Question / Help Real 1080p@60fps capture card.

[zyxep]

Hi.

I am just look on the market to see what there is.

Many companies (smaller ones) say they can live stream 1080p@60fps like AverMedia but many reports say that it's crap.

What card would be a good investment if i would build a streaming PC, something like
i7-4990k (devil's canyon).
8GB ram
not a heavy GPU
Then the capture card i refer to here
and maybe in the end a hardware audio card connected to a hardware mixer.

i am currently looking at BlackMagic, https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink maybe.
But i talked with a professional video production company and they said blackmagic wasn't the greatest in their opinion.

 

[Sapiens]

I'd recommend not streaming at 1080p60 at all, which would probably negate the need to buy a capture card capable of outputting 1080p60. Flash handles it poorly and it looks bad at watchable bitrates.

That said your best bets for a capable capture card would be importing a Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 (if you have an Intel or Renesas USB 3.0 controller) or SC-512N1-L/DVI from Solaris Japan, or keeping an eye out for a used Datapath card on eBay.

 

[zyxep]

I'd recommend not streaming at 1080p60 at all, which would probably negate the need to buy a capture card capable of outputting 1080p60. Flash handles it poorly and it looks bad at watchable bitrates.

That said your best bets for a capable capture card would be importing a Micomsoft XCAPTURE-1 (if you have an Intel or Renesas USB 3.0 controller) or SC-512N1-L/DVI from Solaris Japan, or keeping an eye out for a used Datapath card on eBay.

So it would be best for everyone to switch to HTML5 video instead of flash for performance ? (pointing at Hitbox & Twitch).

I have seen those in another thread, and i can't Japanese and can't find any good information about those card so my trust isn't that good at those.

 

[Sapiens]

Both the XCAPTURE-1 and SC-512N1-L/DVI are highly regarded, a Google search should turn up as much. Drivers are available in English and easy enough to find on the Micomsoft website even if you can't read Japanese.

 

[Videophile]

In general for video production of any kind, the better looking the source materiel is, the better the end material looks.

So best case here would be a uncompressed capture card, like the ones Sapiens mentioned. For streaming, both work, however having used both, I recommend the SC-512N. Less stuff can go wrong over the PCI bus.

 

[FerretBomb]

Most here know that I'm a pretty big proponent of the SC-512N1-L/DVI, and for good reason.
It's an awesome card, and after purchasing a Datapath VisionRGB, I've upgraded the SC-512 to my personal 'best available capture card for livestreaming', full-stop.

Mostly as the Datapath cards only capture DVI/HDMI, and I didn't realize before that they also don't capture audio... which can be a real pain in the butt to split out from HDMI and feed in via a Line In port in the first place, much less to then re-sync it with the video.

So yeah. The SC-512 can capture true 1080@60, accept almost any input you can throw at it (including 240i retro console video) and performs speedily. Only problems are a lack of on-card HDCP stripping, and that on switching video modes (looking at you PS3 menu vs in-game!) it can audio desync or develop about an extra 20-70ms of capture delay. Easily fixed by swapping to another scene to re-init the card, but that also means it can't be set as a Global Source for smooth transitions.

Still hoping that @Jim or one of the other coders will implement a right-click 'reset/restart source' context menu setting for Global sources, which would act as a quick band-aid for this (and webcams that can glitch out similarly).

 

[dodgepong]

The main reason I lean toward the XCAPTURE-1 is for HDMI audio capture. With the SC-512, you have to use an HDMI->DVI adapter, and somehow split the audio beforehand to add that as a separate input. But they are both great cards with nearly identical functionality and capability.

 

[Videophile]

The main reason I lean toward the XCAPTURE-1 is for HDMI audio capture. With the SC-512, you have to use an HDMI->DVI adapter, and somehow split the audio beforehand to add that as a separate input. But they are both great cards with nearly identical functionality and capability.

The adapter comes with the card. Seperate input? Its seen as the cards device audio.

 

[dodgepong]

Oh interesting, I didn't know they made an adapter than can carry stereo audio over DVI. Good to know.

 

[Muf]

Oh interesting, I didn't know they made an adapter than can carry stereo audio over DVI. Good to know.

HDMI is just DVI-D with a different connector. The audio is not routed over special pins, they're just packets that make up part of the digital TMDS bitstream along with the video.

 

[Boildown]

So yeah. The SC-512 can capture true 1080@60, accept almost any input you can throw at it (including 240i retro console video) and performs speedily. Only problems are a lack of on-card HDCP stripping, and that on switching video modes (looking at you PS3 menu vs in-game!) it can audio desync or develop about an extra 20-70ms of capture delay.

Well now that you have a Datapath card, you might try getting one of the DVI / Component adapters: http://www.datapath.co.uk/products/accessories-a-cables/cables and run Component out of your PS3 to your RGB-E2 instead. Because HDCP can't be sent over Component. Been meaning to get one myself, but haven't gotten around to it yet. They should be cheap, but I haven't contacted Datapath yet to find out if its a custom adapter or if any ol' DVI to Component adapter will work.

I've never had an audio / video de-sync issue with my Datapath capture cards, by the way. I just planned to output audio from my game PC to my stream PC's sound card's line-in in my initial design, and it works great (even when I used an Avermedia capture card, I did it this way).

That said, if you don't catch a deal on Ebay, the Datapath cards are way too overpriced to compete with the Micomsoft ones. And for antique console capture, the Micomsoft devices seem to have every input you could possibly want.

Best part about the Datapath cards by contrast is they'll do any resolution and framerate that doesn't exceed their pixel clock, rather than being stuck to the standard/typical resolutions and framerates. 1440p shouldn't be out of reach for the newer ones, for example, or the new super-wide 21:9 aspect ratio.

 

[Muf]

Well now that you have a Datapath card, you might try getting one of the DVI / Component adapters: http://www.datapath.co.uk/products/accessories-a-cables/cables and run Component out of your PS3 to your RGB-E2 instead. Because HDCP can't be sent over Component. Been meaning to get one myself, but haven't gotten around to it yet. They should be cheap, but I haven't contacted Datapath yet to find out if its a custom adapter or if any ol' DVI to Component adapter will work.

You should have received two DVI to VGA adapters, one DVI to component adapter and one DVI to HDMI adapter with your VisionRGB-E2 card. If you bought it from eBay and only received the bare card, any old adapter from a random Hong Kong seller on eBay will do, as long as it connects the Y signal to the G pin on the DVI connector, the Cb(U) signal to the B pin, and the Cr(V) signal to the R pin (this is standard). You can use the same adapter to connect a sync-on-green RGB signal that uses separate BNC cables for R, G, and B; you just need three short BNC to RCA cables (the standard BNC to RCA adapters are too thick to fit the adapter).

 

[Boildown]

Thanks Muf, that's good info, just what I was looking for. (All my Datapath cards were bare from Ebay without the adapters).

Do you know if one of the connections doubles as Composite? I've seen that on other devices. If it does it would make the Datapath pretty competitive with other devices for retro console capture, assuming it handles their signals as well as it handles everything modern.

 

[FerretBomb]

Well now that you have a Datapath card, you might try getting one of the DVI / Component adapters: http://www.datapath.co.uk/products/accessories-a-cables/cables and run Component out of your PS3 to your RGB-E2 instead. Because HDCP can't be sent over Component.

No need, I have an HDMI "splitter" that just happens to break HDCP and send out non-encrypted video. Not bad for $20 off Amazon, and it delivers perfect quality video... whereas the component cables (which I also have, mostly for my PS2) can suffer from a degree of ghosting and halo.
I guess I could run audio off the component cables to a line-in, but that'd still only cover my PS3; anything HDMI-only will be out of luck as the E2 can't capture the baked-in audio, and I don't have a component to DVI adapter for retro consoles (much less composite to DVI).

I've never had an audio / video de-sync issue with my Datapath capture cards, by the way. I just planned to output audio from my game PC to my stream PC's sound card's line-in in my initial design, and it works great (even when I used an Avermedia capture card, I did it this way).

That said, if you don't catch a deal on Ebay, the Datapath cards are way too overpriced to compete with the Micomsoft ones. And for antique console capture, the Micomsoft devices seem to have every input you could possibly want.

I have. I've been trying to sync up my E2 with my on-board line-in, and it's been nothing but a pain in the neck. Video rate drift along with some long-standing audio issues (microstutter/mutes, where audio disappears for a split second) that persist no matter the audio input source.

Yeah, I'm just hoping that the SDK I found for a card using the same components as the Micomsoft will pan out, and that we might actually see a direct-capture plugin for it as well. Possibly to eliminate the mode-switch desync, and get rid of the DirectShow overhead. I'd pointed @paibox at it, but haven't heard back since then, even if it'd be potentially viable... and that was back in July.

I still stand by my statement though. In my opinion, the Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI is the best capture card currently available on the market, for livestreaming; flexibility, versatility, quality, and price.

 

[Muf]

Do you know if one of the connections doubles as Composite? I've seen that on other devices. If it does it would make the Datapath pretty competitive with other devices for retro console capture, assuming it handles their signals as well as it handles everything modern.

Yes and no. You can hook up a composite signal to the G/Y pin of the Vision input, but you will get a green-on-black image with a checkerboard pattern, similar to what early colour transmissions on black-and-white TV sets looked like. The card doesn't decode the composite signal, but it will sync to it and display some form of picture.

I've used the Ambery composite to RGB converter with my Datapath card, but sadly the Ambery conforms the sync timings to either NTSC or PAL, so it converts 240p to 480i, negating the advantages of having a card that natively handles 240p.