Question / Help Not Crystal Clear 720p on Stream?
- Thread starter waterise
- Start date
FerretBomb
Active Member
Seconded. 1500 for 720@30 is okay quality for a normal (or low) motion game, but an FPS will block like hell at that bitrate with all of the onscreen motion.
FerretBomb
Active Member
Bitrate CAN help quality, and is REQUIRED to minimize/eliminate certain issues.
3500 is again RIDICULOUSLY high for a 720@30 stream. It will give very poor viewer results due to the added bandwidth needed to watch it (above 2000kbps, many viewers will get stutter... some even then!) as well as processing needed to decode it smoothly.
You have reached the point where more bitrate can only help so much. You need to use a slower preset in conjunction (which an i5 isn't going to be able to handle).
Additionally, if you are using a downscale, it will cause text to get blurry. Same if you are resizing any on-screen elements; they'll blur even worse.
For BEST quality, you'd need to run your primary (game) display at 1280x720, as well as set your OBS custom resolution to 1280x720. You'd need to rescale any on-screen assets OUTSIDE of OBS to fit the scale of a 720p display; preferably with PNG, and using alpha transparency prior to the resize on any assets with transparent elements (to allow dithered edges). At that point you will be running with no rescaling, which will maintain sharpness all over.
Additionally, with only a 720p display to drive, you may be able to enable more graphical options and even antialiasing in-game to provide an even better visual presentation.
You'd also need to use a Medium or Slow preset (careful, needs a LOT of CPU there, your i5 isn't going to cut the mustard at these presets) and may want to bump your framerate a bit as well... for some reason, even going to 45fps seems to make games appear 'clearer'.
I suppose you need to define what SPECIFICALLY about your stream appears less than 'crisp'. And don't say 'everything', that just puts us back to square one and is a useless answer. Is the text too blurry? Are the colors less vibrant? Are you getting inordinate amounts of blocking?
In the case of the last one, sometimes you also have to learn the trick of 'managing expectations'. You will NEVER have a 1:1 stream. The video needs to be compressed.
tl;dr: Given the amount of text you're using, I'm going to guess that your issue is that text gets blurred quite a lot. This is due to the downscaling. Run OBS at 1280x720, run your game at 1280x720. It will very likely help quite a bit. Downscaling from 1080->720 is going to induce a lot of blurriness, and this is about the only way to avoid it entirely.
3500 is again RIDICULOUSLY high for a 720@30 stream. It will give very poor viewer results due to the added bandwidth needed to watch it (above 2000kbps, many viewers will get stutter... some even then!) as well as processing needed to decode it smoothly.
You have reached the point where more bitrate can only help so much. You need to use a slower preset in conjunction (which an i5 isn't going to be able to handle).
Additionally, if you are using a downscale, it will cause text to get blurry. Same if you are resizing any on-screen elements; they'll blur even worse.
For BEST quality, you'd need to run your primary (game) display at 1280x720, as well as set your OBS custom resolution to 1280x720. You'd need to rescale any on-screen assets OUTSIDE of OBS to fit the scale of a 720p display; preferably with PNG, and using alpha transparency prior to the resize on any assets with transparent elements (to allow dithered edges). At that point you will be running with no rescaling, which will maintain sharpness all over.
Additionally, with only a 720p display to drive, you may be able to enable more graphical options and even antialiasing in-game to provide an even better visual presentation.
You'd also need to use a Medium or Slow preset (careful, needs a LOT of CPU there, your i5 isn't going to cut the mustard at these presets) and may want to bump your framerate a bit as well... for some reason, even going to 45fps seems to make games appear 'clearer'.
I suppose you need to define what SPECIFICALLY about your stream appears less than 'crisp'. And don't say 'everything', that just puts us back to square one and is a useless answer. Is the text too blurry? Are the colors less vibrant? Are you getting inordinate amounts of blocking?
In the case of the last one, sometimes you also have to learn the trick of 'managing expectations'. You will NEVER have a 1:1 stream. The video needs to be compressed.
tl;dr: Given the amount of text you're using, I'm going to guess that your issue is that text gets blurred quite a lot. This is due to the downscaling. Run OBS at 1280x720, run your game at 1280x720. It will very likely help quite a bit. Downscaling from 1080->720 is going to induce a lot of blurriness, and this is about the only way to avoid it entirely.
ThoNohT
Developer
I want to place a sidenote here: A slower preset isn't needed per se. If connections were not an issue (local recording for example), you could simply stream at 20mbps, at veryfast, and get an amazingly looking stream.
The only real reason for a slower preset, is to increase compression performance, and get better results at lower bitrates.
Also, while setting your game resolution to 720p may free up some resources, it is generally not advisable. A. it will just look plain ugly on 1080p monitors. But you already noticed this. And B. I remember this discussion from a few months back: A higher base resolution with a good downscale always looks better than a lower base resolution with no downscale. Yes, you might get less blurry letters, but the quality that just isn't there due to the fact that the resolution is lower is a much bigger impact than the fact that the higher quality is being downscaled with a pretty darn good algorithm (lanczos). And let's be honest, it's runescape, how much quality are you going to expect, and how much performance is it going to need?
The only real reason for a slower preset, is to increase compression performance, and get better results at lower bitrates.
Also, while setting your game resolution to 720p may free up some resources, it is generally not advisable. A. it will just look plain ugly on 1080p monitors. But you already noticed this. And B. I remember this discussion from a few months back: A higher base resolution with a good downscale always looks better than a lower base resolution with no downscale. Yes, you might get less blurry letters, but the quality that just isn't there due to the fact that the resolution is lower is a much bigger impact than the fact that the higher quality is being downscaled with a pretty darn good algorithm (lanczos). And let's be honest, it's runescape, how much quality are you going to expect, and how much performance is it going to need?
FerretBomb said:
So, what's the best bitrate to use for 720p@30?
The main issue is slight text blurriness. You can read it, but it's still not how I see it on my PC screen, because of compression. You can see a recorded stream here:
http://www.twitch.tv/bwanden/profile/pastBroadcasts
Any of the first 3 really.
I am also live streaming right now, but anyway, just text mainly. So, do I have to change my resolution to 1280x720 on my PC? 'Cause it looks awful on my monitor (1920x1080). My OBS settings are: Custom 1920x1080 downscaled to 1280x720, 1.5 bilinear.
FerretBomb
Active Member
No, that's because you're looking at it in 1080p, and it's being downscaled. Text will blur quite a bit even with Lanczos. It'll be (mostly) readable, but nowhere near as sharp as if it were native resolution.waterise said:
To be entirely frank, if you can stream at 3500kbps without your viewers complaining? Bump to 1080p@30fps and see if you can swing it. May have to drop to 20fps instead (due to the i5 potentially not being able to keep up).
If you want to stick at 720, see about running the game in windowed mode if possible.
Also, ThoNohT; watching a native-res 720 stream with text vs a downscaled 1080->720 with Lanczos, the native IS *significantly* sharper and more readable. If his problem is not wanting fuzzy text, running native would be the definitive solution. Even if Lanczos is the best available downscale, it still makes text look pretty crappy by comparison.
If only there were a way to apply some layers post-downscale (such as text layers, window captures containing only text, etc) instead of compositing the scene pre-downscale.
I have this same problem with my on-screen chat... a lot of it (certain color names, mostly pure reds and deep blues) becomes nearly un-readable post-downscale.
FerretBomb said:
I switched to 40 FPS and made it Lanczos and didn't really notice anything different. I get occasional viewers who say the stream lags here and there, but majority has no problems watching. I dropped to 3000 bitrate too.
Not sure abut a difference in quality or anything, though. Looks the same.
Question: How come my stream isn't as clear as others, though?
My stream: http://www.twitch.tv/bwanden/b/483161725
Someone else's: http://www.twitch.tv/unknowngamer243/b/483171179
I feel like his is better by a decent amount.
ThoNohT
Developer
When he's standing still, it might be looking a bit better. But have you checked the pixelation that happens when he starts moving? Yours looks better by lot, he also uses half the bitrate you are using, so his stream is never going to look as good as yours.
Aren't you sure this isn't a case of the grass is always greener?
Aren't you sure this isn't a case of the grass is always greener?