Question / Help Optimizing Stream Quality

[Kairu]

So first off lets get hardware specs, logs and vods posted: Vods and matching logs will be at the bottom of the post.

DXDiag:

CPU-Z:

I could probably overclock further, but my temps were very bad during Aida64 testing. They're fine idle and even under 100% load while streaming in the vods below.
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So the main reason I'm posting this is because I'm really trying to optimize the quality of my stream. Other people streaming the same thing seem to get a much better quality stream, and I don't like mine being so poor. I can handle a higher bitrate, however, I can't seem to handle x264 encoding without my CPU usage suffering. In some of the vods below, I included task manager to show I'm passing 95% cpu usage. When that happens it seems to throttle my applications, causing bad performance.

So here's an example of a popular streamer playing the same game: Example: http://www.twitch.tv/b4nny/v/5746993 @58 minutes for match start. I've PM'd about quality options but no response yet. It looks like quicksync, which compared to mine at even higher bitrate: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5773568 is just plain frustrating.

So I was hoping that maybe someone more experienced than I am could maybe help optimize my settings. Maybe something I've missed that might give me increased quality without suffering in-game performance. Or if I'm just SOL until upgrading CPU, just knowing I'm wasting my time trying to get a better quality would be good too.

Thanks for any help in advance.
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Vods 1+2 are from today. I was told by a friend that increasing buffer size may help quality in rapid motion, so I tried 2x and 4x my bitrate as my buffer size, seems to have no effect.
Vod 3 is x264, 3500, veryfast
Vod 4 is x254, 3500, superfast
Vod 5 is QS, 3500, best quality
Vod 6 is x264, 2500, veryfast
Vod 7 is x264 2500 veryfast, 480p

Vod 1: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5770653
Vod 2: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5770945
Vod 3: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5773328 (skip to 2:30)
Vod 4: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5773483
Vod 5: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5773568
Vod 6: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5773642
Vod 7: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5773769

Vods all from today in chronological order, logs added also chronological

 

[D2ultima]

First off, you need to start adding some compression to your video. Quicksync does not do compression well. "Faster" should hugely improve the quality of your stream with minimal CPU performance impact from VeryFast. If using default settings does not give you the same quality that other streamer gets then he has more compression than you.

 

[Kairu]

I have performance issues using VeryFast to the point that I have to lower it to SuperFast. Vod3/Vod6 show CPU usage. Anytime it goes red, the game will run at 25-50% effectiveness, and isn't really playable anymore. That's on x264 though.

On QuickSync that dropdown box is set to "Best quality". Am I wrong in assuming "Best speed" would trade off quality in order to make the encoding process faster? Better yet: http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5777205 best speed causes even more picture blur than other settings.

I'm not sure if there is a setting anywhere to directly effect "compression" that I can tell at least, but you referenced the quality presets.

 

[D2ultima]

quality presets are "compression". The slower you go, the more compression it adds, and the better quality you get out of your bitrate, but your CPU pays the price with extra load.

You're streaming with an i5 and you're trying to get great quality out while having excess power to run your game full bore. That doesn't happen. You would likely need an i7, or to overclock your CPU more with a better cooler for that to happen. You could simply try setting OBS to cores #2, 3 and 4 instead of all four cores and see if giving TF2 the 1st core helps its performance. Either that, or you'll need to reduce your quality. Also, adding bitrate increases the load on the CPU, especially with more compression added. So someone streaming with "faster" at 2500 bitrate with your setup doesn't mean you can use "faster" at 3500 bitrate and not run into CPU limits, for example. Of course the 3500 bitrate one likely would look better due to sheer bitrate, but it's still something to note.

Quicksync's best quality is somewhere around the default "VeryFast" preset for x264. Maybe a little worse. Same with NVENC and VCE.

Also, keep your buffer aligned with your bitrate as best you can unless you really know what you're doing.

 

[Kairu]

I see. Understood about compression. Didn't realize that's what the preset was for, just assumed that's what you meant.

I understand that I don't have a monster CPU, but I've already overclocked it quite a bit over stock and assumed it would be able to handle 720p. I messed around with TF2 on one core (and changed in-game options to complement 1core) and had OBS on 3 and it seemed to be able to handle x264 on VeryFast, but not enough for Faster.

I understand that I'm going to take a quality hit in order to not effect my game. That's why I was interested in QuickSync in the first place, because that's precisely what it lets me do. However, maybe I'm completely wrong, and the other streamer doesn't use QuickSync, because I don't understand how: All with both of us on the best quality preset my quicksync has much lower quality with higher bitrate, when cpu performance isn't the factor (vod5).

http://www.twitch.tv/hattricksux/v/5779734 There's a link to my best quality 3000 bitrate quicksync on the same map as theirs for direct comparison. Why is mine so much worse?

Do i7 CPUs just encode quicksync differently? Makes it better quality? Is there some way to add additional compression to quicksync to get to the other streamer's qualtiy? I just don't know why mine is worse.

 

[Harold]

It's the 4xxx series i5 and i7 that encode quicksync differently from previous chips. i5 vs i7 quicksync in the same chip generation is typically going to give the same output.
The 4xxx series chips (Haswell and Devil's Canyon) offer higher quality using quicksync than previous chips (Sandy and Ivy bridge)

For local recording, quicksync ends up being better since it uses a separate section of the processor from the main encoding and you have the ability to throw enough bitrate at it to offset the lower compression quality typically offered.

You've basically got some tradeoffs to decide on here, quality vs system performance.

 

[Kairu]

It's the 4xxx series i5 and i7 that encode quicksync differently from previous chips. i5 vs i7 quicksync in the same chip generation is typically going to give the same output.
The 4xxx series chips (Haswell and Devil's Canyon) offer higher quality using quicksync than previous chips (Sandy and Ivy bridge)

Does that not mean that my 4670k and his 4790k should give similar quicksync output? Mine is significantly worse. I must be missing some sort of bios setting? Driver install? Maybe one of those custom quick sync parameters?

Would upgrading to a 4790k give me the same quality? I'd have preferred to wait for skylake coming in a month or two.

I'd like use quicksync, and will probably begin to, even with the issues, I was just hoping that the quality could at least be equivalent since I'm using 3500 while un-partnered, essentially blocking some viewers from even watching.

 

[D2ultima]

That other streamer isn't using Quicksync. If their quality is better with lower bitrate, then without a doubt they are using x264. Hardware encoders are not designed for quality.

When I said to use an i7, I had meant to use x264 with it. Hyperthreading helps greatly. You'd need to clock your chip up to 4.4GHz to match even a 3.5GHz i7 as far as OBS and x264 are concerned, far less throwing a 4.2GHz 4790K at it.

If quality is what you're aiming for, then an i7 and x264 is the only real way to get it.