Question / Help Optimizing Stream

[forsakeNXE]

Hey Guys!

As you has helped me already with a sound problem (much thanks therefore once again !) I though I could give it a shot and ask you for some help with my Stream.

At the moment I have this rig:
i5-750 @ 3,4 GHZ OCed
GTX 570 Black Edition
1920*1080 @ 120 Hz

Internet:


Alright so all drivers up to date, temps alright everything setup :)

Settings in obs:
Quality 5
Max Bitrate: 520 -> higher than that gives me ingame delay
Buffersize: 480
Audio: AAC 96 Bitrate

Broadcast to Frankfurt as I live in german and the ping from the speedtest is to frankfurt, too.

Resolution: 960/540 which is 1/4 of my acutall size so that seems logically @ 30 FPS.

CPU preset: veryfast


So on these settings everything runs relativly smooth and responsive. My question though is where i could increse the quality (maybe more fps etc.). Especially out of my 1mb/s uploadspeed i am barely utilizing half of it but get delay if i get higher but maybe there is some more room somewhere else.

If there is nothing to improve I am happy as well but though that i may give it a shot :)

Thanks alot!

 

[anhdvu]

You can raise the quality, add Tune, and I cannot think of anything else. With that limited upstream, you can't really increase the visual quality.

 

[ruxxar]

Also, you should decrease the encoding preset until you hit your CPU limit. Your preset is at Veryfast. try going down to faster/fast/medium. Take each step and check until you sit about 90% CPU utilization.

 

[hilalpro]

Quality 5 >> 0

Max Bitrate: 520 -> higher than that gives me ingame delay make this
Buffersize: 480 <

change those to
1000/1000 << and use cfosspeed to set the game to the highest priority (doesn't matter if you're going slightly past your max upload rate because of other settings)

CPU preset: veryfast is already optimal so don't change it

and lastly about the fps, your upload speed is too low to consider 45 or 60 fps before looking at your resolution.. try 1280x720@30 and see if its watchable with no frame drops at high motion scenes

 

[Muf]

Quite simply, don't listen to hilalpro. If your max upload is 970kbit/s then there is no way you are going to be able to stream 1096kbit/s. If not in theory, then definitely not in practice. Also setting quality to 0 is going to cause massive bitrate spikes during high motion.

A bitrate/buffer setting you can cautiously try is this:

Bitrate: 800
Buffer: 300

This is a bitrate your connection should be able to sustain in theory (and the low buffer will prevent spikes), but practice may be different. We're also leaving very little bitrate for game traffic. Try increasing your send buffer if you have problems sustaining that bitrate, and decrease your bitrate if upload saturation makes your game unplayable. Right now the IFD (frame dropping) algorithm is very trigger-happy, so keep a close eye on your dropped frames counter.

 

[hilalpro]

simply put. you can achieve 1000/1000 + +100 on your 993.28 Kbps line with the settings that i specified and cfosspeed will help you with the latency in game.

 

[Warchamp7]

simply put. you can achieve 1000/1000 + +100 on your 993.28 Kbps line with the settings that i specified and cfosspeed will help you with the latency in game.

That's wrong. A 1000/1000 setup has the potential to spike up to 2000kbps, which he certainly can't do, and would result in dropped frames.

In fact, what you suggested means having OBS try to maintain an average bitrate of 1000Kbps, and his tests indicate a max bitrate of around 993.28Kbps. The problem with that should be pretty apparent

 

[Muf]

993.28 Kbps line

1 mbit = 1000 kbit

look it up son

 

[hilalpro]

that's not the line speed grand ma

 

[hilalpro]

simply put. you can achieve 1000/1000 + +100 on your 993.28 Kbps line with the settings that i specified and cfosspeed will help you with the latency in game.

That's wrong. A 1000/1000 setup has the potential to spike up to 2000kbps, which he certainly can't do, and would result in dropped frames.

In fact, what you suggested means having OBS try to maintain an average bitrate of 1000Kbps, and his tests indicate a max bitrate of around 993.28Kbps. The problem with that should be pretty apparent

stop talking theoretically you've never even been close to your max because the game latency usually keep you from it.. or you have too much upload speed ether way you're not in the position.

and even if you did not all the lines have the same flow/quality some support real time packet flow others are "best effort" kind of lines and some are throttled. or throttled when it comes to rtp

give it a try then see how it goes

vbvmaxrate & vbvbufsize are not the only factors in controlling the a average bitrate fyi

 

[Muf]

stop talking theoretically you've never even been close to your max

I know the fine details of squeezing every last ounce of bitrate/quality out of a piss poor ADSL connection, and Warchamp is correct in what he says.

 

[Warchamp7]

Ya caught me too buddy

 

[hilalpro]

if you can't do 1000/1000 with no frame drops on veryfast and 0 quality (crf30 or worse) with the help of traffic shaping then you probably have a trash/busy/ non manageable line and shouldn't be using speedtest.net as a measurement for your speed/service because you have bigger problems to get those rtp or tcp packets fast with no loss's.

 

[Muf]

I win the shittiest line pissing contest \o/

 

[TanGeng]

Actually I'd give it to WarChamp - only 72% compared to peers.

And on that I beat you all: 69%

Deep packet inspection? Really?
I'd like to know if forsakeXNE understands personal internet traffic well enough for that.

MUF definitely wins :oops: slower than 77% haha

 

[forsakeNXE]

I do not exactly understand what you want to say with:

I'd like to know if forsakeXNE understands personal internet traffic well enough for that.

Is there anything else except of my upload/dl speed?

btw: thanks for all those tipps gonna try those in the next days and will report back :)

Edit:

So the 800 /300 did not work out (too much delay) but the lower buff size allowed me to go for 600/300 which is nice :)

Will try the cfos thing next but it costs money so i most likely won't stick with it.

Oh yeah btw: For what is the buffer exactly for?

 

[TanGeng]

So Warning Big Wall o' Text Incoming

Standard ISP QoS

Spoiler

Most ISP meter and bandwidth for users by their source/destination IP, source/destination mac address, or service classification. Service classification (CoS) is usually reserved for uses like VoIP because voice applications are strict on timing. A choppy voice stream is nearly unintelligible. An ISP that also offers VoIP will classify voice packets differently from ordinary data packets. The network infrastructure will reserve data transmit and receive opportunities whenever it is possible and transmit the packets with higher priority when it is not.

CoS classification is a parameter of 802.3 header (L2) and it's a parameter owned by your ISP. They handle it entirely within their own network edge (edge: from your ISP provided modem into Internet Backbone) and all outside CoS taggings are purged. It is not entirely end-to-end QoS but does guarantee QoS at the edge. CoS is an L2 so it's a low cost QoS parameter. Source and destination IPs are within the L3 packet header and is also a low cost QoS check. Source and destination mac-address is in the L2 packet header and is a low cost QoS check. However, this is very limited in capability because it can only be applied for the last hop of Internet routing (last hope: home modem to its most immediate edge device).

(ISP/other) DPI QoS

Spoiler

DPI QoS is a form of traffic shaping that is based on unwrapping the Internet packets to the application layer (L7)inspection. This expensive form of packet inspection is featured in internet taps (Wire Tapping - Legal Intercept), in the infrastructure of the GFW (Great Firewall of China), and in past traffic shaping limits on P2P in the Canada. Application layer inspection is stateful and remembers TCP session information. It understands the role any one single packet plays in the application flow and then can selectively drop, prioritize, or forward the packets based on the end goal of DPI. DPI QoS is both very expensive and very intrusive. Your ISP will be able to data mine, application throttle, packet block, and create a detailed traffic profile.

Personal Traffic Shaping
Cfosspeed is DPI QoS on your personal computer. It does not affect the line from your modem to your ISP. Instead the Cofsspeed injects itself into your network driver and does DPI on all your incoming and outgoing packets. Mostly, it has influence on the order of outgoing packets, but may fast-path processing on some incoming packets. Some incoming packets like TCP Acks have influence over transmission of outgoing packets.

DPI traffic shaping requires a good understanding of internet usage. For example, what kind of traffic do you want to make top priority, what kind of traffic do you want to have guarantee, what kind of traffic would you tolerate network starvation, what kind of traffic would you tolerate lag or low priority delivery, etc. It also means that you should understand what kind of traffic profile needs your applications require for optimum performance. Then you set the traffic shaper to do enforce such a traffic profile. At the very end, your traffic profiles will interact with each other to add up to the line to your ISP. This might result in negative interaction. For example, your stream upload could crowd out your game Internet needs and any other internet traffic.

Cfosspeed itself has a flaw in that it appears to be doing the DPI at a single computer. Traffic shaping is best done globally over all network devices. For most users, it would be the Internet gateway, the router. At any one single computer, you'll still get unwanted interference from other computers or mobile devices on your network whenever they wake up for internet access.

/end WoT

 

[hilalpro]

nice post :) i can't believe that i've read all of that.

i kinda have to say a couple of things on my part.

from the modem to isp side..a custom router option for qos is not the optimal option for exchanging compressed video packets over the internet because although you might manage to prioritize lets say the rtmp protocol the traffic would still not go over on real time. and rtmp is a real time protocol

the fastest and guaranteed service when it comes to real time is cbr, cbr has the least latency but not ideal for the variable video bitrate since the flow keeps changing and gets complex to calculate

that's when rt-vbr comes in handy . with this the packets are still exchanged in real time but the connection would be be able to handle burst in bitrate way better while sustaining a cell rate.

btw, Cfosspeed is not a 1 computer traffic shaper. you can have it on every computer on your lan and then prioritize your connections as long as its on cooperative mode the shaping works on a lan scale.

so in conclusion shaping your own lan and having the packets go on real time is a nice setup for online games streamers. as long as your isp don't throttle the rtmp protocol (having enough bandwidth reserved) but still support rt-vbr service.

 

[forsakeNXE]

hi tan,

i understood what you are saying but can't really do anything with these information.

For the dumbest user: downloading cfos + settings sc2 to high priority = "intelligent" adjusting of my internet usage so sc2 does always gets enough and stream gets the rest.

Am I right?

Sorry for not really crediting your work but i have almost none insight in this kinda stuff even though i understood it "from reading" so to say^^

 

[alex_bababu]

I live in Germany, in fact BaWü, as well and I use the Amsterdam server, since i always had problems with Frankfurt.
Btw: Dont understand why your KabelBW upload is so bad. Shouldnt it be better?