Question / Help 2PC setup with capture card, screen tearing and bad FPS on OBS recordings

[Darker]

Gaming PC
i7 4770K 4.2 GHz
Asus R9 280X
144 Hz monitor (main) DVI-D
60 Hz monitor (secondary) DVI
LGP Lite capture card (third "monitor") DP->HDMI
Win 7 x64

Streaming PC
AMD Phenom 955 3.2 GHz
AsusR9 280X
2 GB RAM
Win 7 x64

Main monitor is mirrored with the capture card. Main monitor uses 121 Hz (Lightboost), capture card 60 Hz.

Confirming that capture card uses 60 Hz and main monitor 121 Hz.




I use OBS AMD VCE 2014-12-29 to encode with the streaming PC's R9 280X:
https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/obs-branch-with-amd-vce-support.13996/



Whenever I record with OBS, there is a lot of screen tearing and the FPS is ridiculously bad, even though OBS is recording in 50 FPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnZM5xOA56E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJogEBn-rA



I have tried to record with AMF 48fps gop 48 / idr 96 which eliminates most of the screen tearing, but the FPS is still very low.


This is the latest OBS log where I tried to record in AMF 54fps (108 IDR/54GOP):
http://pastebin.com/R9ntpbqQ

I didn't know you could mirror with different refresh rates... I used this utility to enable/disable lightboost. If you want to completely disable lightboost, use the setup utility and take out all refresh rates that work with lightboost and enable only 144hz and 121Hz, etc.

Anyway, back on topic: when you enable your monitor, Catalyst re-detects all displays.


Also, what capture card you using? I know Avermedia Livegamer HD will select 1080@60 input, but only capture/record at 1080@30 from your gaming rig which even if your end video is at 720@48, the end result will be much more less than even 30fps

I almost feel that this entire convo is going to go kind-of off topic to put in the center of a 70page thread. Lets start a new one with your issue and link me to it; we'll talk about your setup.

I still think you should just cut the capture card piece or use x264 if you want to keep the 2PC setup.

I am using that exact program to enable / disable lightboost. I just can not disable lightboost when the capture card is mirrored with the main monitor. The capture card is set to capture in 1280x720p60.

Another annoying problem is that whenever I minimize CSGO on my gaming PC, it switches position with the gaming monitor and secondary monitor. Every time. This also only happens when the capture card is mirrored with the main monitor.

 

[dping]

Whenever I record with OBS, there is a lot of screen tearing and the FPS is ridiculously bad, even though OBS is recording in 50 FPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnZM5xOA56E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJogEBn-rA



I have tried to record with AMF 48fps gop 48 / idr 96 which eliminates most of the screen tearing, but the FPS is still very low.

So I believe here is the thing. your capture card is only able to record 1080@30fps when the input to the capture is set to 1080@60Hz/fps so you are loosing frames there I bet, even though you are down-scaling to 720@60 with avery software on your streamPC, I think you are still loosing frames; I'm almost positive on that.

the screen flipping/ defaulting back to 120/144Hz (aka enabling lightboost) thing is probably a bug/issue with Catalyst in this situation. with this setup, the best way to deal with that would be to change to windowed no border with CS:GO. you shouldn't lose to many frames as I have the same r9 280X.


So here is a test. on your mirrored monitor, try changing your screen resolution to 720@60 (this is just a test).
720@60 should flow all the way to your stream. Try this as a test and get back with me.

E: IDR 120/GOP 60

 

[Darker]

So I believe here is the thing. your capture card is only able to record 1080@30fps when the input to the capture is set to 1080@60Hz/fps so you are loosing frames there I bet, even though you are down-scaling to 720@60 with avery software on your streamPC, I think you are still loosing frames; I'm almost positive on that.

the screen flipping/ defaulting back to 120/144Hz (aka enabling lightboost) thing is probably a bug/issue with Catalyst in this situation. with this setup, the best way to deal with that would be to change to windowed no border with CS:GO. you shouldn't lose to many frames as I have the same r9 280X.


So here is a test. on your mirrored monitor, try changing your screen resolution to 720@60 (this is just a test).
720@60 should flow all the way to your stream. Try this as a test and get back with me.

This is driving me insane. I just uninstalled lightboost because its fucking with me so much. One thing less to deal with. I am setting my main monitor to 1920x1080 @ 144 Hz, then I mirror it with the capture card. As soon as I try to duplicate the signal, my main monitor changes to 1680x1050 @ 144 Hz. If I change it back to 1920x1080, it forces in 60 Hz. And as soon as I change to 144 Hz it changes back to 1680x1050 again?!

I also tried to extend the capture card and then set my main monitor to 1920x1080 144 Hz, and the capture card to 1280x720 60 Hz and THEN do the mirror. Didn't work.

Next GPU will defenitely be an Nvidia. I am really really starting to furiously hate AMD the more I use their shit. Is there no way to mirror the monitors with third party software instead of Catalyst control center?

Also, I still don't understand what you mean by cut out the capture card and use a 2PC setup. How would the streaming PC be able to help me in any way if I don't have a capture card? I mean how would I get the video signal from the gaming computer to the streaming PC without a capture card?

And I just want to thank you very much for helping me with this issue, and I am truly sorry if I sound like a bitch, but I am so angry on the damn technology right now.

 

[dping]

Also, I still don't understand what you mean by cut out the capture card and use a 2PC setup..

I meant "or" 2 PC setup with x264 OR single PC AMD-VCE

I also tried to extend the capture card and then set my main monitor to 1920x1080 144 Hz, and the capture card to 1280x720 60 Hz and THEN do the mirror. Didn't work.

No no no. set your main monitor at 1280@720@60 then mirror just to test.

the version of HDMI cant do 1080@144Hz. so that might be why it goes down to1680@1050 this is not an AMD problem, its HDMI version1.x thing. this is why you need a displayport or dual link DVI for 1080@144Hz.

 

[Boildown]

You need to get rid of some of the variables in your equations until you find something that works, then add things back one at a time.

Set monitor 1 and 2 both to 60Hz and get rid of monitors 3 and 4. Use x264 encoding on your streaming PC.

I just looked at your log and you seem to have a Live Gamer Portable Lite. /sigh... if you have a dedicated streaming PC, you should have a PCIe card in that, not some shitty USB 2.0 device. An Avermedia Live Gamer HD would be far better for you.

So set monitor 1 to 60Hz and monitor 2 to 30Hz, both at 1920x1080p. Use x264 encoding on your streaming PC. Get rid of monitors 3 and 4. See if you can get that to work. If you can, then add monitor 3, and see if you can get it to work without the swapping problem. If you can, add monitor 4 (do you actually have a 4th monitor? Not sure) and do the same.

If all that works, then try setting your monitor 1 to 120Hz. And test again. If that works, try setting monitor 1 to 144 Hz, and test again.

Finally if all that works (or you found the limitation and set appropriately), try using the VCE encoding.

At some point this will fail, and then you'll know where the failure is.

Your Live Gamer Portable isn't capable of accepting a 1080p60 input. Only 1080p30. So don't send it a 1080p60 input.

 

[Darker]

I meant "or" 2 PC setup with x264 OR single PC AMD-VCE



No no no. set your main monitor at 1280@720@60 then mirror just to test.

the version of HDMI cant do 1080@144Hz. so that might be why it goes down to1680@1050 this is not an AMD problem, its HDMI version1.x thing. this is why you need a displayport or dual link DVI for 1080@144Hz.

I still don't understand the 2PC setup you're talking about. I am using a 2PC setup with a capture card already. Ok, I can try 1280x720@60 on main monitor.

You need to get rid of some of the variables in your equations until you find something that works, then add things back one at a time.

Set monitor 1 and 2 both to 60Hz and get rid of monitors 3 and 4. Use x264 encoding on your streaming PC.

I just looked at your log and you seem to have a Live Gamer Portable Lite. /sigh... if you have a dedicated streaming PC, you should have a PCIe card in that, not some shitty USB 2.0 device. An Avermedia Live Gamer HD would be far better for you.

So set monitor 1 to 60Hz and monitor 2 to 30Hz, both at 1920x1080p. Use x264 encoding on your streaming PC. Get rid of monitors 3 and 4. See if you can get that to work. If you can, then add monitor 3, and see if you can get it to work without the swapping problem. If you can, add monitor 4 (do you actually have a 4th monitor? Not sure) and do the same.

If all that works, then try setting your monitor 1 to 120Hz. And test again. If that works, try setting monitor 1 to 144 Hz, and test again.

Finally if all that works (or you found the limitation and set appropriately), try using the VCE encoding.

At some point this will fail, and then you'll know where the failure is.

Your Live Gamer Portable isn't capable of accepting a 1080p60 input. Only 1080p30. So don't send it a 1080p60 input.

I regret that I bought this piece of shit crap to capture card, but why would a PCIe capture card be better than a USB? Of course my capture card sucks because it can't capture at 1080p60 but is that because USB 2.0 can't handle it or is it just that the capture card is shit?

Wait, if I set my GPU to output 1080p30 to the capture card, I won't be able to record in 720p60 since it will only be 30 Hz? This means that my recordings will for sure look very laggy.

I only have two monitors and one capture card that acts like a third monitor.

Well, I will test what you say and see how it works.

 

[R1CH]

All USB 2 capture cards are pretty shit and should be avoided. PCIe is far, far better than any USB solution.

 

[Darker]

All USB 2 capture cards are pretty shit and should be avoided. PCIe is far, far better than any USB solution.

I see, but the problem with USB 2.0 is not that it cannot deliver 1080p60, is it? I mean USB 2.0 can deliver 480 Mbit/s and that should be enough for 1080p60, or am I wrong?

Anyway, if I decide to only stream in 720p60, shouldn't my capture card be able to do the job? I won't be able to stream in any better quality since I only have 3 Mbit/s upload speed. Ideally I would like to stream in 720p48.

 

[Darker]

@dping @Boildown

Here is a problem, Catalyst control panel won't let me choose the refresh rate of the capture card when I mirror it. If I use the capture card as an extended monitor, I can change it to 30 Hz and my main monitor to 60 Hz. But as soon as I mirror, the refresh rate to the capture card is set to 60 Hz.

 

[Boildown]

Yeah, that's a problem. The Avermedia Live Gamer HD will accept a 1080p60 input. But you might have the same problem if you try to go 120Hz on your monitor and 60Hz to the Live Gamer HD. You should test that part first (you can test it using your 2nd monitor).

USB 2.0 cannot deliver 1080p60. At least, there aren't any capture devices that will do it, so I must assume its a limitation of USB 2.0.

 

[Darker]

Yeah, that's a problem. The Avermedia Live Gamer HD will accept a 1080p60 input. But you might have the same problem if you try to go 120Hz on your monitor and 60Hz to the Live Gamer HD. You should test that part first (you can test it using your 2nd monitor).

USB 2.0 cannot deliver 1080p60. At least, there aren't any capture devices that will do it, so I must assume its a limitation of USB 2.0.

I will test it, but I am curious what the top streamers solution to this problem is. I mean nearly every top player who plays CSGO plays in or over 120 Hz, do they stream with one PC?

When I stream CSGO from my gaming PC with AMD VCE I can feel that something is slightly laggy. My FPS is over 200 when streaming but I still get microstutters or whatever I should call it.

Isn't there an ultimate solution for this? What about skipping the capture card and send the video through LAN?

 

[dping]

I will test it, but I am curious what the top streamers solution to this problem is. I mean nearly every top player who plays CSGO plays in or over 120 Hz, do they stream with one PC?

When I stream CSGO from my gaming PC with AMD VCE I can feel that something is slightly laggy. My FPS is over 200 when streaming but I still get microstutters or whatever I should call it.

Isn't there an ultimate solution for this? What about skipping the capture card and send the video through LAN?

The reason I had you try 720@60Hz for your mirrored setup is because the your card will do that and you can stream at that. Still waiting on your results. but yeah, exactly what boildown said minus the monitor stuff; I think he only has 2 real monitors and 1 capture "monitor" he mirrors the capture monitor with the one that can run 120Hz.


Simply put, I have your same card, and I stream 720@48fps on a single Pc setup. it works and looks decent with VCE.

even the live gamer HD doesn't stream 1080@60 so downscaling to 720@60 with that card still wont work.

 

[Darker]

The reason I had you try 720@60Hz for your mirrored setup is because the your card will do that and you can stream at that. Still waiting on your results. but yeah, exactly what boildown said minus the monitor stuff; I think he only has 2 real monitors and 1 capture "monitor" he mirrors the capture monitor with the one that can run 120Hz.


Simply put, I have your same card, and I stream 720@48fps on a single Pc setup. it works and looks decent with VCE.

even the live gamer HD doesn't stream 1080@60 so downscaling to 720@60 with that card still wont work.

Is there any point for me to try mirroring 720@60Hz? Because even if it looks perfect, I am too picky to play at only 60 Hz.

Yes, I have 2 real monitors and 1 capture "monitor", and I mirror the 144 Hz monitor with the capture card.

I have tried to stream with both QuickSync and VCE on the gaming PC but I get enough performance loss to make me annoyed. I simply hate to play if I can feel some microstutters or tiny bits of lag, which I do feel when streaming with a one PC setup.

I even tried to insert an additional R9 280X in the gaming PC (no crossfire) solely for encoding. Still got lag when streamed games.

 

[dping]

Is there any point for me to try mirroring 720@60Hz? Because even if it looks perfect, I am too picky to play at only 60 Hz.

Yes, I have 2 real monitors and 1 capture "monitor", and I mirror the 144 Hz monitor with the capture card.

I have tried to stream with both QuickSync and VCE on the gaming PC but I get enough performance loss to make me annoyed. I simply hate to play if I can feel some microstutters or tiny bits of lag, which I do feel when streaming with a one PC setup.

I even tried to insert an additional R9 280X in the gaming PC (no crossfire) solely for encoding. Still got lag when streamed games.

The whole idea to try that would be to find the culprit. In this case, I can only assume that it is the capture card seeing 1080 and immediately restricting to 30fps and that being the chokepoint.

Yeah I dont know for sure if that functions yet at the MediaSDK level @jackun having a encoding card and the other set to primary GPU. thats a ticket in the amd dev thing.

I'll think about it a little and get back with you to try.

 

[R1CH]

I see, but the problem with USB 2.0 is not that it cannot deliver 1080p60, is it? I mean USB 2.0 can deliver 480 Mbit/s and that should be enough for 1080p60, or am I wrong?

Anyway, if I decide to only stream in 720p60, shouldn't my capture card be able to do the job? I won't be able to stream in any better quality since I only have 3 Mbit/s upload speed. Ideally I would like to stream in 720p48.

Uncompressed 1080p60 is closer to 3gbps, USB 2 bandwidth is woefully insufficient. All USB 2 capture cards pre-encode the signal, lowering quality and adding significant latency and jitter.

 

[Darker]

Uncompressed 1080p60 is closer to 3gbps, USB 2 bandwidth is woefully insufficient. All USB 2 capture cards pre-encode the signal, lowering quality and adding significant latency and jitter.

Damn, I see. Then I assume that sending the video through LAN is not an option either, since it only can carry about 100 Mbit/s unless you buy some expensive gear?

So what should I do. Have I bought this LGP Lite bullshit vainly? There doesn't seem to be any 120/144 Hz capture cards on the market today.

 

[Videophile]

Yeah, that's a problem. The Avermedia Live Gamer HD will accept a 1080p60 input. But you might have the same problem if you try to go 120Hz on your monitor and 60Hz to the Live Gamer HD. You should test that part first (you can test it using your 2nd monitor).

USB 2.0 cannot deliver 1080p60. At least, there aren't any capture devices that will do it, so I must assume its a limitation of USB 2.0.

The HD60 does 1080p60 over USB 2.0, although it is compressed.

 

[Darker]

The HD60 does 1080p60 over USB 2.0, although it is compressed.

How much worse will the quality be in practice when it's compressed?

 

[Boildown]

Suffice to say you're better off with a USB 3.0 device or an internal card. I guess I was wrong about there being no USB 2.0 1080p60 devices though, if the HD60 can do it. But still what R1CH said is true, it adds latency and makes syncing your video to audio a royal pain.

The ALG HD can take a 1080p60 input but it can only record or stream at 1080p30, or downscale to 720p60 before streaming. The important part is that it can take a 1080p60 input. So if you determine with your 2nd monitor that your AMD graphics can do 120 or 144 Hz on one monitor, and 60Hz on the other, that capture card will work.

If you can't do differing Hz on each monitor, then you'll have to choose between playing at 60Hz, or getting a very expensive capture card, or doing lan streaming, or getting an Nvidia GPU (because it works with Nvidia).

 

[Darker]

Suffice to say you're better off with a USB 3.0 device or an internal card. I guess I was wrong about there being no USB 2.0 1080p60 devices though, if the HD60 can do it. But still what R1CH said is true, it adds latency and makes syncing your video to audio a royal pain.

The ALG HD can take a 1080p60 input but it can only record or stream at 1080p30, or downscale to 720p60 before streaming. The important part is that it can take a 1080p60 input. So if you determine with your 2nd monitor that your AMD graphics can do 120 or 144 Hz on one monitor, and 60Hz on the other, that capture card will work.

If you can't do differing Hz on each monitor, then you'll have to choose between playing at 60Hz, or getting a very expensive capture card, or doing lan streaming, or getting an Nvidia GPU (because it works with Nvidia).

Okay, maybe I should buy an ALG HD, I suppose you are talking about the C985 PCIe capture card? Do you know anything about the SC-512N1-L/DVI capture card? I've heard it's got lower latency and better video quality than the Avermedia card. But does the latency really matter? I mean the latency may be about 1 second but who cares about 1 second latency when Twitch has a 30 second latency? 31 or 30 seconds, no big deal.

People are already starting to upload 1080p60 videos to Youtube and maybe they will start supporting 120 FPS in the near future?