Question / Help Lags with TwitchTV

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Unknown87

New Member
Hi fellow streamers,

as a native german speaker I try my very best to describe my Problem as best as I can. Pls. don't hesitate to ask if something is unclear.

Everytime I stream to twitch above 2000 kbit/s my viewers telling me that they have very heavy lags (like for 3 seconds every 10 seconds). With a friend of mine I tried some configurations to figure out the problem.

My internet provider assigned me an upload of 7000 kbit/s. Also OBS is not telling me that some frames are dropped.

As long as I stream with Quality 8 and not higher then 720p with 2000 kbit/s for the most viewer there are no lags. But my PC and my Internetconnection is able to stream in 1080p with much more bitrate.
Also when I watch the replay in my Twitch Dashboards there are no lags. Why are there lags in the stream himself?

Also a strange thing is, that the same viewer sometimes have those lags, but when he reloaded the page a few times there are no lags anymore. I can say this also for myself.

Hope you have an idea. My first thought was, that Twitch is not providing my viewers with the Bandwith they need. Maybe because I have not that many viewers ;-)

Regards
 
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Unknown87

New Member
Thank you for your quick advice. I made the test you gave me and some other test. I can give you the following results:

Your testsite: 5.9Mbps
My testsite: 6.0Mbps

I tried both, the frankfurt server and the amsterdam server with OBS. The problem seem to appear on both of them.
 
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Unknown87

New Member
Code: 
20:13:52: Open Broadcaster Software v0.542b - 32bit (´・ω・｀)
20:13:52: -------------------------------
20:13:52: CPU Name: AMD FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core Processor
20:13:52: CPU Speed: 3311MHz
20:13:52: Physical Memory:  4095MB Total, 4095MB Free
20:13:52: stepping id: 2, model 1, family 15, type 0, extmodel 0, extfamily 3, HTT 1, logical cores 6, total cores 3
20:13:52: monitor 1: pos={0, 0}, size={1920, 1080}
20:13:52: monitor 2: pos={-1920, 0}, size={1920, 1080}
20:13:52: Windows Version: 6.2 Build 9200 
20:13:52: Aero is Enabled
20:13:52: -------------------------------
20:13:52: OBS Modules:
20:13:52: Base Address     Module
20:13:52: 01150000         OBS.exe
20:13:52: 5E5C0000         OBSApi.dll
20:13:52: 72880000         DShowPlugin.dll
20:13:52: 66750000         GraphicsCapture.dll
20:13:52: 66730000         NoiseGate.dll
20:13:52: 66710000         PSVPlugin.dll
20:13:52: ------------------------------------------
20:13:52: Adapter 1
20:13:52:   Video Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670
20:13:52:   Video Adapter Dedicated Video Memory: 2091581440
20:13:52:   Video Adapter Shared System Memory: 2147479552
20:13:52: =====Stream Start: 2013-08-20, 20:13:52===============================================
20:13:52:   Multithreaded optimizations: On
20:13:52:   Base resolution: 1920x1080
20:13:52:   Output resolution: 1280x720
20:13:52: ------------------------------------------
20:13:52: Loading up D3D10...
20:13:52: Playback device {0.0.0.00000000}.{607f309e-49fe-475b-bed1-2d5d2011a721}
20:13:52: ------------------------------------------
20:13:52: Using desktop audio input: Lautsprecher (SB Recon3D PCIe)
20:13:52: ------------------------------------------
20:13:52: Using auxilary audio input: Mikrofon (SB Recon3D PCIe)
20:13:52: ------------------------------------------
20:13:52: Audio Encoding: AAC
20:13:52:     bitrate: 192
20:13:52: Using graphics capture
20:13:52: ------------------------------------------
20:13:52: Video Encoding: x264
20:13:52:     fps: 30
20:13:52:     width: 1280, height: 720
20:13:52:     preset: veryfast
20:13:52:     CBR: no
20:13:52:     CFR: no
20:13:52:     max bitrate: 3000
20:13:52:     buffer size: 10000
20:13:52:     quality: 8
20:13:52: ------------------------------------------
20:13:52: SharedTexCapture hooked
20:13:54: Using RTMP service: Twitch / Justin.tv
20:13:54:   Server selection: rtmp://live-ams.justin.tv/app
20:13:56: SO_SNDBUF was at 65536
20:13:56: SO_SNDBUF is now 65536
20:48:47: Total frames rendered: 62836, number of frames that lagged: 9 (0.01%) (it's okay for some frames to lag)
20:48:47: RTMPPublisher::SocketLoop: Aborting due to bStopping
20:48:47: Number of times waited to send: 0, Waited for a total of 0 bytes
20:48:47: Number of b-frames dropped: 0 (0%), Number of p-frames dropped: 0 (0%), Total 0 (0%)
20:48:47: =====Stream End: 2013-08-20, 20:48:47=================================================

I use the 32 Bit and the 64 Bit Client. No difference in performance
Why does it say: Physical Memory 4095. I have around 16GB of RAM.
Also Aero can't be enabled. Windows 8 isn't using Aero as far as I know.
I also tried XSplit: Same results in lagging
 
K

Kharay

Member
Actually, Aero is ALWAYS enabled in Windows 8. There is no way to DISABLE it in Windows 8.

Anyhow, it is listing only 4Gb of memory because it's the 32-bit client. Why use the 32-bit client if you're on a 64-bit OS? Just use the 64-bit client. No reason not to.

20:48:47: Total frames rendered: 62836, number of frames that lagged: 9 (0.01%) (it's okay for some frames to lag)
20:48:47: RTMPPublisher::SocketLoop: Aborting due to bStopping
20:48:47: Number of times waited to send: 0, Waited for a total of 0 bytes
20:48:47: Number of b-frames dropped: 0 (0%), Number of p-frames dropped: 0 (0%), Total 0 (0%)
Click to expand...
That is a good score, a really good score. However, I do have some thoughts for you to consider. First of all, a 10,000 custom buffer size is... silly. There is no reason to have a custom buffer size that large. In fact, I have a couple of suggestions for you:
  • Update OBS to the latest version.
  • Enable CBR
  • Enable CBR Padding
  • Disable Custom Buffer Size
  • Enable CFR (Settings -> Advanced)
  • Once you have the latest version, set Keyframe Interval to 2 seconds (Settings -> Advanced)
 
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Unknown87

New Member
Thank you for your help. I will try those tipps and will come back here as soon as I have a feedback from my viewers ;-)

I used both 32 bit and 64 bit client. It's the same problem on both, actually I posted a 32Bit Client Log.
 
A

alpinlol

Active Member
you could also try the london servers after you changed your settings to the stuff kharay told you ... either the uk or the nl servers are okay but i cant really recommend using the frankfurt server
 
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nrw2000

New Member
It's Twitch issue. They transferred all Europe viewers to US twitch servers and streams lag in case bitrate more 1600-1800. Maybe it's happened because twitch in process of modification infrastructure in Europe.
 
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Unknown87

New Member
I streamed to London, Amsterdam and Frankfurt
I streamed with 1800 kbit
I did all the things Kharay told me

but it's still lagging :(
 
K

Kharay

Member
It's Twitch, can't do anything about it. Just did a short stream myself at a very respectable framerate (2400) and it dropped 50% of all frames. Obviously I immediately tested to make sure it wasn't on my end and my connection is just as amazing as it always is.

Twitch is unusable in Europe, basically.
 
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nrw2000

New Member
Emmett Shear, founder and CEO of Twitch said (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1 ... witch_the/):
We love Europe. Here's how we get to where we are today:

1) Twitch launches

2) Twitch is popular in Europe, and has no European datacenters at all

3) Twitch struggles to grow in Europe

4) Twitch opens first EU datacenter! Much rejoicing!

5) Immediately, European viewers grow. They watch more video, they watch higher bitrates, it's awesome! And then the EU datacenter is saturated. Everyone says Twitch sucks in Europe.

6) Twitch opens 2 more datacenters and expands the first. More rejoicing!

7) You know what happens next. Everyone says Twitch sucks in Europe.

8) Present day: Twitch opens 3 MORE datacenters in Europe (launching very soon). There will be much rejoicing.

Hopefully this time we will be able to get the NEXT set of datacenters open before you guys use it all up..but the appetite for video seems voracious.
 
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alpinlol

Active Member
well thats known for a long time actually ... but even tho they have by far more european viewers on every stream they actually dont really give a fuck but you guys could try streaming on hashd.tv maybe its getting a 2nd big streaming site beside twitch and as a newcomer in streaming you still have a chance creating a community for your stream
 
K

Kharay

Member
Well, personally, I am just going to put my money on Google (Youtube) and their intention to roll out live streaming via Youtube to more and more people. As much as I applaud Twitch's efforts and intentions, ultimately what counts the most is just having the bigger purse (to fund the infrastructure) and few purses are as big as Google's these days.
 
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Unknown87

New Member
But why is it that the stream is only lagging on my site?
My friends are streaming, too. And they have no lags.
 
K

Kharay

Member
Because... well... Twitch. Seriously, we have confirmed it is not on your side, it has become apparent it is Twitch in your case. And the fact others are not having issues does not mean you can't have issues with Twitch. It just means that... they're no having issues with Twitch.
 
P

Pugget

Twitch
While I don't really appreciate the hate without evidence, it was likely deserved in this particular case:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6935

This is getting resolved tomorrow. More information on the bottom of that thread.

We actually do care, quiet deeply, about our users. Our EU ingest quality has gone up a lot the past six months, as has viewer QoS since the first new servers have come online. Reading threads like this, where it seems assumed we are dragging our feet or don't care, is personally frustrating - we're moving as fast as we can, and are very aware that that speed isn't always fast enough. The particular problem on LHR and AMS the last few days was an error on our side - and that's particularly agonizing, because it never should have happened. Apologies.
 
K

Kharay

Member
I'm not hating. What you must understand is that we're down in the trenches here. Being confronted with disappointed / angry users/streamers who usually end up blaming OBS. A variable in the equation which is even less to blame than either Twitch and/or the ISP in question. But, well... "YOLO, it worked a year ago while I was using Xsplit... YOLO. OBS sucks!". No joke, that happens. ;)

Again, what would you have us do other than simply calling it out for what it is -- an issue on Twitch's side? In this case particular, as you said so yourself -- it actually is the truth.
 
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Pugget

Twitch
I'm not going to argue too strongly here, but coming from an engineers perspective, there was a lack of evidence provided for the conclusions reached. What happens if the IX (internet exchange) in AMS had gotten fucked, as has happened elsewhere before? That would have caused the same type of effect, yet would have been very much out of our control. I can understand users not caring about the *why* of a situation, but the incessant blame without cause has tired me out.

In this case it /was/ our fault. All I'm asking is that instead of just assuming as much, that you ping us, via support; the problem here is that those pings didn't make it back to us. I'll talk to people tomorrow about being too dismissive of these sorts of problems. But please don't assume that we don't care; it couldn't be further from the truth.
 
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