Question / Help 1080p downscale to 720p vs native 720p

[SeparatedZebra]

Hello, I haven't seen any other If topics on this. So if you use dxtory set to native 1280 720 and it captures your game at normal resolution At 1080. Would you see a better performance? than game capture 1080 downscale to 720p. If no one has any ideas I will do some test. Thank you for your time.

 

[R1CH]

You should avoid using DXTory, OBS game capture is more efficient. If you must use DXTory, downscaling there before OBS receives it will minimize the memory bandwidth used.

 

[SeparatedZebra]

Ok thanks why is dxtory so bad?

 

[R1CH]

Because it goes Video RAM -> CPU -> DirectShow -> CPU -> Video RAM. OBS goes Video RAM -> Video RAM.

 

[Joppsta]

Because it goes Video RAM -> CPU -> DirectShow -> CPU -> Video RAM. OBS goes Video RAM -> Video RAM.

I may be necro'ing an old thread but here is the reason why people decide to use DXTory with OBS, it is because DXTory is significantly better at hooking into games than OBS at the moment. I would gladly use OBS and only OBS if there was not so many headaches with hooking into games.

DXTory simplifies the issue.

 

[paibox]

While your post makes sense to some extent, it also doesn't. There are cases where DXtory is very useful, such as when capturing older games that use DirectX 7 or 8, but the difference in performance between the two is so big that you should be using Game Capture whenever you can.

Game Capture has had a hotkey feature for quite some time now, allowing you to hook games just like you would have done with DXtory.

 

[Lain]

You are correct, and I don't mind you pointing that out because it's true that OBS can conflict with other hook programs. However, if you are not using conflicting hook programs, and are running a directx 9+ or opengl game, OBS shouldn't usually have a problem. If you are using a laptop and it's a black screen issue, then it's just because you're using the wrong GPU with OBS. I know it's a pain, but it's much more efficient to use because there is no data moved off the GPU when capturing.

 

[Joppsta]

While your post makes sense to some extent, it also doesn't. There are cases where DXtory is very useful, such as when capturing older games that use DirectX 7 or 8, but the difference in performance between the two is so big that you should be using Game Capture whenever you can.

Game Capture has had a hotkey feature for quite some time now, allowing you to hook games just like you would have done with DXtory.

Here's the thing though, what you are perhaps not understanding, I would use Game Capture wherever possible if it worked as seemlessly as DXTory does.

If GC worked as DXTory does, ie, I start streaming and it's hooked into the game I choose or perhaps have it so you have it active and inactive.

By this I mean.. let's say I start streaming, I open with webcam to say hello and welcome people. Next I switch to my scene with game... but it's not capturing. This is because, as with DXTory, you have to activate it by pressing another key, if you get what I mean.

This is what I'd like in my mind. I guess an "integrated version" of DXTory. I like to be able to see my FPS whilst recording too so that's another reason to use DXTory in conjunction with OBS.

I might sound like a right fanboy right now but in my experience the DXTory/OBS combo hasn't failed me whereas pure OBS has proven to be a pain in the ass to work with. Maybe there's been improvements in patches but I have been using DT/OBS for a good while now.

 

[Joppsta]

I guess my only question is this:

Why have you guys not explored the option of integrating a DXTory-like hook system? I am no code monkey so apologies if this sounds very uninformed ^^

 

[dodgepong]

I see what you mean about the hotkey, in the sense that you can start the game capture on Dxtory before you start the stream, but if you don't use the game capture hotkey function and instead select the game from the menu, like the normal way of capturing a game, then the game will be captured as soon as you start streaming, so it will be available to you right away. So in that sense, I don't see how Dxtory still offers an advantage in terms of game captures being active when the stream starts.

I guess my only question is this:

Why have you guys not explored the option of integrating a DXTory-like hook system? I am no code monkey so apologies if this sounds very uninformed ^^

You'll have to explain what you mean by "Dxtory-like" in more detail, because thus far it still seems like OBS's native capture abilities should suffice for what you're trying to do, aside from the in-game FPS overlay and recording indicator.

 

[UberDragon]

So you would want an element in your scene, that works like game capture, but always automatically chooses the game you're currently playing? A plugin might be able to do this

Or do i get this completely wrong? I must admit it's somewhat hard for me to follow you fully.

 

[Joppsta]

I see what you mean about the hotkey, in the sense that you can start the game capture on Dxtory before you start the stream, but if you don't use the game capture hotkey function and instead select the game from the menu, like the normal way of capturing a game, then the game will be captured as soon as you start streaming, so it will be available to you right away. So in that sense, I don't see how Dxtory still offers an advantage in terms of game captures being active when the stream starts.

I guess my only question is this:

Why have you guys not explored the option of integrating a DXTory-like hook system? I am no code monkey so apologies if this sounds very uninformed ^^

You'll have to explain what you mean by "Dxtory-like" in more detail, because thus far it still seems like OBS's native capture abilities should suffice for what you're trying to do, aside from the in-game FPS overlay and recording indicator.

By DXTory-like I mean having FPS displayed in a corner of your choosing in a colour of your choosing when it's hooked into the game. I guess I'd like OBS to function not only as a streaming platform but also as a video recording platform. It does serve both purposes but after years of using Fraps and converting to DXTory, it feels dirty not having the FPS displayed somewhere in order to monitor how recording is affecting the performance of the game.

I'd say the way to resolve the whole having game captured before starting the stream issue, couldn't you have it so you are able to start game capture before starting the stream? That would fix that.

So you would want an element in your scene, that works like game capture, but always automatically chooses the game you're currently playing? A plugin might be able to do this

Or do i get this completely wrong? I must admit it's somewhat hard for me to follow you fully.

In a nutshell yes. I actually looked at the game capure thing for OBS and it seems to have something that resembles this but it acts rather... weird.

I am guessing it's experimental? http://i.imgur.com/9B14XKN.png

 

[dodgepong]

So, really, you just want an FPS counter and a recording indicator. Because the equivalent way of starting the capture of the game before starting the stream is to select the game in the drop down, not by using the hotkey method. It will hook and capture the game as soon as you start streaming.

 

[Joppsta]

So, really, you just want an FPS counter and a recording indicator. Because the equivalent way of starting the capture of the game before starting the stream is to select the game in the drop down, not by using the hotkey method. It will hook and capture the game as soon as you start streaming.

Well, yes and no.

I like seeing my FPS in-game at all times. If that means I don't have to have DXTory open and can just have OBS open 24/7 on my PC and when I feel like recording... well you get the idea.

My issue with having to "select the game in drop down" is that it's additional clicks that really can be saved by using DXTory. You don't have to think about it.

I know it's lazy, don't get me wrong here, but convenience with performance loss vs performance with inconvenience... I am the kind of person that selects the second. If I absolutely have to I would select the first but I see no need to.


Also another thing that bugs me with the hotkey is that I cannot toggle it on/off. I would like this ability personally... it's just a minor thing I guess and not really mission critical but I feel like it doesn't make sense that I can start capturing a window but I cannot stop.

 

[Boildown]

I like seeing my FPS in-game at all times. If that means I don't have to have DXTory open and can just have OBS open 24/7 on my PC and when I feel like recording... well you get the idea.

You can use FRAPS for this. It'll put the framerate counter in the corner of the screen you specify and if you never start it, the CPU impact will be practically nil. And if I'm not mistaken the trial version is all you need.

 

[dodgepong]

I guess the problem here is that you want OBS to be something that is simply is not. You want OBS to be a simple game recorder, but the fact is that OBS is a video mixer too. With Dxtory, you aren't thinking about scenes and layouts and multiple sources, but with OBS, you are. Dxtory automatically hooks whatever game you have focused, but in OBS, you could have multiple game captures in a single scene, which would mean they all would hook all of the games at the same time, which isn't what you want. And why would you need to toggle a game hook on an off in the middle of a recording? You want the game to go black?

I'll concede that not being able to hook a game with a hotkey before starting the stream is a bit funky, but given the added complexity of what you can do with OBS, I think the system it has right now is fine. If OBS were to be simplified to a Dxtory level of mindlessness, it would preclude several other features that people already find useful. Sure, it's "more clicks", but the net gain is that you can do a lot more cool things with OBS than Dxtory alone.

 

[Joppsta]

I guess the problem here is that you want OBS to be something that is simply is not. You want OBS to be a simple game recorder, but the fact is that OBS is a video mixer too. With Dxtory, you aren't thinking about scenes and layouts and multiple sources, but with OBS, you are. Dxtory automatically hooks whatever game you have focused, but in OBS, you could have multiple game captures in a single scene, which would mean they all would hook all of the games at the same time, which isn't what you want. And why would you need to toggle a game hook on an off in the middle of a recording? You want the game to go black?

I'll concede that not being able to hook a game with a hotkey before starting the stream is a bit funky, but given the added complexity of what you can do with OBS, I think the system it has right now is fine. If OBS were to be simplified to a Dxtory level of mindlessness, it would preclude several other features that people already find useful. Sure, it's "more clicks", but the net gain is that you can do a lot more cool things with OBS than Dxtory alone.

Well personally I cannot see where I would use multiple game captures in my own usage scenario.. but I am not saying that it's a bad thing.

Also, no they would not hook all of the same games at once, assuming you have one setup to use hotkey and the rest set to specific games. Of course, if you are setting something as complex as this up, you would probably be willing to invest the time to set it up.

And I would like the option of turning it on/off before going live, that is my main request... I just like to be in full control of a program. It is a bit weird to not have it toggleable but not mission critical. I guess I'm just going for intuitiveness here.

I agree the complexity of what you can do is fantastic, I'm not saying OBS is a bad program, it's a great program. I am using it to locally record and immediately uploading the files with my current setup.. something I couldn't do with Fraps or DXTory.

As for the "More clicks but you can do more with OBS than DXTory", sure I agree with that... but it could do more. I'm not complaining here... perhaps it seems like I am but I am just trying to get my point across.

I guess where I would take this debate elsewhere is why not have an additional hooking option that functions similar to DXTory with the Game Capture option left as it stands?

I just like this because if in the middle of a stream I decide "OK guys, let's play game X" I can easily switch without having to mess around at all with OBS. It's seamless. Seamless is good, we can all agree yes?

To conclude this series of thoughts though, something I hadn't thought about doing was setting up several different sets of settings for OBS so that I could, for example, have one for War Thunder another for Star Conflict etc. I think that's the approach I shall probably take.. but I would like OBS to have an FPS counter and recording indicator still. For those with single screen setups I'd say this is even more important.

- Joppsta

PS: Sorry for the essay.. I like to be thorough in my responses though.

PPS: I think one of the most important problems in my usage scenario as a local recorder is that it seems to have a lot of issues with providing files that Camtasia and Vegas can work with. I think compatibility for the files with those programs needs to be looked at but I guesss this is situational and probably more of an issue on the renderer's side than the recorder's.

 

[dodgepong]

Alright, how about this: one flaw in the way OBS works right now is that you can't transition from preview mode into recording mode. Instead, you have to stop the preview and then start the recording. The OBS rewrite will change this so that you are always previewing, and then you basically just turn on or off the recording. That will let you hook the game with the hotkey before starting the recording.

As for editing the files, make sure you are recording with CFR enabled and have up to date codecs on your system. Having said that, h264 isn't the best format for video editing, and the OBS rewrite will support recording locally in other formats.

 

[Joppsta]

Alright, how about this: one flaw in the way OBS works right now is that you can't transition from preview mode into recording mode. Instead, you have to stop the preview and then start the recording. The OBS rewrite will change this so that you are always previewing, and then you basically just turn on or off the recording. That will let you hook the game with the hotkey before starting the recording.

As for editing the files, make sure you are recording with CFR enabled and have up to date codecs on your system. Having said that, h264 isn't the best format for video editing, and the OBS rewrite will support recording locally in other formats.

Well I suppose that works.

Thanks for the discussion anyway, any ETA on the rewrite?

 

[dodgepong]

An initial alpha is expected sometime early this year. more details here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7736