Question / Help High cpu usage on Windows 10

[hypnotoad]

New info: i found another utility that basically suffers the same "performance issues" like OBS. It's called SVP (http://www.svp-team.com/). The goal of this software is realtime frame interpolation (24->60 fps, something like motion flow technology in Sony TVs). Same symptoms: under windows 10 cpu usage is ~2x times higher than it was on 7 on the same videos with exact same settings. There's some connection here, i think. Both utilities are video-encoding related.

I don't see any evidence that there's a problem here. OBS is performing better now than it was before.

And i don't think that ~1% lower duplicated frames should requite ~2x higher CPU usage. On latest nvidia driver you can see 18% dropped frames, but CPU usage was the same.

 

[Cryonic]

Like i said, i had no issues before on Windows 8.1. No dropped or duplicated frames, nothing.
Right now the usage jumped up. Not ~2x, for me its more like 50% increase on the CPU load.
It is nice to see that Windows 10 can handle realtime encoding with x264 so good, but the problem comes in when people try to do this without highend hardware. Believe me not everyone has big overclocked i7 sitting under the desk.
So what should we do to descrease the hunger for more performance?
And i think most people will not notice a 1% drop on a 60FPS stream anyway, so many streams look awful, stutter etc.
I think many people would love to see a lower CPU load and take some minor FPS drops here and there for it.

Personally i dont mind, i still can squeeze 720p 60fps with the fast or even medium preset (depends on the content/background stuff running), but i have a lot of friends who are not willing to throw 1000$+ on a X99-system just to be able to handle that load.

 

[dping]

Like i said, i had no issues before on Windows 8.1. No dropped or duplicated frames, nothing.
Right now the usage jumped up. Not ~2x, for me its more like 50% increase on the CPU load.
It is nice to see that Windows 10 can handle realtime encoding with x264 so good, but the problem comes in when people try to do this without highend hardware. Believe me not everyone has big overclocked i7 sitting under the desk.
So what should we do to descrease the hunger for more performance?
And i think most people will not notice a 1% drop on a 60FPS stream anyway, so many streams look awful, stutter etc.
I think many people would love to see a lower CPU load and take some minor FPS drops here and there for it.

Personally i dont mind, i still can squeeze 720p 60fps with the fast or even medium preset (depends on the content/background stuff running), but i have a lot of friends who are not willing to throw 1000$+ on a X99-system just to be able to handle that load.

nvidia or AMD?

 

[Cryonic]

nvidia or AMD?

What do you mean Nvidia or AMD?

My personal rig:
16GB DDR4 2400 (will be replaced)
ASUS X-99 A MoBo
i7 5820K @4,5GHz (overclocked beast, uncore and anything else pushed to the limit and watercooled)
GTX 970 OC (will be replaced with 2x 980Ti when OBS MP finally will support pulling frames from ALL cards in SLI/CrossFire configs!)
SSD, HDD, cooling and other crap dont do anything, but everything is running perfectly. This is a dream machine for a streamer with a singleGPU so far, could be more but thats too much.

But a lot of my friends use Intel, Nvidia and AMD with mixed configs, most rigs are lightyears behind my beast, some stream with laptops and i`m not happy with the current CPU usage increase. So far they still use the old windows, from 7 to 8.1, but in a short period of time they will jump on windows 10, specially because i told them that it is almost stable and should be good to go after the summer.

 

[dping]

What do you mean Nvidia or AMD?

My personal rig:
16GB DDR4 2400 (will be replaced)
ASUS X-99 A MoBo
i7 5820K @4,5GHz (overclocked beast, uncore and anything else pushed to the limit and watercooled)
GTX 970 OC (will be replaced with 2x 980Ti when OBS MP finally will support pulling frames from ALL cards in SLI/CrossFire configs!)
SSD, HDD, cooling and other crap dont do anything, but everything is running perfectly. This is a dream machine for a streamer with a singleGPU so far, could be more but thats too much.

But a lot of my friends use Intel, Nvidia and AMD with mixed configs, most rigs are lightyears behind my beast, some stream with laptops and i`m not happy with the current CPU usage increase. So far they still use the old windows, from 7 to 8.1, but in a short period of time they will jump on windows 10, specially because i told them that it is almost stable and should be good to go after the summer.

From windows 8.1 to 10, I had no increase in CPU usage, I use AMD and was noticing a trend

 

[Cryonic]

From windows 8.1 to 10, I had no increase in CPU usage, I use AMD and was noticing a trend

So you point at Nvidia drivers or something else related to Nvidia or maybe Intel technology?
This is unlikely, but possible. Remember that Nvidia and specially Intel are really popular among streamers due to "highend" "top of the line" status and generally Gameworks-friendly behavior in the last years with so many games...
No idea what AMD did with their driver to adapt it to windows 10, but i had at least 3 different driver versions tested with Windows 10 (various builds, ranging from 101something to the 10240 and the final release build, that includes the yesterday or todays patch). CPU-load caused by OBS has not changed, but the current build fixed some stuff with the game capture (look at my thread in the "bug reports" section).

 

[dping]

So you point at Nvidia drivers or something else related to Nvidia or maybe Intel technology?
This is unlikely, but possible. Remember that Nvidia and specially Intel are really popular among streamers due to "highend" "top of the line" status and generally Gameworks-friendly behavior in the last years with so many games...
No idea what AMD did with their driver to adapt it to windows 10, but i had at least 3 different driver versions tested with Windows 10 (various builds, ranging from 101something to the 10240 and the final release build, that includes the yesterday or todays patch). CPU-load caused by OBS has not changed, but the current build fixed some stuff with the game capture (look at my thread in the "bug reports" section).

All true.
I've been on since 9926 maybe earlier,

I was more responding to you saying that:

Not ~2x, for me its more like 50% increase on the CPU load.

but prior to, we were talking about just load from OBS between earlier versions of OBS and now to which you responded saying

CPU-load caused by OBS has not changed

so I'm confused by what you are saying had 50% load increase.

 

[Cryonic]

I mean the CPU-load with Windows 10 has not changed, doesnt matter what build (windows 10 AND OBS!) and driver version was used.
But it is ~50% higher than on Windows 8.1 with same settings.
We had some other stuff that is sorted out like huge FPS loss while using game capture under Windows 10, but this one is still present.
Dont get confused, i`m talking only about win10 right now, cause i dont have a running and updated 8.1 anymore (a cloned drive is flying around somewhere but it would take me hours to get that damn thing up and running again).
I just can see that it eats my CPU like crazy and i had to adjust the preset back to veryfast on 1080p 60fps to handle that.

And i believe that MS and Nvidia did a great job this time keeping things nice and stable, its OBS what i`m pointing at, this is where the voodoo happens with the increased CPU load, capture problems, FPS drops and other funny things...

 

[Boildown]

I still don't see the logic in the conclusion that when nothing has changed except for the Windows version, that OBS is the problem.

 

[dodgepong]

Does the increased CPU usage go away if you don't use game capture? Or is it happening even without game capture? Microsoft recently released some new DirectX DLLs that necessitate updating Game Capture to make efficient use of them, which is something Jim is working on.

 

[Cryonic]

Does the increased CPU usage go away if you don't use game capture? Or is it happening even without game capture? Microsoft recently released some new DirectX DLLs that necessitate updating Game Capture to make efficient use of them.

Thats hard to track down. Right now i have similar FPS and similar CPU usage while capturing a game (doesnt matter if game, window or monitor capture). Didnt test the capture without a game running at all (just pure monitor capture, maybe with a video running to give the encoder something to do) - but i expect the CPU load to be way lower when the encoder has nothing to do with a static picture on my desktop.
And i expected OBS to work with the development of the OS to adjust to the updates of the OS quickly. Waiting for a release of new stuff and then starting to adapt to it is a good way to scare away people who actually use new technology to push it into the market.
I expect my software to be updated instantly or really close to the release date, just like Nvidia does it with games - bring an optimised driver etc when its still fresh, not when its weeks old and people already moved on.
I know that OBS is developed by a single guy right now and all the manpower is going into OBS MP, but so far the MP is not even close to be a full replacement for OBS, so i expect quick support, bugfixing and updates. So tired of stuff not working properly on every level, from games to semiprofessional hardware, only a few developers managed to keep it running without any downtimes related to OS changes or new technology...

 

[Boildown]

And i expected OBS to work with the development of the OS to adjust to the updates of the OS quickly. Waiting for a release of new stuff and then starting to adapt to it is a good way to scare away people who actually use new technology to push it into the market.

...

I expect my software to be updated instantly or really close to the release date, just like Nvidia does it with games - bring an optimised driver etc when its still fresh, not when its weeks old and people already moved on.

...

so i expect quick support, bugfixing and updates. So tired of stuff not working properly on every level, from games to semiprofessional hardware, only a few developers managed to keep it running without any downtimes related to OS changes or new technology...

I expect people using open source software to use proper grammar and capitalization on the internet. I know, I know, I have unreasonable expectations, but dammit, I just expect it!

 

[hypnotoad]

Does the increased CPU usage go away if you don't use game capture?

Yes, it does. But here's strange thing: if I capture browser window with flash video, CPU usage is not that high. But if I capture video player (mpc-hc), or even some game, it goes way higher. And it doesn't matter, which method of capturing (game/window) I use. But when I use monitor capture it's actually very fast compared to Windows 7.
Here's an example:

Only 20-25% CPU usage with clean desktop, 35-40 with a game running. On windows 7 I was unable to capture desktop, everything lagged horribly.

Again, I'm not sure now if it's even OBS's problem, because another software (SVP) is affected in the same way. We need someone with AMD GPU to test CPU load under 7 and 10. With intel onboard GPU I got same results as with nvidia.

 

[dping]

Yes, it does. But here's strange thing: if I capture browser window with flash video, CPU usage is not that high. But if I capture video player (mpc-hc), or even some game, it goes way higher. And it doesn't matter, which method of capturing (game/window) I use. But when I use monitor capture it's actually very fast compared to Windows 7.
Here's an example:

Only 20-25% CPU usage with clean desktop, 35-40 with a game running. On windows 7 I was unable to capture desktop, everything lagged horribly.

Again, I'm not sure now if it's even OBS's problem, because another software (SVP) is affected in the same way. We need someone with AMD GPU to test CPU load under 7 and 10. With intel onboard GPU I got same results as with nvidia.

Remember the apples to apples comparison? do a game capture for a windowed game, possibly the same scene, then do a window capture for the same game scene, then a monitor capture for the same game scene. each time removing the previous capture method then adding the new one.

different scenes will have different load on the encoder. this is true for movement, color and scene complexity

 

[Cryonic]

I expect people using open source software to use proper grammar and capitalization on the internet. I know, I know, I have unreasonable expectations, but dammit, I just expect it!

Well sorry then, i`m a russian guy living in Germany right now, so i had to focus on something else than english first. Not everyone can speak english perfectly. And by the way it could be worse, i image a lot of your people who know only english as their native language make mistakes just like me.
Open source or not - if something big like a new OS hits the market, you have to follow. Nobody can just sit there and expect people to use old software to maintain a working system. I make no difference between open source and normal paid software/shareware whatever. Release date is the deadline, it has to be finished until the deadline or people will complain. And I`m part of it just because i`m tired of software not working properly on new hardware or having problems with other products.

Remember the apples to apples comparison? do a game capture for a windowed game, possibly the same scene, then do a window capture for the same game scene, then a monitor capture for the same game scene. each time removing the previous capture method then adding the new one.

different scenes will have different load on the encoder. this is true for movement, color and scene complexity

I did this stuff in the preview and also recorded some footage. Running a game with borderless mode, it made 0 difference, nothing. Standing still in an area where nothing is moving - FPS are the same and the CPU load from OBS is the same, doesnt matter if monitor, window or game capture. But i never remove the old capture methods from the scene, i just switch between them. I also let a lot of crap run in the background, just because i would use it while streaming - and no, i will keep testing it like that, because this is the way how people use OBS. Chat, some plugins, heavy tasks like Skype are always running, i try to make it as close as possible to a real livestream situtation and not just a clean recording where i use a fresh windows copy and nothing in the background.

I will finish my old thread and open a new one in the bug fixing area, because this is not about FPS drops anymore, its about the CPU usage. Would make it easier to find my logs and infos.

 

[Boildown]

I expect people using open source software to use proper grammar and capitalization on the internet. I know, I know, I have unreasonable expectations, but dammit, I just expect it!

Well sorry then, i`m a russian guy living in Germany right now, so i had to focus on something else than english first. Not everyone can speak english perfectly. And by the way it could be worse, i image a lot of your people who know only english as their native language make mistakes just like me.
Open source or not - if something big like a new OS hits the market, you have to follow. Nobody can just sit there and expect people to use old software to maintain a working system. I make no difference between open source and normal paid software/shareware whatever. Release date is the deadline, it has to be finished until the deadline or people will complain. And I`m part of it just because i`m tired of software not working properly on new hardware or having problems with other products

My pretend expectations are equally as unreasonable as are your actual expectations, which was the point.

This is open source software, written, staffed and supported by volunteers. Yes, there is a factual difference: There's no support contract obligating anyone to do anything within your imagined expectations or Microsoft's OS release timeframes. If Jim does it anyway, its because he's just a nice guy. You are already getting way more than you paid for.

 

[Osiris]

Well sorry then, i`m a russian guy living in Germany right now, so i had to focus on something else than english first. Not everyone can speak english perfectly. And by the way it could be worse, i image a lot of your people who know only english as their native language make mistakes just like me.
Open source or not - if something big like a new OS hits the market, you have to follow. Nobody can just sit there and expect people to use old software to maintain a working system. I make no difference between open source and normal paid software/shareware whatever. Release date is the deadline, it has to be finished until the deadline or people will complain. And I`m part of it just because i`m tired of software not working properly on new hardware or having problems with other products.

You SHOULD make a difference between open source and normal paid software, because there are quite significant differences. One being you are not entitled to anything, you did not pay for anything, you don't have a contract.
Didn't I explain this before? Yet you are still holding on to unrealistic expections for an open source project dependent on volunteers.
Stuff gets fixed reasonably fast, but there isn't the time to test everything, we are partly dependent on reports from users.

 

[dodgepong]

And i expected OBS to work with the development of the OS to adjust to the updates of the OS quickly.

The new DLLs were released only a couple days ago, without warning. There's not really much more we could do about it. A fix is on the way.

I know that OBS is developed by a single guy [...] so i expect quick support, bugfixing and updates.

If you know that there are extremely few people developing OBS, why would you then believe that support/fixes/updates should be fast? If that's what you care about the most, then perhaps you should pay for some software where such things are ostensibly included with the purchase. Otherwise, no one has any obligation to do anything for you.

 

[Cryonic]

The new DLLs were released only a couple days ago, without warning. There's not really much more we could do about it. A fix is on the way.

If you know that there are extremely few people developing OBS, why would you then believe that support/fixes/updates should be fast? If that's what you care about the most, then perhaps you should pay for some software where such things are ostensibly included with the purchase. Otherwise, no one has any obligation to do anything for you.

The main problem today that i have in general, is that i get minor and major bugs almost everywhere, in normal software or in open source projects, specially games.
Some streamers need tripleA games and software working with the newest tools and OS right on release day, mostly because tripleA games "die" withhin weeks. Waiting until everything is patched means - everyone who liked it, already saw everything or played it at least once. I know its almost impossible, but i would wish that more manpower would be moved to optimization, bugfixing and testing - and only if there is nothing to do the development would go on.
I support open source projects with money and/or testing and providing information, but i also need my stuff to be rocksolid in any possible way. Specially as a DJ i learned that stability goes over anything else, once you are live, minor stuff doesnt matter - but the show must go on. And DJ-software was almost the only thing that never let me down in the past couple of years, it works perfectly. And i expect this from any other tool, specially if this is somehow related to live-events of any kind.
Absolute stability is not possible with constant updates, new drivers etc. But at least quick fixes, withhin hours - thats what so many people would love. And would pay for. Me included, because i learned how crucial stability is while working with an audience. Sadly i`m more an audio and hardware guy and cant contribute to the development directly, so my only way is to provide information to the team.

So if needed i can do some testing with windows 10, record that on video and provide logs, thats it.

P.S. its really sad that there is no information for software developers about the upcoming changes. That would make it easier to fix just by giving you guys extra time to prepare before something breaks.

 

[XeiZ]

https://www.xsplit.com/