# twitch 8000 bitrate



## ZergShadow (May 5, 2021)

I had tried run stream in 8000 and it works. What cons?


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## TryHD (May 5, 2021)

none


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## ZergShadow (May 5, 2021)

TryHD said:


> none


How much can i rise for twitch?


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## TryHD (May 5, 2021)

8250kbit/s for video and 160kbit/s for audio or equivalent less for your video if you increase your audio bitrate for some reason


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## ZergShadow (May 5, 2021)

TryHD said:


> 8250kbit/s for video and 160kbit/s for audio or equivalent less for your video if you increase your audio bitrate for some reason


But obs allows 320 for audio and I use this. Seems now i go your settings. Tnx man. But how you found this numbers?
https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/broadcast-guidelines?language=en_US in this article they say 128-320 for audio.
if i go 128 audio so i can go 8282 video?


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## TryHD (May 5, 2021)

ZergShadow said:


> if i go 128 audio so i can go 8282 video?


yes pretty much, twitch max is 8500kbit/s total bitrate and they turn off the stream if you go higher, so you want to stay as close to 8500 kbit/s as possible but still have some wiggle room because the bitrate fluctuates because no encoder does clean CBR


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## ZergShadow (May 5, 2021)

TryHD said:


> 8250kbit/s for video and 160kbit/s for audio or equivalent less for your video if you increase your audio bitrate for some reason


Seems you was right but now this is 8250 320 and can go further with video bitrate if you go less then 128 audio.


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## BardiBard (May 5, 2021)

I wouldn't recommend going over Twitch's own recommendations, which would be bitrate 6000 and audio 128 kbps (max 320kbps).






						Customer Support
					






					help.twitch.tv
				




Dunno how and if they enforce it, but higher bitrates are usually only allowed for affiliates and partners.
Worst case you might get a temporary suspension.


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## ZergShadow (May 5, 2021)

TryHD said:


> yes pretty much, twitch max is 8500kbit/s total bitrate and they turn off the stream if you go higher, so you want to stay as close to 8500 kbit/s as possible but still have some wiggle room because the bitrate fluctuates because no encoder does clean CBR


Now i think that its only connected with overall bitrate.i can start now good with 7948 128 and higher  chances to get good start  is lower. For me  7948 128 7949 128 is critical numbers where I start get bad starts.


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## ZergShadow (May 5, 2021)

This numbers fluctuates all the time.


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## TryHD (May 5, 2021)

BardiBard said:


> Dunno how and if they enforce it, but higher bitrates are usually only allowed for affiliates and partners.
> Worst case you might get a temporary suspension.


Thanks for not knowing anything but still posting. There is no differents if you are partner, affliate or a 5 minute old account they all have the same limits. I don't get why this myth always gets brought up.


ZergShadow said:


> Now i think that its only connected with overall bitrate.i can start now good with 7948 128 and higher  chances to get good start  is lower. For me  7948 128 7949 128 is critical numbers where I start get bad starts.


It does depend on the encoder that is used and by how much it does overshoot with the bitrate, x264 does not fluctuate as much as nvenc, but streaming with nvenc with 8250kbit/s for video and 160kbit/s for audio did always work for me. Going over that gave me from time to time error  #1000 and the stream could not be viewed.


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## ZergShadow (May 5, 2021)

TryHD said:


> Thanks for not knowing anything but still posting. There is no differents if you are partner, affliate or a 5 minute old account they all have the same limits. I don't get why this myth always gets brought up.
> 
> It does depend on the encoder that is used and by how much it does overshoot with the bitrate, x264 does not fluctuate as much as nvenc, but streaming with nvenc with 8250kbit/s for video and 160kbit/s for audio did always work for me. Going over that gave me from time to time error  #1000 and the stream could not be viewed.


There more bitrate i use, the more chances that i lose source quality at start. I also think it depends on daytime.


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## TryHD (May 5, 2021)

Yes if you are peaking over 8500 kbit/s for longer than a few seconds twitch does disable source if you have transcoding or cuts the stream of and shows error #1000 for new viewers if you don't have transcoding. If you got source once running it will keep running, you have to refresh the browser tab to see if it does work.
Keep trying until you find your sweet spot that works. It is worth in a so bitrate limited enviroment to try to squeze every bit you can get for better quality.


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## ZergShadow (May 6, 2021)

TryHD said:


> Yes if you are peaking over 8500 kbit/s for longer than a few seconds twitch does disable source if you have transcoding or cuts the stream of and shows error #1000 for new viewers if you don't have transcoding. If you got source once running it will keep running, you have to refresh the browser tab to see if it does work.
> Keep trying until you find your sweet spot that works. It is worth in a so bitrate limited enviroment to try to squeze every bit you can get for better quality.


At start you told that maximum is 8250 +160 is 8410 now you tell that its 8500!


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## ZergShadow (May 6, 2021)

ZergShadow said:


> At start you told that maximum is 8250 +160 is 8410 now you tell that its 8500!


now i reread that and understand that 8250 150 stable and 8410-8500 can give #1000 error later.tnx.


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## FerretBomb (May 6, 2021)

There is no higher bitrate limit for Partners. I am one.

8000kbps is simply a word-of-mouth, entirely unofficial "known good" value that *mostly* works.
There is no technologically-enforced upper limit to how much bitrate you can use. (Staff MAY come in and ask you to turn it down.)
I have successfully tested with up to 12mbps, but as you go higher, more people will receive Network Errors and player blackscreens.
Your stream may stop being replicated if the ingest server is unable to process your incoming bitrate. A partial will end up with the Source option being removed, as the ingest/replication/transfer stack failed, but the ingest was able to feed into the transcode stack to the point THAT feed can still be replicated and transferred to the local video delivery CDN servers. It isn't Twitch 'turning off Source'.
Audio bitrate IS factored in.
The difference between 320kbps MP3 and 128kbps MP3 is significant. 320 and 128 AAC (which OBS uses) is mostly un-noticeable unless you're listening side-by-side. I've run down to 96kbps and no one noticed. 160 is as high as I'd bother going on audio.

The drawbacks to high bitrate:
Your viewers WILL receive more player Network Errors and have to reload the stream.
Unless you are a Partner with guaranteed transcodes (quality options), running at a high bitrate will reduce the accessibility of your stream. The higher bitrate you stream at, the fewer people will be able to watch smoothly. Running at a high bitrate without _guaranteed_ transcodes is MASSIVELY shooting yourself in the foot; to grow, you need to make sure that ANYONE coming in will be able to watch your stream, before worrying about wanking over 1080p or 60fps video.

Number-wanking is hands-down the BIGGEST newbie-trap. I fell into it myself at the beginning. A 720p30 stream at 2000kbps with good mic audio and game/mic balance will gain and retain FAR more viewers than cranking the dials to 8000+kbps to satisfy the number wanking "must have 1080p60!!!11!!" that many new streamers do.


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## TryHD (May 6, 2021)

ZergShadow said:


> now i reread that and understand that 8250 150 stable and 8410-8500 can give #1000 error later.tnx.


The problem is the fluctuation of bitrate caused by the encoder like i wrote above, example:
static image: https://r-1.ch/analyzer/results/pwxi4dhkgshvzukvbv0w.db3a70
gameplay: https://r-1.ch/analyzer/results/pwxi4dhkgshvzukvbv0w.ff3450





If that happens for multiple segments (so 4 or more seconds) your stream gets detected as to high bitrate and looe source or will display error #1000 for new viewers. But it the error #1000 fix itself after the stream was under that 8500kbit/s for some time, idk if source will come back, I never tested with account that gets transcoding from the start.


FerretBomb said:


> 8000kbps is simply a word-of-mouth, entirely unofficial "known good" value that *mostly* works.


Well the 8500 kbit/s limit is nothing unofficial, it is what Yueshi Shen said is the max twitch is willing to deliver for every channel no matter if it is a new or a partner account. Rest of what you wrote is technical wrong, only thing that is true is that viewers that don't have fast enough internet won't be able to view your stream, but depending on the country you focus that share of viewers unable to do that are near zero.


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## FerretBomb (May 6, 2021)

TryHD said:


> Well the 8500 kbit/s limit is nothing unofficial, it is what Yueshi Shen said is the max twitch is willing to deliver for every channel no matter if it is a new or a partner account.


Interesting. Where did he say that? Only bit I've been able to find was about IWS, not Twitch, and as general recommendations.


> Rest of what you wrote is technical wrong, only thing that is true is that viewers that don't have fast enough internet won't be able to view your stream, but depending on the country you focus that share of viewers unable to do that are near zero.


Again, just a Partner trying to help out with real-world experience as to what works, and why so many never grow. If you want to ignore it and continue number-wanking, that is your prerogative. Enjoy.


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## TryHD (May 6, 2021)

FerretBomb said:


> Interesting. Where did he say that? Only bit I've been able to find was about IWS, not Twitch, and as general recommendations.











						Big Apple Video 2019 - Towards a healthy AV1 ecosystem for UGC platforms
					

Twitch is a UGC live streaming platform with more than 100k concurrent channels at its peak. Currently, to avoid excessive replication cost, Twitch only supp...




					youtu.be
				





FerretBomb said:


> Again, just a Partner trying to help out with real-world experience as to what works, and why so many never grow. If you want to ignore it and continue number-wanking, that is your prerogative. Enjoy.


Sure you want to help but with your recommendation you would lose me and pretty much any other tech savvy person after some seconds because of the low quality annoyance. If your target are 12 year olds with no money, watchting on their smartphone in a poor country, sure your recommendation could be great. But than you are partner but still will not make any real money. The guys with the deep pockets don't watch trash quality streams.


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## FerretBomb (May 6, 2021)

Hey, handy! Thanks for the link.



TryHD said:


> Sure you want to help but with your recommendation you would lose me and pretty much any other tech savvy person after some seconds because of the low quality annoyance. If your target are 12 year olds with no money, watchting on their smartphone in a poor country, sure your recommendation could be great. But than you are partner but still will not make any real money. The guys with the deep pockets don't watch trash quality streams.


At least 50% of your viewership is not watching the stream at all, just using it for background noise. Video quality is significantly less important than having good audio.

If you cater to the up-their-own-ass snobs when you are getting started, you will not grow.
Specifically, *for new/small streamers*, streaming at high bitrates is shooting yourself in the foot to the point of blowing off your leg. When you have guaranteed transcodes as a Partner, you can go nuts. But frankly, having the mass market share is far more important even then, and most still choose to cater toward the midrange instead of the 'perfect quality only' demanders.

Frankly, you tend to ignore the one whale in favor of a thousand "12 year olds with no money". It's a much safer bet to diversify, and work in monetization through other means. All of which is neither here nor there, as we aren't talking about Partner-level strategy. We're talking about new-users.

So please, stop giving new streamers *actively harmful* recommendations that will cripple their growth, encouraging them toward your number-wanking preference.


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## TryHD (May 6, 2021)

I will not stop. I will not support advising others to have a crappy stream just so some low end bobs can watch it. That is harmfull for the complete platform because than you simply ignore everyone under 100 viewers because you know the quality is so shit it is not worth to even click on the stream even though it sounds interesting.


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## FerretBomb (May 6, 2021)

Low bitrate does not mean crap quality. It means leaving off the luxuries (like 60fps), and working within a tight bitrate budget to make yourself as accessible as possible, to give yourself the best chance to succeed.

Again. Please stop giving shitty advice to people who don't know enough to realize how harmful it is. You've been doing it for a while.


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## TryHD (May 6, 2021)

resolution will kill the quality, fps don't have that big of a impact on the quality.

And again, no. There are no studies that researched that field, so you could be right or talk complete bullshit, there is no data to back this up and no, studies about the network speed at the end of the world on a mobile device don't target this usecase, you would need data from twitch for this to see the min speed values viewers reach and they don't publish that as far as i know.


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## FerretBomb (May 6, 2021)

TryHD said:


> resolution will kill the quality, fps don't have that big of a effect on the quality.
> 
> And again, no. There are no studies that researched that field, so you could be right or talk complete bullshit, there is no data to back this up and no, studies about the network speed at the end of the world on a mobile device don't target this usecase, you would need data from twitch for this to see the min speed values viewers reach and they don't publish that as far as i know.


Doubling the FPS literally near-doubles the bitrate needed to maintain a set image quality level at the higher framerate.
You are entirely talking out your ass.

Livestreaming is literally my full-time job. I make my living doing it.
Please. PLEASE. Stop giving newbies bad advice.


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## TryHD (May 6, 2021)

And that shows why just because you are doing something makes you no expert in it. You don't seem to understand how a encoder works.


FerretBomb said:


> Doubling the FPS literally near-doubles the bitrate needed to maintain a set image quality level at the higher framerate.


This would only happen if you stream uncompressed bitmaps, but that is not the case.
See for example the results from xaymar





source: https://blog.xaymar.com/2020/06/24/the-art-of-encoding-with-nvidia-turing-nvenc/


FerretBomb said:


> Livestreaming is literally my full-time job. I make my living doing it.
> Please. PLEASE. Stop giving newbies bad advice.


There is no correlation between you streaming full time and having any knowledge on that topic.
If you would work as system architect for a streaming plattform yes, but as a simple user no, you are no better than any other random dude on the internet giving recommendations. Maybe actually worse because your expierence is years old, asking a magic 8 ball could get me better results on what is the right bitrate currently.
So if you find research to it from twitch or a other gaming oriented website, point me to it and will create my conclusion if I should stop recommending the best quality that is possible but until that i will ignore you.


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## qhobbes (May 6, 2021)

Speaking of magic 8 balls, I stream pool matches. The majority of the time 50-75% of the screen is static. Because of this I get decent (not broadcast) quality at 3072 Kbps using the rig in my sig (I've since switched to VBR 3072-5120 and works great on FB, Twitch and YT). I tried streaming a few times at 59.94 FPS at CBR 3072 and the quality instantly turned to garbage.


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## TryHD (May 6, 2021)

quicksync is no effective encoder (amf is even worse) in the first place, trying that with nvenc or x264 at medium should give you better results at maintaining the quality while increasing the fps. If your compression ratio is low at the start it makes sence that doubling the FPS will result in a much bigger quality loss against encoder settings that are very effective.


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## ZergShadow (May 19, 2021)

FerretBomb said:


> There is no higher bitrate limit for Partners. I am one.
> 
> 8000kbps is simply a word-of-mouth, entirely unofficial "known good" value that *mostly* works.
> There is no technologically-enforced upper limit to how much bitrate you can use. (Staff MAY come in and ask you to turn it down.)
> ...


For me I cant start with more then 8500 like  TRYhd says. Are you partner?


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## TryHD (May 20, 2021)

ZergShadow said:


> For me I cant start with more then 8500 like  TRYhd says. Are you partner?


It doesn't matter if you are partner or not, the not enforced upper limit is gone since many years. There is a hardcut at 8500kbit/s for everybody.


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## ZergShadow (May 20, 2021)

TryHD said:


> It doesn't matter if you are partner or not, the not enforced upper limit is gone since many years. There is a hardcut at 8500kbit/s for everybody.


Seems for me now after tests that its 8660 with audiio.


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