Question / Help Quick questions about Quick Sync (already implemented)

[transatlas]

Hi guys

I mainly play League of Legends, and I have a fps capped at 60 and my fps is almost always equal to 60. When I started streaming, my fps dropped to 15-30 and was even close to 5-15 in the late game. I was streaming with x264 with monitor capture, so it was bad. Now I use Quick Sync + game capture to actually make my Intel HD 3000 graphic card do something (instead of doing nothing) to relax my CPU. Result : I run between 50-60 fps, often around 55 which is enough for me. From time to time, but occasionally, my fps might drop to 25-30 when there are big teamfights. Fortunately this doesn't happen quite often, but that sucks when it happens.

I have 4GB of Ram and an old i5 with 2 physical cores 2.40Ghz ( 3Ghz with Turbo Boost + 2 virtual cores with hyperthreading). I know that my graphic card is also not that good. I was monitoring on the task manager the CPU usage and memory usage, they were both quite high so I decided to buy implement an additional 4 GB of Ram as of today. Now I have 8 GB of Ram but I'll only stream tonight so I can see if there is any improvement (I know that OBS is mainly dependent on CPU, but I think that low amount of RAM might cause the CPU to work more).

I disabled Aero. I know that Aero is recommanded with Window Capture but I use only window capture when I'm not playing. My reasoning was that disabling Aero will decrease by a little bit my Intel Card usage, so that the Intel card can be entirely free for Quick Sync encoding. But another reasoning will consist in saying that disabling Aero increases a bit the CPU usage (like what, 0.5% XD) so it might be worth relaxing the CPU instead of the Intel card.


My questions are the following:
- The drop in fps (from 60 to 30) from time to time: is it due to my limited CPU ? Graphic card? 4 GB of Ram not enough?
- Does OBS actually make my nividia graphic card work? Or can I be sure that my nvidia card is fully available for my game?
- Do we agree that Intel QuickSync has nothing to do with the "Video adapter" in the Video Settings? I guess it is correct to select my Nvidia card otherwise I won't be able to capture the game with game capture (I must not select my Intel card cause encoding has nothing to do with adaptaters used).
- Can QuickSync increase my Nvidia graphic card usage? I found a test in a topic in OBS which was showing that enabling QuickSync decreases CPU usage but increases the other graphic card for some reasons...
- Can small images, texts or alerts (follower etc.) increase any usage?
- Does the preview in the OBS window eat some CPU/Graphic Card/RAM?

Is there any optimization I can do to stream with no drop of fps at all? (Settings are already low in the game) Would you say that my CPU is bad?

Thanks a lot for your advices !
And keep up the good work, OBS is the best :)

 

[transatlas]

Any advices or help would be much appreciated !

 

[transatlas]

Up plz :) My fps is getting more and more low for some reasons.
Would be appreciate if a developper tells me if there is any more optimization I could do or it is just impossible to stream with my laptop :D

 

[dping]

Up plz :) My fps is getting more and more low for some reasons.
Would be appreciate if a developper tells me if there is any more optimization I could do or it is just impossible to stream with my laptop :D

First, enable Aero. since quicksync is being used, the CPU isn't stressed by OBS as much. enable aero because it improved the fps of the stream capture. disabling aero is like going back to windows xp and disabling all the optimizations of your new OS for games and windows.

Use game capture, one game capture for the main menu of LoL and one for being in game. you will need to make each scene live, then alt tab to OBS and refresh the game capture to see each scene.

then install this for League which is automattically switch to the active window.

https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/simple-scene-switcher.12616/

 

[transatlas]

I don't know I read in some topics that with or without Aero, CPU usage is exactly the same. Enabling Aero just give some work to the intel HD graphic card, and I thought disabling Aero will leave the intel HD card completely available for encoding with quicksync.

Today again, after the 8GB ram, nothing changed much as expected. But something noticable is that in the first 3 hours of my stream, my fps is good but after it gets worse. Like I had a fps constantly of 30 at my fifth game. Then I rebooted the computer, and my fps went back to 50-60 during all game.

I can't understand why playing League + runing OBS with quicksyn requires so much CPU usage. This is incredible, everytime I alt tab I see big CPU usage. Is this normal? Knowing that everything else is closed, except Chrome with soundcloud.

Are you sure it's more efficient to view the PVP.net Client of League in a game capture rather than a window capture?

My principal concern is to discover what really causes the drop in fps in games and how to avoid it. Here is my latest log file with my new 8 GB of RAM after a reboot of the computer.

The problem is that I can't afford to tell my 30 viewers that I need to reboot the computer every 4-5 hours!

 

[dping]

I don't know I read in some topics that with or without Aero, CPU usage is exactly the same. Enabling Aero just give some work to the intel HD graphic card, and I thought disabling Aero will leave the intel HD card completely available for encoding with quicksync.

Today again, after the 8GB ram, nothing changed much as expected. But something noticable is that in the first 3 hours of my stream, my fps is good but after it gets worse. Like I had a fps constantly of 30 at my fifth game. Then I rebooted the computer, and my fps went back to 50-60 during all game.

I can't understand why playing League + runing OBS with quicksyn requires so much CPU usage. This is incredible, everytime I alt tab I see big CPU usage. Is this normal? Knowing that everything else is closed, except Chrome with soundcloud.

Are you sure it's more efficient to view the PVP.net Client of League in a game capture rather than a window capture?

My principal concern is to discover what really causes the drop in fps in games and how to avoid it. Here is my latest log file with my new 8 GB of RAM after a reboot of the computer.

The problem is that I can't afford to tell my 30 viewers that I need to reboot the computer every 4-5 hours!

sounds like your problem could be heat, as in CPU throttling...just a thought but its what it refers to if it slows down over time.

Lastly, for an extra boost in fps in game. disable the OBS preview window. start previewing OBS, right click on the "preview", click "preview", and uncheck "enable view".

 

[D2ultima]

OBS requires the CPU to capture, even using Quicksync and NVENC. So just because you're offloading the gruntwork to your iGPU that's not working (I assume Optimus) when you're gaming it doesn't mean that the CPU isn't getting any extra work on it. And since you're on a dual core, even a little extra load can go a long way in reducing game FPS.

That being said, you still need to watch out for throttling. Streaming can be some hot business for a CPU, and if you're on a non-gaming laptop, I can 350% guarantee you, it was not designed for any kind of workload on the CPU.

Also, it's possible you're power throttling on the CPU. But I have no way to tell without having you run extensive benchmarks using throttlestop and Intel XTU while monitoring temperatures.

 

[transatlas]

Thanks a lot guys for your answers ! I really appreciate it !

dping => One question, don't you think that having 2 live scenes might takes even more ressource from the CPU? I will try to uncheck preview as you adviced !

D2ultima => I think you nailed it! I downloaded Intel XTU (damn man I was looking for a software like this the last days you just saved my life I love you :D ). I'm going to try to run counter strike right now just to see if I have any thermal throttling, in which case I'm going to buy this afternoon a cooling pad ! I don't want to manually block the throttling to avoid any damage on my processor, a cooling pad should lower the temperature and there will be no automatic throlttling I think

I'll keep you updated ! If you have any other advice feel free.

 

[transatlas]

Btw just to say that I used previously a software to unpark all cores ! I don't know if it's a good idea?

 

[dping]

Thanks a lot guys for your answers ! I really appreciate it !

dping => One question, don't you think that having 2 live scenes might takes even more ressource from the CPU? I will try to uncheck preview as you adviced !

D2ultima => I think you nailed it! I downloaded Intel XTU (damn man I was looking for a software like this the last days you just saved my life I love you :D ). I'm going to try to run counter strike right now just to see if I have any thermal throttling, in which case I'm going to buy this afternoon a cooling pad ! I don't want to manually block the throttling to avoid any damage on my processor, a cooling pad should lower the temperature and there will be no automatic throlttling I think

I'll keep you updated ! If you have any other advice feel free.

the process of showing multiple sources per scene is not a huge deal. having multiple scenes is the way to go and switch when you need.
using global sources takes up a few more resources but is worth it when scene changes are taking to long for all but monitor capture; just dont do monitor capture if you have any

dont buy a thermal pad. thats like buying a gallon of water to cool a hot room instead of turning on the AC. the issue 90% of the time with laptops is what I call (and typically is) "cat hair" in the exhaust port of the CPU/GPU heatsync.

typically "stuff" gets between the fan and the exaust fins which cause heat to not leave. thermal pads just move around a little air and keep your lap cooler.

what you really need to do is buy some non-conductive thermal paste and remove/clean out that area. 90% of the time, there is a need to remove the heatpipe, fan and heatsync and this can be a careful operation.

I use:
Antec Formula 6 Nano Diamond Thermal Compound. you dont need the large container just the small one if you can find it.

Btw just to say that I used previously a software to unpark all cores ! I don't know if it's a good idea?

 

[D2ultima]

If you want to get best cooling for laptops as far as thermal paste goes, you need:
IC Diamond
Arctic Céramique 2
Gelid GC Extreme
Shin Etsu X23-7921 5

Any of the above thermal pastes would be the best you could use for repasting of the CPU and GPU on a laptop without using liquid metal paste.

Next, you might be able to slightly undervolt your CPU to reduce heat output and power drawn, further killing power limit throttling. How much a CPU can undervolt is a trial and error process. My CPU can do -50mV on the dynamic cpu voltage offset slider in XTU, but only at 3.5GHz (stock) on 4 cores. See what yours can do. If you EVER get a BSOD after dropping the voltage with "WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR" then you don't have enough voltage, and need to undervolt less.

 

[transatlas]

Hey guys!

I wished I read your messages before I hurried to go out to buy a cooling pad...
Actually I launched counter strike go, monitored everything with the Intel XTU and after some 35min of games, I saw the Thermal Throttling going up, and the processor frequency going down to even 1.8Ghz (while the base frequency is 2.4 Ghz), then it went up again a bit and it repeated those steps over time. So since the heat was apparently the problem, I went out to buy a cooling pad. I actually thought and even asked how much does it cost to clean the CPU to get rid of "cat hair", they told me 49€ (cooling pad costed me 25€). But then I remembered D2ultima saying "maybe your computer was not designed for any kind of workload on the CPU", so I thought the airpad would be better. But I realize now that my computer is almost 3 years old, so yeah there must be some good "cat hair" over there :)

I already knew that the cooling airpad won't solve the problem, but it will for sure reduce it. The airflow is adjustable and the max airflow is 115 CFM.

Concerning buying myself the thermal compounds etc., I don't feel confident in achieving such a risky operation since I'm far from being an expert. I wished I had friends like you !

 

[transatlas]

Here is the result of the benchmarking test given by Intel XTU as you asked (without the cooling pad) D2Ultima: http://hwbot.org/xtu/share/184836

Why do I see a "False" near Turbo? Isn't the Intel Turbo Boost enabled in my computer?
I'm gonna run CS go with medium setting and see if the airpad reduces the Thermal Throttling !

 

[dping]

Here is the result of the benchmarking test given by Intel XTU as you asked (without the cooling pad) D2Ultima: http://hwbot.org/xtu/share/184836

Why do I see a "False" near Turbo? Isn't the Intel Turbo Boost enabled in my computer?
I'm gonna run CS go with medium setting and see if the airpad reduces the Thermal Throttling !

your original post was about quicksync, and I noticed from your benchmark that is says your intel drivers are WAY out of date. might think about updating those...

 

[D2ultima]

Here is the result of the benchmarking test given by Intel XTU as you asked (without the cooling pad) D2Ultima: http://hwbot.org/xtu/share/184836

Why do I see a "False" near Turbo? Isn't the Intel Turbo Boost enabled in my computer?
I'm gonna run CS go with medium setting and see if the airpad reduces the Thermal Throttling !

i3 has no turbo boost. i5 does.
Also, the benchmark will throttle all laptop CPUs for some odd reason. I wanted you to run the stress test with a monitoring program like HWiNFO64 running in sensors-only mode to check if you got thermal throttle. XTU's sensors can show if you're current throttling or power limit throttling, and XTU's stress test is a good indicator of this.

 

[transatlas]

dping => No dude my intel driver is up to date 2/5/2015, otherwise I can't enconde with quicksync ;)
The second driver is the mirage driver (2008) something enabling you to share your screen throught your android phones. I used it once or two, gonna delete it if you want.

D2ultima => I have an i5 core, not i3...why does it say that turbo boost is false?

I started counter strike go and yes there is Thermal Throttling. I uploaded the picture there :
http://postimg.org/image/wn61ri62b/

 

[D2ultima]

dping => No dude my intel driver is up to date 2/5/2015, otherwise I can't enconde with quicksync ;)
The second driver is the mirage driver (2008) something enabling you to share your screen throught your android phones. I used it once or two, gonna delete it if you want.

D2ultima => I have an i5 core, not i3...why does it say that turbo boost is false?

I started counter strike go and yes there is Thermal Throttling. I uploaded the picture there :
http://postimg.org/image/wn61ri62b/

Oh right... sorry, I thought I read i3-2430M. I'm dumb, I should have known that i3s don't get such high second numbers in Intel's naming scheme.

WOW that is some serious thermal throttling. I very much suggest cleaning out your vents and possibly repasting with one of the pastes I listed above. Your CPU will be a rectangle, so a LINE application is best, instead of a dot or cross etc.

As for why turbo boost is false; feel free to post a screenshot of your XTU page under "all controls".

 

[transatlas]

Well okay...I regret having bought this airpad instead of actually telling them to clean my vents...That was just retarded, should I have waited for your answers guys :( :(

Good news is that I just called them, they said they will payback the airpad. But I'll pay them 39€ and they said they will clean everything in my laptop (but just cleaning). That's kinda expensive...

Anyway, I'm gonna stream this evening with the airpad, hope this will help a bit my CPU not overheating !

I will keep you updated (I really hope that there will be no Thermal Throttling after that otherwise I'd have spent 39€ for nothing :( ).

Edit: I can't find the section "Under controlls" to post my results. Could you tell me where it is? Thx !

 

[transatlas]

That being said, I'm wondering whether the cleaning of the vents is going to change a lot of things. Searching google, it appears that some are complaining about the heat on the i5-2430M, which is my processor. Really wondering if it's not better to keep the coolpad. And after all, you said yourself that : " if you're on a non-gaming laptop, I can 350% guarantee you, it was not designed for any kind of workload on the CPU"

I don't know what to do anymore :(

 

[D2ultima]

"All controls" looks like this without all those options (for you):

I need to see an actual shot of that page. At the side you need to click "All Controls" and show me a screenshot.

As for cleaning it, MAKE SURE they repaste with good paste. Suggest that you want Gelid GC Extreme or IC Diamond or Arctic Céramique 2, because MX-2 and MX-4 are highly prone to pumping out of low-pressure heatsink environments on delidded CPUs like we are using, and MX-2 and MX-4 are stupid popular in desktop land.

Also keep the cooling pad. If nothing else it'll help the airflow.

If all of this does not solve the problem, then your machine just isn't designed to do workloads like gaming/streaming. It's what happens when you buy cheaper machines like Dells or Acer or HP or Fujitsu. Most people when buying just want to get "something to work" and unlike desktops where you can get quality low-end parts for cheap, laptops you need to spend quite a pretty penny to get quality of any kind, because people honestly enjoy ripping users off. Apple isn't the only one.

Intel and nVidia and AMD *LOVE* ripping off users with stuff.
GTX 980M - less cores, slower memory, less VRMs than GTX 970 & 980. Price? ~$700 USD
GTX 780M - functionally equivalent to downclocked GTX 680 (core clock and memory clock). Price at release? ~$900 USD

Price of 970? $329 USD. Price of 980? $550 USD. Price of 680? $550 USD.

AMD 7870 on release - ~$250
AMD 7970M = 7870 downclocked (core and memory) = $600 USD on release.

Intel i7-4910MQ = 2.9GHz base clock, 3.8GHz stock 4-core turbo. Treat it as 3.8GHz i7. Same L3 cache size as desktop chips, etc. Max OC = 4.3GHz on 4 cores.
Intel i7-4940MX = 3GHz base clock, 3.9GHz 4-core turbo. Functionally equivalent to i7-4770K & 4790K. Unlocked multiplier and power limits; require more voltage than other mobile chips (as desktop chips do).
Intel i7-4790K = 4GHz base clock, 4.2GHz 4-core turbo. Unlocked multiplier and power limits.

4910MQ = $650 USD
4940MX = $1200 USD
4790K = $325 USD

EVERYBODY rips off the laptop market, so you need to pay lots to get half-decent gear.