# RTMP and HEVC



## lostbacon (Nov 30, 2017)

I know this has been asked before.  Obviously, RTMP isn't being updated by Adobe.  There are a total of 15 possible codec IDs in FLV/RTMP.  Only 7 are assigned.  Why doesn't the OBS and librtmp team get together and just say "lets make #8 HEVC"?  Then any ingest server which wants to support HEVC must understand #8.  It can then be formalized in an IETF draft.


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## Fenrir (Nov 30, 2017)

HEVC is not suitable for live streaming applications, and the RTMP spec is basically abandoned. This is not really possible.


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## lostbacon (Nov 30, 2017)

Is the technical problem RTMP spec or the use of B frames demanding larger delay?  Technically, since the RTMP spec is abandoned; we can do whatever we want to extend it.  Low Delay HEVC is coming and its easier to bolt on to RTMP than to add a whole new publish stack to existing solutions.


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## dodgepong (Nov 30, 2017)

I would prefer to follow an established specification rather than try to force a convention by fiat.


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## lostbacon (Nov 30, 2017)

There are numerous situations where standards developed not because they went through an ISO process but because someone was the first to do it and everyone followed suit.  Honestly, I don't know why Twitch isn't all over this using their money to have it added into these broadcasters because it would save them huge on bandwidth.  What we can do is put together a working group of some industry players so the work wouldn't really be forcing a convention on anyone.  The industry has to take over where Adobe left off.


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## Osiris (Nov 30, 2017)

Who is this "we"? We as in OBS can't do anything.


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## Fenrir (Nov 30, 2017)

"*Real-Time Messaging Protocol* (*RTMP*) was initially a proprietary protocol developed by Macromedia for streaming audio, video and data over the Internet, between a Flash player and a server. Macromedia is now owned by Adobe, which has released an incomplete version of the specification of the protocol for public use."

Even if anyone wanted to, it's not an open source spec, and what is out there is incomplete. Nobody can really make any changes. You're much better off finding someone who wants to create a new protocol.

You'd be much better off working on adding support for something like SRT to OBS if you want to spend the effort: https://www.srtalliance.org/


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## lostbacon (Nov 30, 2017)

Osiris said:


> Who is this "we"? We as in OBS can't do anything.


we =  myself and everyone I know that is pushing HEVC adoption at ingest because no one wants to maintain transcoding servers.


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## lostbacon (Nov 30, 2017)

Fenrir said:


> "*Real-Time Messaging Protocol* (*RTMP*) was initially a proprietary protocol developed by Macromedia for streaming audio, video and data over the Internet, between a Flash player and a server. Macromedia is now owned by Adobe, which has released an incomplete version of the specification of the protocol for public use."
> 
> Even if anyone wanted to, it's not an open source spec, and what is out there is incomplete. Nobody can really make any changes. You're much better off finding someone who wants to create a new protocol.
> 
> You'd be much better off working on adding support for something like SRT to OBS if you want to spend the effort: https://www.srtalliance.org/



The spec as-is is complete enough to add more codecs, but that's besides the point.

I've been on board with the idea of creating an open source broadcasting protocol to compete with RTMP for a while.  The only problem has been finding others in positions to make use of it.  For example, if the group comes up with the spec -- who is going to add it to FFMPEG or OBS?  The people I know work at companies which ingest and distribute the media.  I would love to make more acquaintances with people that develop the tools like OBS because that would give any new protocol some initial footing.  Actually, I'm pretty sure I wrote a post about looking for members to develop a new proto on here at one point in time.

SRT doesn't have a standard protocol for creating the streams and identifying the actual format of the data carried in the SRT stream.


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## rufael (Feb 15, 2019)

Hi, we have been working the last year and a half to work on an ingest format over HTTP POST using MPEG CMAF, this work includes many of the OTT industry stakeholders, it was published as IETF draft initially but the specification is under review now in the DASH industry forum:
https://dashif-documents.azurewebsites.net/Ingest/master/DASH-IF-Ingest.html and may eventually be a good substitute for rtmp based ingest, please feel free to join this activity or provide inputs, we already use this for HEVC live ingest, best, Rufael


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## dodgepong (Feb 15, 2019)

Personally I am of the opinion that the future of streaming will be AV1, not HEVC.


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## gahbes (Aug 14, 2020)

I posted a few links here to show that HEVC is indeed relevant for RTMP and they get deleted because apparently it's spam. Could one of the admins please explain why? How is that not relevant to this thread?

Anyway, HEVC over RTMP is currently used by several companies a contribution stream where low latency and over 4k resolution is required.  For example, 360 video where 8k is quickly becoming the norm and many companies use OBS for processing and streaming 360 video.


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## Fenrir (Aug 17, 2020)

You bumped a thread that was well over a year old, and RTMP does not support HEVC. The threads you posted looked like spam sites trying to get site views for ad revenue, and they were they only posts you had made on this forum. The solutions where RTMP is forced to accept HEVC are extremely hacky and not really something any major service provider, or we, has any interest in supporting.


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## helgedopler (Sep 1, 2020)

Regardless of whether anybody needed to, it is anything but an open source spec, and what is out there is inadequate. It's not possible for anyone to truly roll out any improvements. You're vastly improved off discovering somebody who needs to make another convention.


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