Streaming Quality awful - decent PC setup and internet

[_H_]

Okay so I've tried and tried with this and I'm not having any luck. My stream quality on Youtube is absolute garbage despite having a decent CPU and internet. My max upload speed is 35mbps. I've been trying to stream at 1080p 60fps. The actual quality comes out at 480 at best. I play the game through my Playstation and run it through my capture card. So my PC is completely focused on the streaming side.

I've got an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
My processor is an AMD Ryzen 7 2700X Eight-Core Processor
16gb of Ram
Upload speed 35Mbps

I've tried multiple variations of settings including increasing my bitrate (to 20,000 which is overkill) and none of it seems to make my stream any better. I'm not lagging it's just really crappy quality my webcam as well as the game. I am a noob so I feel like I might be missing something but I have no idea what it is. I will confess I might be missing something pretty simple. I might just be in denial and my pc is crap.

 

[qhobbes]

1. Update your Windows 10 to 1909 or 2004 (if available) per https://obsproject.com/blog/five-simple-tips-for-new-streamers
2. The version of Windows you are running has a limitation which causes performance issues in hardware accelerated applications (such as games and OBS) if multiple monitors with different refresh rates are present. Your system's monitors have 2 different refresh rates (60 and 30), so you are affected by this limitation.

To fix this issue, we recommend updating to the Windows 10 May 2020 Update. Follow these instructions if you're not sure how to update. If you do not want to update, set both monitors to the same refresh rate or disconnect a monitor.
3. Update your GeForce drivers
4. In Windows 10 versions 1809 and newer, we recommend that "Game Mode" be enabled for maximum gaming performance. Game Mode can be enabled via the Windows 10 "Settings" app, under Gaming > Game Mode
5. Run OBS as Admin
6. When streaming (or uploading recorded video), having the YUV Color range set to "Full" will cause playback issues in certain browsers and on various video platforms. Shadows, highlights and color will look off. In OBS, go to "Settings -> Advanced" and set "YUV Color Range" back to "Partial".
7. Although you are not dropping any frames, be aware that In many cases, wireless connections can cause issues because of their unstable nature. Streaming really requires a stable connection. Often wireless connections are fine, but if you have problems, the first troubleshooting step would be to switch to wired. We highly recommend streaming on wired connections.

 

[_H_]

1. Update your Windows 10 to 1909 or 2004 (if available) per https://obsproject.com/blog/five-simple-tips-for-new-streamers
2. The version of Windows you are running has a limitation which causes performance issues in hardware accelerated applications (such as games and OBS) if multiple monitors with different refresh rates are present. Your system's monitors have 2 different refresh rates (60 and 30), so you are affected by this limitation.

To fix this issue, we recommend updating to the Windows 10 May 2020 Update. Follow these instructions if you're not sure how to update. If you do not want to update, set both monitors to the same refresh rate or disconnect a monitor.
3. Update your GeForce drivers
4. In Windows 10 versions 1809 and newer, we recommend that "Game Mode" be enabled for maximum gaming performance. Game Mode can be enabled via the Windows 10 "Settings" app, under Gaming > Game Mode
5. Run OBS as Admin
6. When streaming (or uploading recorded video), having the YUV Color range set to "Full" will cause playback issues in certain browsers and on various video platforms. Shadows, highlights and color will look off. In OBS, go to "Settings -> Advanced" and set "YUV Color Range" back to "Partial".
7. Although you are not dropping any frames, be aware that In many cases, wireless connections can cause issues because of their unstable nature. Streaming really requires a stable connection. Often wireless connections are fine, but if you have problems, the first troubleshooting step would be to switch to wired. We highly recommend streaming on wired connections.

Thank you I'll try all the suggestions above and let you know how it goes.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Okay so I've tried and tried with this and I'm not having any luck. My stream quality on Youtube is absolute garbage despite having a decent CPU and internet. My max upload speed is 35mbps.

Just a comment / food for thought
Another consideration I don't see mentioned is what is your actual available upload bandwidth (not an advertised theoretical maximum), and how stable is it? For example, in the US, Cox cable recently capped most home upload to 10Mb/s once COVID-19 home lockdowns were implemented. And you have to take into account anyone/anything else using bandwidth on your connection. And of course all the challenges that come with WiFi, if that applies in your case. Most consumer WiFi works like a walkie-talkie, and only most recent standards allow full duplex traffic. There are more things that can interfere with stable WiFi traffic than makes it work, hence comment about using a wired connection. If someone replies that streaming TV works (usually) over WiFi recognize that consumer Internet connections typically designed around download speed not upload, and the streaming providers all have buffering built in to accommodate jitter/lag issues over public Internet. Large Corporations have dedicated WiFi network engineers just to deal with all that can/does go wrong with WiFi.
I could write pages on technical reason of why WiFi has a challenge working in a situation that targets consistent throughput, jitter & lag. Suffice that WiFi usually works when data transmission rates can vary and user not notice, which is why most people don't notice the 'challenges'/contention/conflicts that arise. Those 'issues' get exponentially worse in areas with neighbors in WiFi range using their own cheap consumer setups, usually at default settings. It is not uncommon for people to insist their WiFi is fine, and in reality it is on the edge of breaking.

Also - If you end up saturating your upload link, increasing bitrate would make things worse. Though qhobbes mentions no dropped frames so I'm guessing that isn't the issue for you. There are charts out there that will tell you what bitrate is required for a given display resolution and frame refresh rate. My recommendation would be Start at that rate (or lower) until you get a decent output, then test by increasing bitrate leaving plenty of headroom from actual available bandwidth (not maximum) [and again realizing that available bandwidth may change during stream if others using the bandwidth] and knowing that increasing bitrate above certain levels is pointless [and potentially counter-productive. What that level is depends on the video itself and you setup.]

 

[_H_]

1. Update your Windows 10 to 1909 or 2004 (if available) per https://obsproject.com/blog/five-simple-tips-for-new-streamers
2. The version of Windows you are running has a limitation which causes performance issues in hardware accelerated applications (such as games and OBS) if multiple monitors with different refresh rates are present. Your system's monitors have 2 different refresh rates (60 and 30), so you are affected by this limitation.

To fix this issue, we recommend updating to the Windows 10 May 2020 Update. Follow these instructions if you're not sure how to update. If you do not want to update, set both monitors to the same refresh rate or disconnect a monitor.
3. Update your GeForce drivers
4. In Windows 10 versions 1809 and newer, we recommend that "Game Mode" be enabled for maximum gaming performance. Game Mode can be enabled via the Windows 10 "Settings" app, under Gaming > Game Mode
5. Run OBS as Admin
6. When streaming (or uploading recorded video), having the YUV Color range set to "Full" will cause playback issues in certain browsers and on various video platforms. Shadows, highlights and color will look off. In OBS, go to "Settings -> Advanced" and set "YUV Color Range" back to "Partial".
7. Although you are not dropping any frames, be aware that In many cases, wireless connections can cause issues because of their unstable nature. Streaming really requires a stable connection. Often wireless connections are fine, but if you have problems, the first troubleshooting step would be to switch to wired. We highly recommend streaming on wired connections.

I've done what you suggested. First off thank you so much for having a look at the log and giving me the advice. The only thing I haven't sorted was the WiFi.

Turns out my windows was missing a registry file hence why it wasn't updating automatically. That was a headache to fix let me tell you. I also updated all the drivers for my graphics card.

It has definitely improved my stream but my webcam quality is still a bit naff (although weirdly not when I switch to my interlude screen) it seems the bigger the picture the better it looks on steam.

So I want to try to sort out the WiFi issue. Unfortunately my router is a floor below and I would have to drill through the ceiling. Which I don't mind doing but I just need to exhaust every other avenue first. What are your thoughts on powerline adapters? Would they be as effective or close to as effective as wiring it straight in?

Thanks again for your help qhobbes

 

[_H_]

Just a comment / food for thought
Another consideration I don't see mentioned is what is your actual available upload bandwidth (not an advertised theoretical maximum), and how stable is it? For example, in the US, Cox cable recently capped most home upload to 10Mb/s once COVID-19 home lockdowns were implemented. And you have to take into account anyone/anything else using bandwidth on your connection. And of course all the challenges that come with WiFi, if that applies in your case. Most consumer WiFi works like a walkie-talkie, and only most recent standards allow full duplex traffic. There are more things that can interfere with stable WiFi traffic than makes it work, hence comment about using a wired connection. If someone replies that streaming TV works (usually) over WiFi recognize that consumer Internet connections typically designed around download speed not upload, and the streaming providers all have buffering built in to accommodate jitter/lag issues over public Internet. Large Corporations have dedicated WiFi network engineers just to deal with all that can/does go wrong with WiFi.
I could write pages on technical reason of why WiFi has a challenge working in a situation that targets consistent throughput, jitter & lag. Suffice that WiFi usually works when data transmission rates can vary and user not notice, which is why most people don't notice the 'challenges'/contention/conflicts that arise. Those 'issues' get exponentially worse in areas with neighbors in WiFi range using their own cheap consumer setups, usually at default settings. It is not uncommon for people to insist their WiFi is fine, and in reality it is on the edge of breaking.

Also - If you end up saturating your upload link, increasing bitrate would make things worse. Though qhobbes mentions no dropped frames so I'm guessing that isn't the issue for you. There are charts out there that will tell you what bitrate is required for a given display resolution and frame refresh rate. My recommendation would be Start at that rate (or lower) until you get a decent output, then test by increasing bitrate leaving plenty of headroom from actual available bandwidth (not maximum) [and again realizing that available bandwidth may change during stream if others using the bandwidth] and knowing that increasing bitrate above certain levels is pointless [and potentially counter-productive. What that level is depends on the video itself and you setup.]

Hey Lawrence,

So in terms of upload speeds I do get close to 35mbps when I do speed tests. However I concede that these might not be that accurate. It's the fastest upload speed available outside of London for a home broadband connection. I'd love to get faster although I think it's enough for what I need..

Interesting point about providers intentionally capping speeds due to covid. I'll need to look into this. It seems my stream is just crap on youtube though I have streamed on Twitch as a test and it was much better.

In terms of bitrate I would normally try and run it at 9k for my 1080p at 60fps that's the recommend settings I've found online.

I think it might be the WiFi that's causing some issues so I'm thinking of trying a powerline adapter as a wired connection would not be easy to do. Albeit not impossible though.

Thanks for your thoughts and advice. It's very much appreciated.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

I'd start with backing off the bitrate as you may find a stable connection, especially over WiFi, looks better than higher bitrate when connection can't support it
Beware Powerline, both speed limits, circuit breaker restrictions and more. For me, I have ran CAT5e throughout house many years ago [have my own crimper, tester, etc]. I have one downstairs office that I really would like to get a wired connection into, but would require drilling in wall, and running cable along electric and gas line.... so we've made due with WiFi so far.
As a quick test, assuming downstairs in a single residence unit (not someone else's router in apartment 1 floor down... which if talking PowerLine I would hope you realize wouldn't work in such a situation), is as a test, get a longer Ethernet cable and run it from router to computer upstairs and try that. If all works as desired/expected with wired, then you know WiFi is your challenge. I could go into a long WiFi troubleshooting article, but best to know WiFi is the issue before diving into WiFi technical details to check for interference, channel and frequency utilization, clients (an older, slower client can slow entire WiFi network down).. and lots, lots more
It may be that getting a new router, planning your frequency and channel allocations, client connections, etc may be simpler than running a cable depending on physical layout (for example, If concrete building/and especially floor, can be huge issue. Why? concrete has water and microwaves use 2.4Ghz for a reason (resonance of water) as does WiFi. Hence WiFi not travelling through concrete much due to signal attenuation by water. ) I mention as construction materials can be unexpected obstacle...

As for running an Ethernet cable, folks to ask/talk to are security alarm people. They run cables all across homes all the time, and know the tricks-of-the-trade for quick, functional, out-of-sight cable runs

 

[_H_]

I'd start with backing off the bitrate as you may find a stable connection, especially over WiFi, looks better than higher bitrate when connection can't support it
Beware Powerline, both speed limits, circuit breaker restrictions and more. For me, I have ran CAT5e throughout house many years ago [have my own crimper, tester, etc]. I have one downstairs office that I really would like to get a wired connection into, but would require drilling in wall, and running cable along electric and gas line.... so we've made due with WiFi so far.
As a quick test, assuming downstairs in a single residence unit (not someone else's router in apartment 1 floor down... which if talking PowerLine I would hope you realize wouldn't work in such a situation), is as a test, get a longer Ethernet cable and run it from router to computer upstairs and try that. If all works as desired/expected with wired, then you know WiFi is your challenge. I could go into a long WiFi troubleshooting article, but best to know WiFi is the issue before diving into WiFi technical details to check for interference, channel and frequency utilization, clients (an older, slower client can slow entire WiFi network down).. and lots, lots more
It may be that getting a new router, planning your frequency and channel allocations, client connections, etc may be simpler than running a cable depending on physical layout (for example, If concrete building/and especially floor, can be huge issue. Why? concrete has water and microwaves use 2.4Ghz for a reason (resonance of water) as does WiFi. Hence WiFi not travelling through concrete much due to signal attenuation by water. ) I mention as construction materials can be unexpected obstacle...

As for running an Ethernet cable, folks to ask/talk to are security alarm people. They run cables all across homes all the time, and know the tricks-of-the-trade for quick, functional, out-of-sight cable runs

Hi Lawrence,

Thanks for your response. Agree with everything you're saying and the more I looked at a powerline the more I realised it wasn't worth it. My WiFi is is a floor below but the signal is really good. All tests I do come out higher than what I'm meant to be getting. I'm guessing the only issue is the occasional drop which might be what is messing things up. I'm not against drilling my wall and running a ethernet cable down through the wall but I'd like to do it as a last resort. It's all my house so I think you're idea of testing it first is a really good one. I'll get a long enough ethernet cable and do that. Or I suppose I could just set up my pc downstairs to test it ‍

I tried different bitrates earlier 3000, 4500 and 6000 all of which produce pretty much the same result. Would it be worthwhile resetting obs and then uninstalling and reinstalling it?

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

I tried different bitrates earlier 3000, 4500 and 6000 all of which produce pretty much the same result. Would it be worthwhile resetting obs and then uninstalling and reinstalling it?

Based on @qhobbes reply, I'd guess your OBS setup is fine, with his recommended adjustments. Resetting OBS seems unlikely to change anything.
As I don't do gaming, I'm not really in a position to offer anything constructive specific to such streaming. But in general, I'd back off what you are trying to stream to get video and audio quality where you'd like it, then increase from there. So maybe back off 60fps for the moment and try just 30fps while on WiFi?

An occasional drop while using WiFi would not be unexpected, especially if your house isn't away from neighbors access points, and/or you haven't carefully coordinated channel utilization with them [and who does that], etc. Helping would be to carefully controll (preferably turned off) other WiFi clients in your own house, especially older 802.11b/g clients (like eReaders, etc). Also, there is the firmware and specific settings on your home router/access point. Some (most?) consumer grade routers are known to have outsourced, piss-poor quality, code that can 'struggle' depending on circumstance (and a consistent video stream has been and will remain a struggle for WiFi until MU-MIMO or similar becomes more prevalent). There are LOTS of variables that come into play, so not practical do write up a short,practical, effective WiFi troubleshooting guide
Also, realize that the problem could be your access point/router itself, or ISP modem (though unlikely).. however, first eliminate WiFi as possible culprit (ie wired connection) before consider these other potential source of inconsistent throughput

 

[Verner]

YouTube requires native or upscale 1440p for a good picture. Try it - you will be pleasantly surprised, OBS can do it. The main thing is that the computer can do it.

 

[_H_]

Okay so update. I have done everything @qhobbes has suggested including a wired connection and I'm still having some issues. I suppose I could scale back and try 30fps and a lower bitrate and work up from there but I should have the capacity to run it at 60fps at 1080p without any issues. The game I'm testing it out on is Warzone. I've got a sony A6000 running through a cam link and a few overlays.

Could it possibly be the overlays? @Verner I'll try that but I feel like if it's struggling with 1080 at 60fps it might not work.

@Lawrence_SoCal I've eliminated wifi as the issue as I've tested it with an ethernet cable. I do have to say though I think I will properly install the Lan cable anyway just in terms of the long term it's probably a good idea. So perhaps it's an issue with the router? I've got the standard router that came with the internet provider which is Virgin Media in the UK. It's an arris tg2492lg

Btw thank you all for your help/suggestions they are very much appreciated

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Again... no experience with gaming and associated. so... you are warned ;^)
However, as a very experienced IT professional, basic troubleshooting recommendations of eliminating variables, getting to known good point applies,
So strip down config to something much simpler, get to a point with a quality stream that you like, then increase/adding things back in until it breaks (and recognizing the last piece (overlay, add-in, plug-in, filter, whatever) you add when things break may not be the cause [rather interaction with prior piece]).
For example, I'd eliminate the camlink and test streaming without it (remove source, or at least disable in OBS). Same with some of (all?) the overlays. ie KISS (keep it simple, ...)
Now that you have eliminated WiFi as definite problem cause, time to dig deeper into your specific OBS setup.

 

[qhobbes]

1. The version of Windows you are running (1909) has a limitation which causes performance issues in hardware accelerated applications (such as games and OBS) if multiple monitors with different refresh rates are present. Your system's monitors have 2 different refresh rates (60 and 30), so you are affected by this limitation.

To fix this issue, we recommend updating to the Windows 10 May 2020 Update. Follow these instructions if you're not sure how to update. If you do not want to update, set both monitors to the same refresh rate or disconnect a monitor.

 

[Verner]

I have 1070 and it is too weak for 1440p stream. If we are talking about playing from a computer. In case of processing the stream from the console, there should be no problems.

I am streaming at 1440p 25000 bitrate with a second Quadro p400 card. On YouTube, NOTHING will help you get a high-quality picture, except for upscale at 1440p.

Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2019 | COD Warzone #66

Поддержка канала (текстовое или голосовое сообщение на стрим, стикеры и заказ музыки): (RUB): http://www.donationalerts.ru/r/gedeonsimonovich (PayPal /...

www.youtube.com

This is an example. The game itself is highly pixelated and contains a lot of detail. The best quality can only be achieved when streaming from an RTX card or processor (second computer).

 

[Verner]

Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2019 | COD Warzone #65

Поддержка канала (текстовое или голосовое сообщение на стрим, стикеры и заказ музыки): (RUB): http://www.donationalerts.ru/r/gedeonsimonovich (PayPal /...

www.youtube.com

Simply put. 1440p ~ 20,000 bitrate is a must for a good picture Youtube. Further quality levels are ascending.

1. AMD cards
2. GTX
3. RTX, starting from 1650 super, 1660 and 20xx series.
4. Processor. Optimally for 2 pc. But in case of the console, you can try streaming at 1440p from processor. You need to choose a preset that will give good quality and will not overload processor

 

[Verner]

I'm surprised that on the official OBS forum people do not advise, on YouTube, to try 1440p in the first place. Because 1080p has been encoded for the first time in poor quality right during the stream for 2 or more years. And the viewer sees about 4000 - 7000 bitrates. 1440p gives the viewer about 10,000 - 12,000 bitrates. The second transcoding gives a slightly higher recording quality after full processing of the stream.

At 1440p it makes no sense for streamer to increase bitrate from videocard to more than 20,000, this does not lead to a better picture for viewer. But 2k gives an even better picture than 1440p. These are cunning YouTube conversion algorithms, which are not written anywhere in the official documentation, but are easily verified by experience.