Question / Help Not sure on a CPU
- Thread starter Kruzus
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lol oh really? I have no problems streaming games in 1080p or 720p@60fps using a cheap fx-8320. Jump off the bandwagon already!
DryRoastedLemon
Member
I will agree with you that i5 and i7 processors are great, but the following is just such a load of baloney:
It kind of sounds like you've fallen prey to the Intel marketing department and fanboys.
While Intel does provide the better products (newer, cooler-running, less power-hungry technology), AMD is absolutely fine and will perform more than adequately. You need to go as low as $79 to get the AMD X4 750K to get a CPU that on most fronts outperforms the processor that I have (Intel i5 750), and I can livestream with ease with that old thing. Now, it'd be advisable to spend a little more money and get a more powerful CPU, but I'm just painting a picture here. If all you're doing is basic livestreaming, there is absolutely no need to break the bank, nor are you limited to Intel.
Like vbdkv said, jump off the bandwagon already.
EDIT:
Also, who the hell asked you?
Don't answer questions that are obviously not directed at you, Cryonic. I was asking Kruzus, and to him that might not mean the same thing. He may have misinterpreted the x264 preset names, which is entirely reasonable. Also remember that in the OBS interface the fastest presets appear on top, and the slower presets are at the bottom. So when he says "lowest", I'm considering the UI design.
Again, I wasn't asking you, so don't answer the question. Kruzus is the one who is having a problem here, and I would like to see it solved. That's not going to happen if you are the one answering my questions directed at him. You are not OP, in case you had forgotten.
It kind of sounds like you've fallen prey to the Intel marketing department and fanboys.
While Intel does provide the better products (newer, cooler-running, less power-hungry technology), AMD is absolutely fine and will perform more than adequately. You need to go as low as $79 to get the AMD X4 750K to get a CPU that on most fronts outperforms the processor that I have (Intel i5 750), and I can livestream with ease with that old thing. Now, it'd be advisable to spend a little more money and get a more powerful CPU, but I'm just painting a picture here. If all you're doing is basic livestreaming, there is absolutely no need to break the bank, nor are you limited to Intel.
Like vbdkv said, jump off the bandwagon already.
EDIT:
Also, who the hell asked you?
Don't answer questions that are obviously not directed at you, Cryonic. I was asking Kruzus, and to him that might not mean the same thing. He may have misinterpreted the x264 preset names, which is entirely reasonable. Also remember that in the OBS interface the fastest presets appear on top, and the slower presets are at the bottom. So when he says "lowest", I'm considering the UI design.
Again, I wasn't asking you, so don't answer the question. Kruzus is the one who is having a problem here, and I would like to see it solved. That's not going to happen if you are the one answering my questions directed at him. You are not OP, in case you had forgotten.
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But if you want high quality streaming and if you have limited bandwith (3,9mbps here, cant go higher than 3000 bitrate without limiting games/other software), you can do this with a slower x264 preset.
AMD can do this too, but they are just not worth it for me. I´m also running a homestudio with the same PC - a nice cool & quiet (but powerful) rig is needed, i cant use the hot AMD CPUs.
Thats why i got only a R9 270X and used the saved money to get a faster CPU. My GPU was only 169€, my CPU - 284,90€ and it was worth it (specially with my older power supply - it was not enough for a highend GPU so i had to spend another 100€ to upgrade it).
Sure for basic livestreaming AMD will be fine, i5 will do the job too, but for heavy usage and maximum performance you have to go with Intel i7. And i`m not talking about the extreme series 6-cores, its just a usual i7 Haswell.
I had some AMD CPUs, my last one was the Phenom II X4 965BE with nice OC and it has done the job really good, but it was too hot and used to much power. I`m talking about my rig and how it works for me. If you are living in a different country or have different hardware for an upgrade (maybe you already have an AM3+ board), it can be completly different.
And people dont mind to spend 400-500€ on a GPU, but getting the fastest quadcore CPU (with open multi) for 280€ - its too much.
AMD is great for budget solutions where you want enough power without breaking the bank. But if you need the power to actually earn money, you get what ever is needed to save time and being creative :-)
AMD can do this too, but they are just not worth it for me. I´m also running a homestudio with the same PC - a nice cool & quiet (but powerful) rig is needed, i cant use the hot AMD CPUs.
Thats why i got only a R9 270X and used the saved money to get a faster CPU. My GPU was only 169€, my CPU - 284,90€ and it was worth it (specially with my older power supply - it was not enough for a highend GPU so i had to spend another 100€ to upgrade it).
Sure for basic livestreaming AMD will be fine, i5 will do the job too, but for heavy usage and maximum performance you have to go with Intel i7. And i`m not talking about the extreme series 6-cores, its just a usual i7 Haswell.
I had some AMD CPUs, my last one was the Phenom II X4 965BE with nice OC and it has done the job really good, but it was too hot and used to much power. I`m talking about my rig and how it works for me. If you are living in a different country or have different hardware for an upgrade (maybe you already have an AM3+ board), it can be completly different.
And people dont mind to spend 400-500€ on a GPU, but getting the fastest quadcore CPU (with open multi) for 280€ - its too much.
AMD is great for budget solutions where you want enough power without breaking the bank. But if you need the power to actually earn money, you get what ever is needed to save time and being creative :-)
DryRoastedLemon
Member
You keep advertising your rig and why it's so great for your purposes, but have you even considered Kruzus' needs, or what kind of user he is? I mean, you've been talking about how amazing your rig is for quite some time now, but the only reason you bring up for recommending your system is your personal experience with it, and not because they match up with Kruzus' needs. I mean, all I've been hearing from you is how great your system is for the stuff you do, while what we need to talk about is Kruzus' OBS settings and his livestreaming needs.
So let's instead await input from Kruzus. He may have just misunderstood the x264 presets, and might not even need an upgrade at all.
So let's instead await input from Kruzus. He may have just misunderstood the x264 presets, and might not even need an upgrade at all.
Yeah you`re right. I was helping people upgrading hardware for a while and most of them decided to go with new fast & cool/quiet hardware instead of messing around with old hardware try to squeeze more power or find the right settings to make it work. Sorry :-) I had a lot of problems with OBS and the stream quality in general while using AMD, got Intel and its working great now without even being close to hit the CPU limits.
Messing around with OBS can be tricky, specially with hardware thats a bit older. If Kruzus get the settings right and if he is happy with the performance/quality, its great. And if he wants an upgrade, we can take a look at it.
Messing around with OBS can be tricky, specially with hardware thats a bit older. If Kruzus get the settings right and if he is happy with the performance/quality, its great. And if he wants an upgrade, we can take a look at it.
Jollyriffic
Member
@Kruzus drop resolution to 720 or 540 resolution. the lower the less cpu.
also most people that stream in 1080 their stream looks overly compressed since the twitch video box is only about 540p in size anyways. how many people really even go max screen? not many unless your a female streamer and you've got creepers watching your stream.
then set your preset after the resolution change. while playing a game and streaming you want to keep your cpu usage down to the 85% usage for total cpu used.
in general,
1,000 - 2,000kbps = 480p
2,000 - 2,500kbps = 540p
3,000 - 3,500kbps = 720p
before you think/say but i want HD!
HD is NOT your resolution, its the quality of the video + kbps in relation to the size of the container (container being your resolution)
for example, streaming in 1080p @ 2,500kbps would look like crap when compared to 960x540 @ 2,500
its all about balance of kbps, preset, resolution.
i always try to explain it to people that dont understand that concept like taking a small box and a large box, fill the small box full with skittles, then dump it into the larger box. you're missing valuable area that needs filled up.
also most people that stream in 1080 their stream looks overly compressed since the twitch video box is only about 540p in size anyways. how many people really even go max screen? not many unless your a female streamer and you've got creepers watching your stream.
then set your preset after the resolution change. while playing a game and streaming you want to keep your cpu usage down to the 85% usage for total cpu used.
in general,
1,000 - 2,000kbps = 480p
2,000 - 2,500kbps = 540p
3,000 - 3,500kbps = 720p
before you think/say but i want HD!
HD is NOT your resolution, its the quality of the video + kbps in relation to the size of the container (container being your resolution)
for example, streaming in 1080p @ 2,500kbps would look like crap when compared to 960x540 @ 2,500
its all about balance of kbps, preset, resolution.
i always try to explain it to people that dont understand that concept like taking a small box and a large box, fill the small box full with skittles, then dump it into the larger box. you're missing valuable area that needs filled up.
I know what HD means, and I am not trying to stream in HD and all fancy. I want to stream so my viewers can watch it and decent quality, and me in game not laggy.
OBS Video setting: http://puu.sh/8qNic.png
It lags, in league and the game called Infestation Survivor Stories. It's sad that current cpu I have is not strong enough.. Shoulda spent more $$ on that intel.
It lags, in league and the game called Infestation Survivor Stories. It's sad that current cpu I have is not strong enough.. Shoulda spent more $$ on that intel.
Jollyriffic
Member
when streaming.
keep your stream video paused on the site and on obs right click where the preview window is and deselect "preview, enable view". both of these things will help save you a chunk of cpu
another option you can do is changing the games resolution. a lower resolution will suck up less usage.
in conjunction to that w/e the resolution of the game is, set that as the "custom resolution" under settings > video.
have you ran "jtvping" to also make sure you're on the best broadcast server? may as well fix up all the settings at one time :P you can google jtvping and you'll get a site called teamliquid download and run it. pick the server with the lowest ping and jitter.
keep your stream video paused on the site and on obs right click where the preview window is and deselect "preview, enable view". both of these things will help save you a chunk of cpu
another option you can do is changing the games resolution. a lower resolution will suck up less usage.
in conjunction to that w/e the resolution of the game is, set that as the "custom resolution" under settings > video.
have you ran "jtvping" to also make sure you're on the best broadcast server? may as well fix up all the settings at one time :P you can google jtvping and you'll get a site called teamliquid download and run it. pick the server with the lowest ping and jitter.
Boildown
Active Member
This thread is a mess.
First, while its true that an Intel i5 without hyperthreading is fine for most games, if you stream what you game, you DO want hyperthreading. It makes a massive difference, and its well worth the extra cost to get the i7 with hyperthreading. Anyone who tells you otherwise isn't taking the "streaming" part of the "streaming and gaming" equation into account. If you can't afford it, fine, but the extra $100 or whatever it costs to go from a 4670k to a 4770k IS going to do a lot for you when you stream.
Second, if you want help with your settings, post log files for streams where you did at least five minutes of high action gaming.
First, while its true that an Intel i5 without hyperthreading is fine for most games, if you stream what you game, you DO want hyperthreading. It makes a massive difference, and its well worth the extra cost to get the i7 with hyperthreading. Anyone who tells you otherwise isn't taking the "streaming" part of the "streaming and gaming" equation into account. If you can't afford it, fine, but the extra $100 or whatever it costs to go from a 4670k to a 4770k IS going to do a lot for you when you stream.
Second, if you want help with your settings, post log files for streams where you did at least five minutes of high action gaming.
Jollyriffic
Member
100% agree, anyone that would advise you to go with an i5 clearly isn't interested in quality video. you could get away with it if you're only console gaming, but even then you'd be able to have a much better looking stream with the i7.
if you're going to spend money on a system, you should do it right the first time. people that buy parts with the idea of "i can upgrade later" make my brain hurt. buy an i5 for say $250 or i7 for $350 (just random figures not actual) and then later get the i7, you've wasted $250.
if you've got a microcenter around you, $250 is all you'll pay for an i7-4770k.
make sure if you're going with a new cpu, to also get a good motherboard. one capable of overclocking and not crapping out on you. personally i'd go for the msi mpower (i've actually got one). stay far away from crap brands like biostar.
Jollyriffic
Member
well amd isn't all that bad. the problem is that your CPU is somewhat old.
i personally had a phenom x6 1090T that i streamed with. it was great for streaming console games like COD.
i'm currently on a i7-3770k overclocked to 4.5ghz and its doing very well for gaming and streaming. previous to this cpu, i was only streaming xbox so cant really compare the two processors.
if you want to be sure that you're going to be good to go, just stick to the i7 and grab the current line of them.
honestly the i7-4770k should last you a long time. just make sure to get a quality motherboard also, something like the msi mpower. i've got the z77 version of that motherboard. then get some good cooling for the cpu. the stock cooler that comes with it isn't able to cool that cpu while under a constant load.
i personally had a phenom x6 1090T that i streamed with. it was great for streaming console games like COD.
i'm currently on a i7-3770k overclocked to 4.5ghz and its doing very well for gaming and streaming. previous to this cpu, i was only streaming xbox so cant really compare the two processors.
if you want to be sure that you're going to be good to go, just stick to the i7 and grab the current line of them.
honestly the i7-4770k should last you a long time. just make sure to get a quality motherboard also, something like the msi mpower. i've got the z77 version of that motherboard. then get some good cooling for the cpu. the stock cooler that comes with it isn't able to cool that cpu while under a constant load.
DryRoastedLemon
Member
Seriously, you guys. My processor isn't even recommended anymore because it's so old (and isn't produced anymore). My processor gets about half the Passmark score that the i5 4570 gets, and I can stream most games at 30FPS at 720p using the Faster preset @ 2500kbps with zero problems. While you could obviously use slower presets to crank out a little more quality, the ratio between the CPU investment versus the quality you get back for it is incredibly lopsided.
When you actually do some reading up on research regarding x264, you'll find out several things. One of which is that most people often don't notice the visual difference between Fast(er) and Medium. Of course you are going to see it in still frames, but in motion the differences aren't as visible. The biggest jump in quality is perceived (and measured) when going from Veryfast to presets such as Faster and Fast. The latter two are generally good enough, as the CPU time investment and the quality you get out of it are generally well balanced. The guys behind x264 chose the Medium preset as the default for offline video encoding, and this produces videos of good quality. The visual differences between Fast and Medium are minor, with videos processed with the Medium preset showing a little more visual sharpness. The Slow preset does get some better scores, but I personally find this preset more applicable to offline video encoding in regards to the CPU investment.
Anyway, what I'm saying here is that my processor, the i5 750, can stream with the Faster preset at 30FPS with no problems, and it has half the Passmark score that the more modern i5 4570 gets. Sure, my CPU usage is relatively high, but I wasn't running into any major problems, and more importantly, there was no reduction in in-game performance. Note that when I do this I'm not just streaming. What I'm doing at the same time is:
But then again, you need to remember that even if you have a visually attractive stream, that's actually not what viewers come for most of the time. Viewers don't stay because of the superb visual quality of your video; they generally stay because you're delivering content that is relevant to them, because they like your streamer personality, and it helps if your video doesn't look like a JPEG compressed at quality = 0.
What I personally find most jarring here is that we're just recommending CPUs because of two reasons: 1) because of how high the CPU numbers are, and 2) because of hyperthreading. Note that none of this actually takes into consideration what kind of streamer Kruzus is, and you don't have to go for the best there is if you don't need the best.
That said, if you can get an i7 for a nice price (the $250 Jollyriffic mentioned, for instance, is a great price - and also the only price I would ever buy an i7 for if I ever wanted one) there's no reason to let that offer go unless you think that's a great chance to save even more money.
Nice reading material regarding x264:
http://blog.malayter.com/2010/12/presets-versus-quality-in-x264-encoding.html
http://www.videoquality.pl/preset-settings-x264-quality-compression-speed-test/
Oh well. You're probably going to buy an i7 anyway, and everone probably thinks I'm talking out of my arse. At least I said what I wanted to say.
When you actually do some reading up on research regarding x264, you'll find out several things. One of which is that most people often don't notice the visual difference between Fast(er) and Medium. Of course you are going to see it in still frames, but in motion the differences aren't as visible. The biggest jump in quality is perceived (and measured) when going from Veryfast to presets such as Faster and Fast. The latter two are generally good enough, as the CPU time investment and the quality you get out of it are generally well balanced. The guys behind x264 chose the Medium preset as the default for offline video encoding, and this produces videos of good quality. The visual differences between Fast and Medium are minor, with videos processed with the Medium preset showing a little more visual sharpness. The Slow preset does get some better scores, but I personally find this preset more applicable to offline video encoding in regards to the CPU investment.
Anyway, what I'm saying here is that my processor, the i5 750, can stream with the Faster preset at 30FPS with no problems, and it has half the Passmark score that the more modern i5 4570 gets. Sure, my CPU usage is relatively high, but I wasn't running into any major problems, and more importantly, there was no reduction in in-game performance. Note that when I do this I'm not just streaming. What I'm doing at the same time is:
- Playing a game
- Running a NGINX server so that a friend can stream to me
- VLC running in the background to look at my friend's stream
- Dxtory running in the background to capture my game (needed to synchronize my stream with my friend's)
- Firefox running in the background for chat
- Teamspeak running in the background so I can chat with another friend who's playing
- Voicemeeter running in the background to do some minor audio processing
- OBS streaming and recording it to disk for hours on end
But then again, you need to remember that even if you have a visually attractive stream, that's actually not what viewers come for most of the time. Viewers don't stay because of the superb visual quality of your video; they generally stay because you're delivering content that is relevant to them, because they like your streamer personality, and it helps if your video doesn't look like a JPEG compressed at quality = 0.
What I personally find most jarring here is that we're just recommending CPUs because of two reasons: 1) because of how high the CPU numbers are, and 2) because of hyperthreading. Note that none of this actually takes into consideration what kind of streamer Kruzus is, and you don't have to go for the best there is if you don't need the best.
That said, if you can get an i7 for a nice price (the $250 Jollyriffic mentioned, for instance, is a great price - and also the only price I would ever buy an i7 for if I ever wanted one) there's no reason to let that offer go unless you think that's a great chance to save even more money.
Nice reading material regarding x264:
http://blog.malayter.com/2010/12/presets-versus-quality-in-x264-encoding.html
http://www.videoquality.pl/preset-settings-x264-quality-compression-speed-test/
Oh well. You're probably going to buy an i7 anyway, and everone probably thinks I'm talking out of my arse. At least I said what I wanted to say.
Jack0r
The Helping Squad
Well, I can say that my older i5 2320 was not able to stream at 720p 30fps veryfast while trying to play bf3 or day-z or similar games (I mainly play shooter games). Now I got an i7 4770 and still notice a severe impact and fps dropping when doing a 720p30fps stream on veryfast, this time while playing bf4 or arma3. (I could use quicksync to do even 1080p60, but thats another topic)
My solution was to put the i5 into a box, and it can now encode 720p 30fps at the fast preset and will run at 50 to 80% of usage (clearly not enough room to play such games). 50% on a still picture, 80% when there is a lot of action on screen.
Not sure how you managed to do said things with your i5. But I could not reproduce that :)
The information about presets is correct, I wrote several guides trying to explain this to people and even made several graphic and video comparisons. If your cpu allows to go for medium preset, do it, but faster and fast are already very good, and a bit more bitrate makes a bigger effect than any cpu preset (in many cases).
So, not saying you are talking out of your arse, but most people I know had the same experience with their processors. After going for an upgrade to an i7 most of the got satisfied. Hence, I cannot recommend anything but a i7 4770 or upper.
My solution was to put the i5 into a box, and it can now encode 720p 30fps at the fast preset and will run at 50 to 80% of usage (clearly not enough room to play such games). 50% on a still picture, 80% when there is a lot of action on screen.
Not sure how you managed to do said things with your i5. But I could not reproduce that :)
The information about presets is correct, I wrote several guides trying to explain this to people and even made several graphic and video comparisons. If your cpu allows to go for medium preset, do it, but faster and fast are already very good, and a bit more bitrate makes a bigger effect than any cpu preset (in many cases).
So, not saying you are talking out of your arse, but most people I know had the same experience with their processors. After going for an upgrade to an i7 most of the got satisfied. Hence, I cannot recommend anything but a i7 4770 or upper.
Jollyriffic
Member
@DryRoastedLemon you make very valid points. but he is going to be upgrading from an old amd to something newer.
the i5 vs i7 on newegg is only a $90 difference. however with the i7 you're future proofing your system. thats my main goal with helping people. this way if you need the extra cpu, you've got it.
as an example: i wanted to get into cad before, but didn't really get into it till i had my i7.
also as a man, i follow the Tim the Tool Man motto; "more power!". i could have left my i7 at stock 3.5ghz but i went to 4.5 overclock just because its more lol.
the i5 vs i7 on newegg is only a $90 difference. however with the i7 you're future proofing your system. thats my main goal with helping people. this way if you need the extra cpu, you've got it.
as an example: i wanted to get into cad before, but didn't really get into it till i had my i7.
also as a man, i follow the Tim the Tool Man motto; "more power!". i could have left my i7 at stock 3.5ghz but i went to 4.5 overclock just because its more lol.