What capture card to get to get clear feed?

Universal_Love

New Member
I love OBS ... have been using it for years for various things ❤️

Please be so kind to advise what HDMI video capture card should I get to get as clear of a video as possible?

1920x1080 is the output from my Win 10 laptop - it is going to another Win 10 laptop - I want to use it as a second monitor
in short my cards only give me the
Video Format: "MIPEG"

option
but I think I want and need

Video Format: "YUY2"

from
Win 10 (HP Elite G7) (screen is 1920x1200 - but I'm outputting to HDMI as a second monitor as 1920x1080)

to
Win 10 (Surface Laptop 2 Model 1769) (default resolution 2256 x 1504) I have Win 10 scaling set at 100% to get true

when I try various cards that I had - 3 so far they all produce not such a clear feed, especially for text

maybe it's my software setup

I do have the latest OBS and do follow the instructions:
Resolution/FPS Type "Custom"
Resolution "1920x1080"
FPS 60 BUT I do not have that option - I have: "Match Output FPS, Highest FPS, 30, 29.97 NTSC, 25, 24 film, 20, 15, 10,
Video Format: "YUY2" - BUT I have only "MIJPEG" - maybe this is the problem
Color Space Default
Color Range Default
Buffering: Auto-Detect

I'm pretty sure it - issue of getting only Video Format: "MIPEG" and not Video Format: "YUY2"

so far I have tried these cheap cards


what should I get? or do?
thank you
 

AaronD

Active Member
Yeah, cheap cards are probably not going to work. I wouldn't be surprised if it's even the same cheap chip in all of them (economy of scale), and the differences in functionality (what's broken about *this* one) are the result of haphazard mistakes in the surrounding circuit design or manufacturing. Not to mention that that chip is actually USB *2*, NOT USB 3 like the connector and all the hype about it. The USB 3 pins are there for the visuals, but not hooked up. Just don't.

And yes, MJPEG is dirt cheap, both in terms of licensing and processing power. And it's not very efficient in terms of quality per bitrate. It's simply a JPG still image of each frame, with no knowledge of the other frames. Proper video encoding takes advantage of the similarity between frames to dramatically increase its efficiency...but it takes a lot more effort to do that, and some encoders have not-so-attractive licenses too.

That said though, a capture card shouldn't be encoding/compressing at all! The cheap ones have to (and they use a terrible cheap method as mentioned previously) because they can't cram all of that data through the slow connection that they're actually limited to.

Anyway, set a minimum price of about $60 for a single-input USB 3 capture, and then look for name brands. Expect to spend about $80 to $120, depending on the market at the moment. Any name brand should be fine.
 
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Universal_Love

New Member
thank you any particular brands or products?

I am thinking to get


>Elgato HD60 X - Stream and Record in 1080p60 HDR10 or 4K30 with Ultra-low Latency on PS5/Pro, PS4/Pro, Xbox Series X/S, Xbox One X/S, in OBS and More, Works with PC and Mac

or


>AVerMedia HDMI Capture Card - Gaming, Video Streaming, 4K Capture Card for PS5, Xbox Series X/S, Xbox One, PS4, Nintendo Switch, Windows 11 / Mac Os12, HDR & VRR Support - GC551G2 Live Gamer Extreme 3
 

AaronD

Active Member
Either of those should be good. I've used both brands before, though not those specific models, and they both "just worked". However:

Only my Elgato one works on Linux. AVerMedia seems to have re-invented their own standard and then told Microsoft specifically, how it works, so that Windows can use it right away. They did not do the same for Linux, and because it doesn't use an existing standard (there are several), Linux doesn't know what to do with it.

There's an argument to be made here about reducing future e-waste by using existing standards, so that it will continue to work well after everyone's abandoned it, and you don't end up throwing away a perfectly good device just because nobody has a modern driver for it.
If you care about that, I'd recommend the Elgato.
 

Alan T.

New Member
Building on this thread a bit... there are some other concerns about Elgato capture cards when setting up professional workstations to dynamically control complex presentations. Two display captures (HDX 60) and a camera (Cam Link 4k) requires three separate USB 3.0 hubs... not ports... hubs! Many workstations come with two hubs, but often only one is USB 3.0 and the other is USB 2.0 for the slower keyboard and mouse.

Also, the lower-end Elgato capture devices don't support multi-app, so it isn't possible to run an OBS instance for streaming and another for recording without enabling Elgato's Stream Link and NDI... which introduces processor load and a small lag.

Yes, this can be solved with Elgato internal capture cards and a motherboard upgrade to expand the number of PCIe x4 slots, but the point is that the rabbit hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.

Does anyone know of any professional-grade equipment to get the same job dsone? Just curious if it is worth the price of higher-end gear if that reduces the setup pain.
 

AaronD

Active Member
Building on this thread a bit... there are some other concerns about Elgato capture cards when setting up professional workstations to dynamically control complex presentations. Two display captures (HDX 60) and a camera (Cam Link 4k) requires three separate USB 3.0 hubs... not ports... hubs! Many workstations come with two hubs, but often only one is USB 3.0 and the other is USB 2.0 for the slower keyboard and mouse.
That's generally only a problem for laptops, because the PCI bus isn't accessible and so you're limited to USB. If you happen to have an exception to that, that's awesome, but recognize that it *is* an exception and that the vast majority of laptops, including mobile workstations, are limited to USB and therefore have this problem.

It's actually even worse than you said, though I think you meant right. It's one capture per *controller*. You can't put a bunch of hubs on and get more captures with one on each.

Also, the lower-end Elgato capture devices don't support multi-app, so it isn't possible to run an OBS instance for streaming and another for recording without enabling Elgato's Stream Link and NDI... which introduces processor load and a small lag.
OBS has a virtual camera, that can be connected to anything. So if you're not using it for something else already, you can point it to a raw capture and use that to feed another app. Or you can send that app a processed version of it, or even something semi-produced if not entirely produced. At least fix some things in OBS before it continues on. For example, a cheap PTZ that got the sensor in upside down and the other app won't flip it, but OBS does.

For simultaneous streaming and recording, of course OBS itself does that with the same content. If you need different content for each, there's the Source Record plugin:
It creates a filter that you can put anywhere in OBS, and it records what it gets at that point.

Of course, if you're streaming and recording different content, you'll need a separate encoder instance for each. Some GPU's can do that, but not all. You might have to use the GPU for one of them and the CPU's integrated graphics for the other, or software encoding with careful settings to not bog down.

Yes, this can be solved with Elgato internal capture cards and a motherboard upgrade to expand the number of PCIe x4 slots, but the point is that the rabbit hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.

Does anyone know of any professional-grade equipment to get the same job dsone? Just curious if it is worth the price of higher-end gear if that reduces the setup pain.
At that point, I'd VERY STRONGLY recommend a desktop tower. If it still has to be portable, put it on a cart.

After trying and failing miserably with a BlackMagic card - their support couldn't figure it out either, and *I* finally noticed (they didn't) that no combination of their settings would actually give me the 4 simultaneous inputs that I needed, even just in theory - I ended up with an ACASIS for a lot less anyway. And it just worked! No settings, just 4 simultaneous inputs. Done!
But then when I reinstalled the same Linux OS (Ubuntu Studio, so not something obscure) on a brand new build with all new hardware except for that one card, and used the Linux driver that they had on the website, it would only do one input at a time. Like the even-cheaper security system cards that only have one real input and a 4-input switch to save costs. But I know that the ACASIS has 4 real inputs because it did that just fine in the previous rig.

So when I get back from this trip and can try things, I need to get on *their* support and see what's going on.
 

heartfeltno

New Member
if you want a clean, lag-free feed, I’ve had good results with capture cards using HDMI 2.0 or 4K passthrough (e.g., Elgato HD60 S+, AVerMedia Live Gamer). Make sure your setup supports “clean HDMI” (no UI overlays). What’s your resolution and frame rate goal?
 

AaronD

Active Member
Also, the lower-end Elgato capture devices don't support multi-app, so it isn't possible to run an OBS instance for streaming and another for recording without enabling Elgato's Stream Link and NDI... which introduces processor load and a small lag.
Reading this thread again the next day. That's actually a *Windows* problem, that by default doesn't send a single video source to multiple destinations. Ubuntu Studio Linux doesn't have that restriction. It's nice!

Historically, that limit existed for performance reasons, because it took a lot of the available processing power just to copy that much data in realtime. We're well past that now - modern hardware will hardly notice - but it seems that Microsoft hasn't gotten that memo yet.

For several reasons, that being one of them, I'd recommend Ubuntu Studio for a serious media production machine. I grew up on Windows, dual booted for a while, and finally switched completely to Linux a couple years ago. Haven't looked back.

If your content must originate on Windows, I guess that's fine if you're also willing to put up with M$'s shenanigans. But then run a physical wire to a capture device on the Linux production machine. "Separation of duties" like that, makes a world of difference too!
 

Alan T.

New Member
@AaronD I agree completely with your comments and thank you for the pointers to the Source Record plugin - I was using trick to record two 1080p sources as a single 3840x1080 output and then splitting the two feeds using Davinci.

Also, the suggest to use Ubuntu Studio is a good one. I am restricted to Windows source devices, but offboarding to one or more Ubuntu servers is feasible.

I was thinking that Windows was blocking two Elgato devices on the same USB hub due to bandwidth, but now I believe it is the Elgato drivers. I connected two Elgato USB devices to the same hub with pure black input, which should be minimal MJPG bandwidth. Either device by itself works just fine, but the moment two are connected, the Elgato 4K Capture utility displays USB connection error for one of the devices.

I'm looking forward to building a machine with Ubuntu Studio to compare against Windows.
 

AaronD

Active Member
I was thinking that Windows was blocking two Elgato devices on the same USB hub due to bandwidth, but now I believe it is the Elgato drivers. I connected two Elgato USB devices to the same hub with pure black input, which should be minimal MJPG bandwidth. Either device by itself works just fine, but the moment two are connected, the Elgato 4K Capture utility displays USB connection error for one of the devices.
I think it's the USB bandwidth itself that causes that, not the OS or the driver. Uncompressed FHD takes more than half the bandwidth that USB 3 is capable of, so more than one on the same bus requires that at least one can't get all of its data across. If it's designed to not compress ever (easier to make), then you'll probably get errors.
 

AaronD

Active Member
@Alan T. By the way, when you set up the Ubuntu Studio rig, take note of this:
(Actually read it. The solution is in there, along with some warnings about how not to do it wrong.)
 
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