Use for church worship?
- Thread starter RDR
- Start date
First, you need the computer itself to be able to drive as many different physical signals as you want to have physical displays. If two projectors/TVs do the same thing, that's one signal that gets split later, but if they're different, that's two signals. Add those up, including the control screen, and make sure that the computer itself can put something different on all of them.
The common term for this is "multi-monitor" or "extended desktop", and pretty much any graphics card (GPU) with multiple outputs can do that, and you'll want a good one to run OBS anyway. You're still limited to the number of outputs on that card, because it usually disables the built-in one. It's common to have 3 though, and that's probably enough:
Once you have the displays figured out, THEN you can look at how to drive them.
I would not use OBS to follow song lyrics or other fast-changing text. If you want to stay free, use OpenLP for that:
Open LP drives the displays directly, and OBS just picks up what it needs from there to stream and/or record. OpenLP really likes browser-based stuff, so you'll probably have a lot of browser sources in OBS, pointing to various URL's that OpenLP gives you to copy/paste, though I'd replace the IP address with "localhost" or "127.0.0.1" to make it more robust on the same machine. Start OpenLP first, and then OBS, or you'll probably have to manually refresh all of those browser sources once OpenLP *is* up. Likewise for any phones running the IP Webcam app or similar.
If OpenLP doesn't do everything for you, then you can look at using OBS as a "live TV mixer" in between. This gets to be a bit more tricky, and you're probably better off using two computers: one for OpenLP and one for OBS, with a physical capture card in between.
To get OBS's main output as a physical signal, you need to dedicate one of your displays to that in your planning, and then right-click the Program window in OBS:
It'll appear on the taskbar as another OBS window. Don't close it! Use the Exit button in the main window instead. And use this option in Settings -> General:
If you do close it (or someone else plays "whack-a-mole" or closes the group), then you can get it back as above, but you kinda have to know that. If you close it right, then it just works. Likewise for the Multiview, which you can get from here:
The common term for this is "multi-monitor" or "extended desktop", and pretty much any graphics card (GPU) with multiple outputs can do that, and you'll want a good one to run OBS anyway. You're still limited to the number of outputs on that card, because it usually disables the built-in one. It's common to have 3 though, and that's probably enough:
- Control
- Audience
- Confidence or Audience different
- Control (OBS)
- Stream Monitor (YouTube in Firefox, that shows what YT is actually getting, about 10 seconds behind)
- Copy of the stream, to show to the audience or confidence as desired
Once you have the displays figured out, THEN you can look at how to drive them.
I would not use OBS to follow song lyrics or other fast-changing text. If you want to stay free, use OpenLP for that:
Open LP drives the displays directly, and OBS just picks up what it needs from there to stream and/or record. OpenLP really likes browser-based stuff, so you'll probably have a lot of browser sources in OBS, pointing to various URL's that OpenLP gives you to copy/paste, though I'd replace the IP address with "localhost" or "127.0.0.1" to make it more robust on the same machine. Start OpenLP first, and then OBS, or you'll probably have to manually refresh all of those browser sources once OpenLP *is* up. Likewise for any phones running the IP Webcam app or similar.
If OpenLP doesn't do everything for you, then you can look at using OBS as a "live TV mixer" in between. This gets to be a bit more tricky, and you're probably better off using two computers: one for OpenLP and one for OBS, with a physical capture card in between.
To get OBS's main output as a physical signal, you need to dedicate one of your displays to that in your planning, and then right-click the Program window in OBS:
It'll appear on the taskbar as another OBS window. Don't close it! Use the Exit button in the main window instead. And use this option in Settings -> General:
If you do close it (or someone else plays "whack-a-mole" or closes the group), then you can get it back as above, but you kinda have to know that. If you close it right, then it just works. Likewise for the Multiview, which you can get from here:
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I thank you for your amazing information. It is obvious that you know what you are talking about. I do not understand it all but it is giving me a start. I thought I might be able to use OBS for the church, but after your discussion, I feel there is an easier program to use. All I need to do is have 3 Big Screen TVs mounted on the wall, 2 in the front and 1 in the back of the church, having the same image from a computer in our sanctuary. I would like to be able to project scripture and lyrics along with a camera aimed at the minister when he is speaking. Possibly having another camera aimed at the sanctuary. I use OBS in my studio when we go "live" on facebook. That is why I thought It could be used. It sounds more complicated then my ability. Thank you for your help. OpenLP looks promising. Thanks
You can see what we do here:
www.youtube.com
That's Proclaim for local projection, instead of OpenLP, driving the front two TV's through a splitter and the back one separately, plus a third different feed over NDI to OBS for the lower thirds. OBS only runs the stream and recording, not the local service.
faithlife.com
The NDI feed is full-screen, on top of the cameras, and sends transparent when or where it's not needed. OBS also hardware-captures the front-TV signal to use for anything full-screen. That allows better control than doing everything over the NDI connection, but also requires that anything full-screen NOT be on NDI, because it of course covers the cameras and takes away that control.
Proclaim is an ongoing subscription, while OpenLP is free. I suggested OpenLP to our team, as it'll do almost all of this too, in different ways, but there were just a handful of things that it doesn't do and Proclaim does, that we really liked, like the ability of anyone to sign in and edit it from anywhere, anytime. So the Music Director can put the songs in and tweak them from home, the Pastor can put his Scripture and illustrations in, someone else does the announcement slides, etc. And either the Broadcast Engineer (me) or the Projectionist dry-runs it all before the Full-Tech Rehearsal on Sunday morning, mostly to make sure that everything full-screen is NOT on NDI as I said above, and that everything else works too.
Sound comes from a post-fade auxiliary on the sound board, through a USB line input, as OBS's only audio source. (except for the welcome video that is played directly in OBS from a local file) Post-fade makes it follow the live adjustments, while still allowing it to be a different mix. And I have a TON of dynamic range compression, at several different points along the audio chain in that digital board, to convert a live mix into a broadcast one. (exactly full-scale - slam that meter! - no matter what's going on, without ever going over) That's already done before it leaves the board; the only processing in OBS is a Noise Gate to deal with the analog cable noise from the board to the line-in.
Lots of automation too, using the Advanced Scene Switcher plugin:
obsproject.com
Harvest Ridge Covenant Church Shawnee, KS
We are a church united in fellowship in Shawnee, KS. We exist to be a blessing in the world by advancing knowledge of God’s love and grace for all people. Our identity as children of God takes priority over our individual preference for worship style, political affiliations, ethnicity, and...
www.youtube.com
That's Proclaim for local projection, instead of OpenLP, driving the front two TV's through a splitter and the back one separately, plus a third different feed over NDI to OBS for the lower thirds. OBS only runs the stream and recording, not the local service.
Proclaim | Church Presentation Software
Proclaim is a cloud-based presentation software built specifically for churches, so you can design slides, create presentations, and record or stream sermons—without all the manual work.
faithlife.com
Proclaim is an ongoing subscription, while OpenLP is free. I suggested OpenLP to our team, as it'll do almost all of this too, in different ways, but there were just a handful of things that it doesn't do and Proclaim does, that we really liked, like the ability of anyone to sign in and edit it from anywhere, anytime. So the Music Director can put the songs in and tweak them from home, the Pastor can put his Scripture and illustrations in, someone else does the announcement slides, etc. And either the Broadcast Engineer (me) or the Projectionist dry-runs it all before the Full-Tech Rehearsal on Sunday morning, mostly to make sure that everything full-screen is NOT on NDI as I said above, and that everything else works too.
Sound comes from a post-fade auxiliary on the sound board, through a USB line input, as OBS's only audio source. (except for the welcome video that is played directly in OBS from a local file) Post-fade makes it follow the live adjustments, while still allowing it to be a different mix. And I have a TON of dynamic range compression, at several different points along the audio chain in that digital board, to convert a live mix into a broadcast one. (exactly full-scale - slam that meter! - no matter what's going on, without ever going over) That's already done before it leaves the board; the only processing in OBS is a Noise Gate to deal with the analog cable noise from the board to the line-in.
Lots of automation too, using the Advanced Scene Switcher plugin:
Advanced Scene Switcher
This plugin will allow you to automate various tasks using "Macros". Macros consist of a list of conditions under which a list of actions will be performed. Examples and guides can be found in the wiki. Feel free to contribute! If you run...
Lawrence_SoCal
Active Member
My personal $0.02. OBS Studio is a wonderfully powerful compositing tool, that is Free, Open-Source software (FOSS). FOSS implies responsibility on end-user to RTFM, take time to learn features, and somewhat self-support. If you want a support team you can call, that typically isn't free, and there are 'forks' of OBS Studio, and other software similar in functionality, that you can pay for and get hand-holding support. Just depends on your access to budget, onsite technical expertise, etc. Personally, I found OBS Studio to have a decent (to steep) starting learning curve, but once passed that, a joy to use. Though not available when I started, for a House of Worship (HoW), a nice guide book to OBS Studio would be https://streamgeeks.us/obs-superuser/ which is a free PDF download, or print version is available for purchase.
There are those of us here willing to help out, as volunteers, to get other HoW users started. I'm sure there are for-pay consultants available as well.
If I understand correctly, you are talking about a single TV image, shown on 3 screens. Though, the number of screens really isn't relevant (as you will most likely take a single video output on your computer, go to a splitter, and send same signal to however many TVs (3 in your case). There are numerous technical/physical ways to distribute that signal... just depends on distance, cable routing options, etc. The question is whether the output to on-site TV screens is the exact same video to livestream?
The level of complexity depends on many factors. For our House of worship, I set up a single Ethernet (NDI) connected PTZ camera, audio via existing Sanctuary mixer, and PowerPoint for our Service Bulletin (which has liturgy, scripture, music, and more). And, based on our user community 3 years ago, livestreaming is via Facebook. And I documented setup, operations, etc for a couple of non-technical folks I've trained as backups to me (and have run livestreams when I'm out of town). I can add extra cameras easily.
- In our environment, there is a printed Service Bulletin handed out to in-person attendees. That, and some extra content, is copied into a PowerPoint slide show. A one-person OBS operator (on a dual-screen computer in choir loft) runs our entire livestream system, advances PowerPoint, controls camera, etc.
- For Facebook, I recommend using Scheduled (vs ad hoc) Video Event, so you get a consistent URL for every livestream, enabling folks to save that URL on streaming device (Roku, Apple TV, etc) and be able to watch livestream on their TV (which is what a material portion of our attendees do).
- Regardless of using OBS Studio, vMIx, or something else, the operational level of complexity will be fairly similar.
- And don't ignore copyright considerations, to avoid getting your stream blocked (again, has nothing to do with OBS Studio, just livestreaming in general).
- [added] and you can get started with same audio as using in Sanctuary, BUT livestream audio, to sound good, especially on mobile devices, requires a slightly different mix that front-of-house speakers. This is a next-level sophistication step, but be prepared for complaints if you don't have a plan to address this relatively quickly
I would say, that doing a decent (professional?) looking and sounding livestream for a HoW service will take some technical expertise to setup, regardless of the software chosen to pull it all together. But once setup, and operators trained, on-going operations isn't that complicated (but certainly not toaster style easy-to-operate, and I'm not aware of anything that is that easy, that also offers sophistication of flexible, multiple inputs as your are asking for). It comes down to what you want to accomplish, and who you have available to set that up and run it, and long-term support (like who will run livestream system if you are out sick, etc). And taking a look at what your HoW is already doing, and can be leveraged for livestream. Though it can seem overwhelming initially, Personally, my preference is to identify full requirements up-front, and then figure out what is practical with available resources. It may well be that what you want is more complicated than you/your church can support, but something simpler is totally doable? Or, once you (and your team?) step through a plan, that it isn't that hard?
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YES!!! The legal environment for streaming is different from what it is for an in-person service. You're effectively a commercial TV station, with none of the benefits that a "Religious Service" provides. (legal term) Just because you're licensed to show lyrics in-person, does NOT necessarily mean that you're licensed to broadcast the music.
Another thing that took a while for our people to figure out, is that you can't just grab something off of YouTube and have the kids sing to it. As the Broadcast Engineer, I have to mute that. Sorry parents!
Whatever you broadcast, needs to have explicit permission or licensing, FOR THAT BROADCAST! The license that you have for the in-person service probably doesn't cover it. Several places offer a license, either as a blanket or for their own stuff, to stream as part of a church service specifically, but you still have to have that. I put our blanket license number in the description of the stream, and the individual license or invoice number as well for anything special.
Lawrence_SoCal
Active Member
thanks @AaronD on for the fuller explanation
In part, your worship style and music will impact copyright considerations. We have pipe organ and live choir using largely public domain hymns.. other examples include those with a band and more current/pop music (much more aggressive copyright enforcement by license holders). Worst (from a copyright for livestream perspective) is using pre-recorded popular music... that can be a real challenge .. there are numerous articles in last couple of years, YouTube videos, etc on this subject (HoW livestream music copyright).. Personally, I pushed dealing with license/copyright, etc to worship team, and I focused on technical aspect of livestreaming, and told them I wouldn't livestream anything without copyright license info provided to me (livestream team) in advance
As for what I've done to 'display' copyright info
- Our broadcast starts 5 minutes before service starts with a simple slide and camera view (20-30+ seconds) which becomes the video library thumbnail
- then I put up our copyright slide (for a 2-3 seconds, with our in-house and livestream license info). I suspect due to all live performances of largely old hymns, we haven't had a problem. But other styles/music has certainly led to blocked streams at other HoW
the above happens before anyone really has a chance to join livestream
- then a countdown page/slide, then a 3 minute pre-recorded video of HoW property/Sanctuary
- then into service content at top of hour as service starts
(ie, why I said printed service bulletin info, plus a little extra ;^)
In part, your worship style and music will impact copyright considerations. We have pipe organ and live choir using largely public domain hymns.. other examples include those with a band and more current/pop music (much more aggressive copyright enforcement by license holders). Worst (from a copyright for livestream perspective) is using pre-recorded popular music... that can be a real challenge .. there are numerous articles in last couple of years, YouTube videos, etc on this subject (HoW livestream music copyright).. Personally, I pushed dealing with license/copyright, etc to worship team, and I focused on technical aspect of livestreaming, and told them I wouldn't livestream anything without copyright license info provided to me (livestream team) in advance
As for what I've done to 'display' copyright info
- Our broadcast starts 5 minutes before service starts with a simple slide and camera view (20-30+ seconds) which becomes the video library thumbnail
- then I put up our copyright slide (for a 2-3 seconds, with our in-house and livestream license info). I suspect due to all live performances of largely old hymns, we haven't had a problem. But other styles/music has certainly led to blocked streams at other HoW
the above happens before anyone really has a chance to join livestream
- then a countdown page/slide, then a 3 minute pre-recorded video of HoW property/Sanctuary
- then into service content at top of hour as service starts
(ie, why I said printed service bulletin info, plus a little extra ;^)
The reason I put our license info in the description is because it's much easier to machine-search that. Video OCR is certainly possible, but I haven't seen an example of it yet, so I wouldn't rely on it to avoid an automatic block, regardless of legality.
For public-domain hymns being okay, legally that's true, and you'd probably win in court if it ever came to that. But in one of our hymn-sings a few years ago, I noticed that one of the old classics was copyright-claimed by someone who had a bunch of Chinese characters for a name. You can take that as you will... :-/
For public-domain hymns being okay, legally that's true, and you'd probably win in court if it ever came to that. But in one of our hymn-sings a few years ago, I noticed that one of the old classics was copyright-claimed by someone who had a bunch of Chinese characters for a name. You can take that as you will... :-/
Lawrence_SoCal
Active Member
Aaron - I agree your approach regarding posting copyright license info is safer, no doubt. In our scenario, it hasn't been an issue... as the old saying goes... your mileage may vary
Thank you so much for your great information.