nothing to be shy about overclocking. You want to stream and you are ready to invest into it, so you should know a) what you buy and b) what can you do with it.
I dont mind if guys having this CPU will not go ballsdeep into OC, but everyone who gets the K-CPU, should at least know how to do it.

P.S. if you have a Microcenter close to you - go visit them. Will save you some money, even a 200mile trip is worth it, the gas will still be cheaper than ordering it elsewhere :D

 

[TripodKat]

Omg so funny you mentioned Microcenter. I just went to the one by my house and got the i7-4790k with a ASRock Z97 Pro4 plus 8gb of DDR3 1866 RAM for $418.67. Looks like I'll be OC ready!!

 

[Cryonic]

Sounds about right, good stuff. Slap it together and then let a game and OBS run (720p 60FPS at least with the default preset^^) and then tell me how loud the stock fan is. If you can tolerate it - welcome to the top 2% club, other 98% freak out about the noise xD

 

[TripodKat]

I've built the PC and am looking at the bios right now! I'm okay with the noise of the stock CPU fan (its quieter than the one for my core 2 duo! Lol) so i guess I'm in the 2%!!

I have another question though, the CPU idle temp is 52° C according to the bios. I checked and the artic thermal paste is well applied evenly (i used the "pea" method). Is 52° C okay? I hear it shouldnt go over 45°C at idle.

Thanks again Cryonic!!

 

[Harold]

the K and X series haswell chips are rated for temps up to about 105c. 50 at idle MIGHT be high depending on what the temperature in the room is.

 

[TripodKat]

Thanks for your reply Harold, my room temp is 22.2°C (72°F) all day. Im a bit concerned since my CPU is double my room temp! :O

Will the cooler Cryonic suggested above help me out?!

 

[Harold]

Possibly. I'm getting sub-45c idle temperatures on my 4770k overclocked to 4.2ghz with a corsair hydro h100i cooler and ambient temps around 25-30c.
Self-contained liquid coolers will depend on the case you're trying to install them in as to which one to get.

 

[TripodKat]

I guess the real question is, can i fit a new cooler in on this setup? (See attached picture)

 

[Harold]

a single-width liquid cooler could go in, replacing the back panel fan right next to the processor.

Otherwise, unless there's mounting holes on your side panel, you're basically stuck with the single-module air coolers.

 

[TripodKat]

What does "single width" mean? I tried looking this up to no avail...

 

[Harold]

single fan 120mm radiator such as the corsair H80i