Question / Help Unstable FPS and high pixelation in FPS/Racing games

Elia1995

Elia1995

New Member
Ok, I dropped the frame rate to 30 fps to maintain the 720p resolution (I hope I can eventually push it to 60 in the future or perhaps sacrifice the resolution to 480p in order to have a smooth stream once Doom 4 gets released) and I set my cpu preset to "fast" with 2500 kb/s (nobody has talked about buffering so far since yesterday, so I'll keep it at 2500 until a few people experience issues).
I'm gonna make a quick test on an FPS game to see wheter or not it gets all blurry...

Ah yes, I also disabled "Use CFR" and I'm using CBR

About the filter, should I keep lanczos or use bicubic sharper ? (my CPU and GPU can sustain both without problems)
 
FerretBomb

FerretBomb

Active Member
720@60 starts around 2700-3000kbps, which will cause a large degree of buffering for many.

As far as 2500 is concerned, that's your call. Just bear in mind that many new viewers to a stream will not complain or say anything about buffering being an issue; they'll just leave for a stream they can watch smoothly, without saying a word.
It's only your regulars who will generally let you know if they're having an issue. If you want the best opportunity to grow, 2000 is the way to go.

Yep, I usually shoot for 60-80% CPU load if possible while streaming and actively gaming with fast action. The jump between Fast and Medium is pretty significant, as is the jump between Medium and Slow. But they come with a pretty hefty CPU cost as well.

CFR is only needed if you plan to edit your locally-recorded video with a 'picky' video editing suite (Sony Vegas being the most notorious for throwing a tantrum if CFR isn't on). It isn't needed for streaming, and can increase your duped frames rate, so unless you are recording locally as well and do plan to use an editor, it's a good idea to have it off.

Lanczos vs Bicubic is mostly personal preference. I find that Lanczos gives a better result for most modern games, while Bicubic is more effective on retro-games from the NES/SNES era (and stuff like Shovel Knight, which actively mimics that visual style).
 
Elia1995

Elia1995

New Member
I'm now experimenting between 1800 and 2000 bitrate (2 guys buffer at 2k but not at 1800, while almost all regulars that have seen me streaming these 2 days don't have issues neither at 2500 nor at 2000) and the overall quality is quite decent (720@30), I also tried 480@60 and 540@60 (540p is the latest downscale that lets me choose a filter, while from 480p downwards is bilinear only) but the stream looks nothing like 60 fps even on the binding of Isaac (I don't playback it while streaming, I watch it afterwards from my past broadcasts, except one time that I wanted to check the quality on the live itself from my mobile).
I guess the only thing I can do for now to get the minimum pixelation possible is to keep it at 720p on 30 FPS with 2k bitrate only, medium/fast cpu preset and main profile and change the filter depending on what I want to stream (ie. I want to stream Isaac, I set it to bicubic, I want to stream some HD game, I try lanczos until I find out myself which one looks better on what game).
Thank you all for your tips, guys !!! :D
 
D

dping

Active Member
Elia1995 said:
I'm now experimenting between 1800 and 2000 bitrate (2 guys buffer at 2k but not at 1800, while almost all regulars that have seen me streaming these 2 days don't have issues neither at 2500 nor at 2000) and the overall quality is quite decent (720@30), I also tried 480@60 and 540@60 (540p is the latest downscale that lets me choose a filter, while from 480p downwards is bilinear only) but the stream looks nothing like 60 fps even on the binding of Isaac (I don't playback it while streaming, I watch it afterwards from my past broadcasts, except one time that I wanted to check the quality on the live itself from my mobile).
I guess the only thing I can do for now to get the minimum pixelation possible is to keep it at 720p on 30 FPS with 2k bitrate only, medium/fast cpu preset and main profile and change the filter depending on what I want to stream (ie. I want to stream Isaac, I set it to bicubic, I want to stream some HD game, I try lanczos until I find out myself which one looks better on what game).
Thank you all for your tips, guys !!! :D
Click to expand...
you can get ahold of twitch on twitter. @twitchsupport or something. tell them viewers are buffering down at lower bitrates 2000 but for the most part, its the internet. its not an easy task to solve for everyone.
 
FerretBomb

FerretBomb

Active Member
If you are dropping frames, it's an issue with your upload speed.
If your viewers are buffering (and you aren't dropping any frames), it's an issue with their download speed, or connection/route to the Twitch video server.

So your connection can be fine; I've done extreme-mode testing and can hold 10mbps to Twitch all day. But next to no one could watch that; they'd be stuck in buffering hell constantly. So even if the connection on the streamer's end can support a rate, it's the viewers' rate that needs to be tailored toward as the chokepoint that you need to stay at or below. And you can't see when people are buffering, unless they tell you. And most won't, they'll just leave.
A year or two ago, Twitch released metrics showing that a majority of viewers can watch smoothly at 2000kbps, and that it just gets worse the higher you go... so 2000 is the de-facto non-partnered max target rate that should be used, and lower if your viewerbase is in the unlucky minority.

After that, you know how much bitrate you have to work with, and need to get the best compromise between resolution, smoothness of motion (framerate), and image quality (bits-per-pixel density). For 2000, 720p@30 and 480p@60 are the most common compromise points that stay near 0.1bpp density, which is the accepted standard; the lower you go, the worse the image quality. Generally you don't want to drop below the 0.07 or 0.05 range at worst, though a higher framerate is not a linear falloff, it definitely won't allow 720@60 at widely-watchable-without-buffering rates with any kind of pleasant image quality on medium to fast action games.
 
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Elia1995

Elia1995

New Member
Back when I used to stream with 1 mbit of upload (May 2015 - November 2015), I used 480p resolution with 15 to 30 FPS and around 750 kbps of bitrate....
the pixelation amount was about the same (and even worse, of course) of the one I now get on 720p with 30/60 FPS at 2k kbps of bitrate in very high motion scenes (such as "falling" cinematics, flashing colors, fades, quick camera movement in FPS games) when I use the lanczos filter.
Now I found a compromise and I found the best settings (earlier I streamed some TF2 and, taking a look at the final video on my past broadcasts, it looks very clean even when I quickly move the camera around)... 720p, 30 FPS, 2k kbps of bitrate and bicubic sharper filter instead of lanczos, apparently lanczos is one of the main culprits to cause high pixelation in fast paced scenes.
Perhaps I can use it (if ever...) when I get the partnership and I can shoot 10k bitrate without issues.
 
D

dping

Active Member
Elia1995 said:
Back when I used to stream with 1 mbit of upload (May 2015 - November 2015), I used 480p resolution with 15 to 30 FPS and around 750 kbps of bitrate....
the pixelation amount was about the same (and even worse, of course) of the one I now get on 720p with 30/60 FPS at 2k kbps of bitrate in very high motion scenes (such as "falling" cinematics, flashing colors, fades, quick camera movement in FPS games) when I use the lanczos filter.
Now I found a compromise and I found the best settings (earlier I streamed some TF2 and, taking a look at the final video on my past broadcasts, it looks very clean even when I quickly move the camera around)... 720p, 30 FPS, 2k kbps of bitrate and bicubic sharper filter instead of lanczos, apparently lanczos is one of the main culprits to cause high pixelation in fast paced scenes.
Perhaps I can use it (if ever...) when I get the partnership and I can shoot 10k bitrate without issues.
Click to expand...
No, just because partner does not mean you can abuse bitrate, but it does mean you can push the limit a little more. 3500 is their set rule but on occasion, larger partners overshoot this for 1080@60 streams which are kind of ridiculous.
 
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