OBS PTZ Optics 30x cameras Grey video feed occasionally

[merlin02131]

Greetings and Happy Thanksgiving Everyone !

New install and trying to figure out how to set up audio and video correctly :

I have set up a video feed for the cameras and it seems to be somewhat stable sometimes
Set up an audio input or output for the audio in ( Apologies as I can't remember but have it working with both set up on mic aux 4 )
On the OBS Screen , I get an occasional grey screen ( loss of video ) and choppy video pixels .
We are also streaming to You Tube but plenty of bandwidth etc.
Read some online help etc. but cannot seem to find the right fix
We have I believe mic to inline on the camera audio to the black magic design mini pro box ( Mic 1 ) as someone else from our church supplied the audio feed from our audio equipment and I need to have a conversation with the audio guy ( Our church and missed him last week )
Plenty of bandwidth etc. as we only stream about 4 mbps , however , task mgr last week showed a higher value of almost 15 mbps . Need to figure that out too . A ghost ?
Anyway the video is driving me crazy trying to resolve
Any help would be appreciated !

Thx

Regards

Rich

 

[merlin02131]

how fast is the ethernet ?
the cam did need gigabit network
what says the NDI Tools is the connection good ?
can you post an obs log and an screenshot from speedtest.net ? please make not only one test

Hi Cyclemat
Boy that was quick !
Thx for the reply !

300 down 35 up Comcast Business Bandwidth usually around 100 down and strong 30 up on Sunday mornings
The internal network is a gig speed ( 10/100/1000 Peplink router SOHO ) as we are new CAT 6 hard wired back to the router via a TPLink 1016 POE switch
NDI Tool ? Not familiar with this but I'll look it up
I can do that on Sunday as We broadcast lvie in the am

Thx and appreciate the response

FYI : I read somewhere as I am searching for this doc now that the audio input could pose an issue if not properly set up .
We did have questions about the set up for audio : Mic or inline so I believe we set up as a mic to the BlackMagic design mic 1 input ( Reading up on all the new equipment etc. )
Can that cause video issues as described ?
Again I am a rookie to OBS as just learning how to set this up with multiple Cameras and audio connections etc. . VOIP Engineer here so I know my way around some stuff but again new to all this !
Our old set up had one hdmi cam via hdmi to a pc and out . We just upgraded the whole network / camera network / cameras / equipment etc. last week !

 

[merlin02131]

Just figured out something interesting as I have the time this am to look at it :

Its not both cameras , just one !

When I add in stream one :

rtsp://10.1.10.9:554/1 I get a stream problem whereby it breaks up
When I change to stream 2 it works fine
I'll have to review settings and try to figure out the config and where I went wrong

I tried a suggestion here :

rasp://10.1.10.8/1 but that did not work as its supposed to stream via our NDI set up

So back to the drawing board as I may need ot reach out for some help on this one ..

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

You do NOT want to use RTSP if you can help it. NDI will have much lower latency, typically. Though there are some complexities with adding a NDI video feed into OBS (its not native, hence the above reference to NDI Tools.)
PTZ Optics has good documentation on setting up their NDI PTZ cameras with OBS. And using RTSP is NOT their default recommendation.
So I'd start there

Then, as for your first post.
- Streaming to YouTube, at I'm assuming 1080p30, I'd recommend more than 4mb/s bitrate. I send a 5mb/s 720p30 to FB for HoW services. So, if you have the bandwidth and PC horsepower, I'd be thinking closer to 8mb/w for your stream... ymmv
- I don't get your setup. Why are you using a Black Magic device?
- You seem to indicate with RTSP that you have a direct Ethernet data video feed from camera to OBS PC. And if you are feeding audio into camera, using a Black Magic device as a gain/level adapter, that can work. Though you could just as easily provide that audio feed straight into OBS PC (though you have to handle Audio/Video sync manually yourself, it also isn't a big deal)

For us, our NDI PTZ camera goes to PoE switch. OBS PC plugged into same switch. Switch connected to spare home router/firewall to isolate streaming PC and associated network from rest of the environment [because you don't know what else folks have done, and most folks don't practice safe computing, so better safe (streaming PC protected, stable, and reliable) than sorry (glitch mid-service you are unable to resolve immediately) my $0.02 anyway]. The other reason for isolating traffic to make it easier to identify/and establish QoS (Quality of Service) if you allow in-person attendees to use guest WiFi [terrible idea if not managed/monitored/restricted]. Why? super easy for someone to unwittingly interfere with livestream

As for audio, I suspect you are focused on getting something working. Once you do, then be aware that the next step is to keep people watching/attending. And for that, the audio has to be clear (more important than the video). So an important thing to realize is that your audio mix for in-house attendees, and for livestream viewers will almost certainly benefit from being slightly different. For example, for in-person, certain instruments don't need amplification. But things not mic'ed won't be clearly (if at all) heard remotely. We needed many more mics for livestream than needed for in-person. We use a Sub-mix on our mixer to accomplish this. Something to be prepared for/aware of. Other items that come into play are compression, as most livestream viewers are watching on devices with terrible speakers
As for Network traffic, Task Manager shows inbound and outbound network traffic separately. So, with expected 4mb/s stream and showing 15mb/s due to looking at Input (which would probably be the RTSP incoming stream) vs outbound traffic? If that 15mb/s was outbound traffic, then time for you to double-check your OBS stream settings, then look into what else was running. Resource Monitor would indicate which processes were sending the traffic. It might not have been OBS

 

[merlin02131]

You do NOT want to use RTSP if you can help it. NDI will have much lower latency, typically. Though there are some complexities with adding a NDI video feed into OBS (its not native, hence the above reference to NDOI Tools.)
PTZ Optics has good documentation on setting up their NDI PTZ cameras with OBS. And using RTSP is NOT their default recommendation.
So I'd start there

Then, as for your first post.
- Streaming to YouTube, at I'm assuming 1080p30, I'd recommend more than 4mb/s bitrate. I send a 5mb/s 720p30 to FB for HoW services. So, if you have the bandwidth and PC horsepower, I'd be thinking closer to 8mb/w for your stream... ymmv
- I don't get your setup. Why are you using a Black Magic device?
- You seem to indicate with RTSP that you have a direct Ethernet data video feed from camera to OBS PC. And if you are feeding audio into camera, using a Black Magic device as a gain/level adapter, that can work. Though you could just as easily provide that audio feed straight into OBS PC (though you have to handle Audio/Video sync manually yourself, it also isn't a big deal)

For us, our NDI PTZ camera goes to PoE switch. OBS PC plugged into same switch. Switch connected to spare home router/firewall to isolate streaming PC and associated network from rest of the environment [because you don't know what else folks have done, and most folks don't practice safe computing, so better safe (streaming PC protected, stable, and reliable) than sorry (glitch mid-service you are unable to resolve immediately) my $0.02 anyway]. The other reason for isolating traffic to make it easier to identify/and establish QoS (Quality of Service) if you allow in-person attendees to use guest WiFi [terrible idea if not managed/monitored/restricted]. Why? super easy for someone to unwittingly interfere with livestream

As for audio, I suspect you are focused on getting something working. Once you do, then be aware that the next step is to keep people watching/attending. And for that, the audio has to be clear (more important than the video). So an important thing to realize is that your audio mix for in-house attendees, and for livestream viewers will almost certainly benefit from being slightly different. For example, for in-person, certain instruments don't need amplification. But things not mic'ed won't be clearly (if at all) heard remotely. We needed many more mics for livestream than needed for in-person. We use a Sub-mix on our mixer to accomplish this. Something to be prepared for/aware of. Other items that come into play are compression, as most livestream viewers are watching on devices with terrible speakers
As for Network traffic, Task Manager shows inbound and outbound network traffic separately. So, with expected 4mb/s stream and showing 15mb/s due to looking at Input (which would probably be the RTSP incoming stream) vs outbound traffic? If that 15mb/s was outbound traffic, then time for you to double-check your OBS stream settings, then look into what else was running. Resource Monitor would indicate which processes were sending the traffic. It might not have been OBS

Hi Lawrence

Great stuff - Thx !
Cannot agree more on using NDI !

Yea I think we are getting there slowly as being a VOIP Engineer for me its a learning curve in re to the fine art of video/audio etc !
Used to reading the manual and getting it done !

Our biggest issue right now is trying to figure out how to set up SDI/NDI as I already built out the network ( Separate Vlans etc. and its own network as well -10.1.3.x camera network directly into a router interface port ) . I have no QOS tagging etc. enabled yet as we have not had the need to . I don't have any issue with the network except for Comcast ( No bandwidth on Sunday am's but its much better after 6 months of beating them up ) . I have been all over the internet searching for docs to set up SDI and NDI but can't find anything solid yet ( Rookie stuff - step 1 2 3 etc . ) . I opened up accounts for forums on ptzoptics and BlackMagicDesign ( Been a member here at OBS for about 18 months now also and folks here are fantastic ! ) !

The audio has been an issue but I believe we have that solved now as it seems to be working well with the internal amp and mic's off that amp direct to the blac magic mic input . I listened to the recording this week from Sunday Services and it was not bad ! Still trying to figure out how to review the black magic box ( Software etc. ) .

Why Black Magic design ? We were recommended by other churches to call B and H Video in New York and We did . They put this package together for us as We have 2 cameras plugged into the unit , and I am finding out now that we do not need some items sold to us like the camera joystick box as well. Live and learn I guess but we took their advice . So : Cameras are up and running on rtsp right now ( 720P/30 mbps on stream 2 via both ptzoptics 30x cameras ) and I need to learn the basics of SDI / NDI and how to etc. I also just found and added in a plugin tool for OBS for software control of the ptz cameras and it works well . So slowly getting there and again thanks !

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Why looking at /referencing SDI? Assuming SDI being the old-school, non-Ethernet (coax, if I recall correctly) video network approach.
If you mix video technology (ie NDI from 1 camera, and SDI, HDMI, USB, RTSP, or whatever from another camera), then you may end up needing to deal with varying video latencies.... more trouble that worth it. Think of it along the lines of routing a Stereo audio mix, with Left over wired Ethernet, and Right over WiFi.. terrible analogy .. I know..
Hopefully you mentioned SDI, but don't mean it, and that you plan 100% NDI video feed... much simpler that way
What is the purpose of the Black Magic box? which exact model? is it for audio only? or is it for non-NDI video input (SDI) as well?
If doing NDI, then a Black Magic Atem mini probably doesn't make sense (unless way under-powered OBS PC). Using NDI, typically video feeds straight to OBS PC, but that means PC has to render all video streams. If using Atem Mini (for sake of discussion) as a SDI video switcher, then OBS PC typically only sees 1 camera feed (the video feed selected on Black Magic device).

Network/Ethernet QoS most likely not required on segregated internal network. If you don't have any competing traffic during livestream, then great. Otherwise, you'll want a way to prioritize livestream over (most) everything else

The Camera joystick will be a nice to have once you mature to that point. You may use Presets most of the time, but things will come up where manually moving camera is desired, and keyboard control leaves a LOT to be desired

 

[merlin02131]

Good Morning Lawrence and Thx for the response !

Love your analogy !

NDI is the way we go .
We have set up for NDI but again here is where I lack the video understanding !

We are operating on the IP Stream right now as It was the only way that I could get it to work for now .

We were sold this solution from B & H Video as they said it was a very popular solution .
I DO see overkill with some hardware as well and question it .
I just this week started downloading all the info and am slowly putting it together . I was told I need a camera license for NDI so I need to contact B & H ( WTF ) as this should have been resolved back a month ago .

I will tell you I am confused on setting up NDI !

So , What We have :

PTZOptics 30x cameras to the Black Magic Design Atem Mini Pro handling both camera streams -Cam 1 & Cam 2 with a line in mic input we ran and works ok .
Adapters ( SDI/ NDI ? forgive my lack of knowledge on this ) change the coax run to both cameras into HDMI and plug into the Atem mini Pro ( Don't know how to view or control the Atem Mini as I just started working on this this week ) . When I use stream one at H265 it breaks up and gets nasty as it won't broadcast clearly . I have not enabled anything except for defaults and played around with a few NDI camera settings but could not get it to work .

The Joystick box runs on a serial connection and works once in a while - different story for now as in OBS I downloaded the software controls for ptz and they work pretty good !

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

A NDI license is typically required for the camera [Camera mfgs license NDI from NewTek]. For cost reasons, some folks buy a (PTZ) camera that is capable, but not licensed for NDI, and then buy 'upgrade' license later. But assuming you planned NDI from start, then camera should have been purchased with NDI license up front. This is a simple matter of checking what was ordered/delivered. With Black Magic Atem Mini Pro, I'm suspecting what was ordered was the non-NDI version of the PTZ camera (ie HDMI, USB, and SDI output ports on camera enabled). switching to using NDI would then be an 'upgrade' as NDI capability not purchased up-front. And using NDI means (most likely) not using the Atem Mini at all

For reference, with our Panasonic PTZ, I bought the NDI version of their camera. I didn't need any other 'license'. Now, if you want to use some more advanced NDI features, and therefore want/need some pay NDI software tools, then some of that may be extra cost (like the new NDI v5 Bridge)

Serial joystick... ugh, yea not what I've have recommended. If going NDI, see about returning/swapping the PTZ joystick for a compatible IP based model (VISCA over IP, i think). PTZOptics SuperJoy G3 is there top of the line, with a new firmware for NDI v5. PTZOptics livestream this Thursday will cover the new firmware for that controller

But as I read this, I suspect, what was ordered was an analog setup (video from camera to Atem Mini, and Serial controls). The livestream equipment list would be slightly different going straight NDI (and implications on PC horsepower requirements as noted earlier). And I'd have thought (nothing something I've worked with, so worth less than $0.02) is coax SDI out from camera you would NOT try and convert to HDMI then into Atem Mini. Rather I'd expect a long coax SDI cable from each camera straight into a video switcher (Atem Mini)... but I'm looking online and see Atem Mini Pro is HDMI inputs only.... so... no reason to use SDI unless cable length issue? If using SDI/coax out of camera, do you also have Black Magic's SDI to HDMI adapter [Mini converter]? If yes, then you have to be aware of SDI generation (1080p vs 4k, basically.. iirc) but if bought at same time should all match. I'd be upset if someone sold the church the 3G instead of 6G SDI version of the converter (negligible price difference. if I'm seeing Black Magic's site correctly, I'd be annoyed if what was purchased was SDI camera and then almost $200 SDI to HDMI converter (x3) as that price for the converter is similar to price of NDI upgrade and costs more than NDI setup when adding in cost of Atem Mini (if not otherwise wanted/needed)

 

[merlin02131]

Good Morning , Thx for the posting above ! Spot on in your assessment ! You made me think about this so I went out and rechecked the invoice . The Adapter is an SDI to HDMI not NDI . Also from Black Magic , I need to produce the serial number to obtain some of the software for the unit ( Black magic Converter ) so I have to wait until Sunday to obtain the S/N's . So the real question is why I cannot get HDMI to work over the adapters . I will need to rethink what I am doing . I have been so busy that this is a secondary project but I need to take the time to review and finish this project !

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

To be clear
- for NDI PTZ cameras, typical one orders the NDI model. That includes the NDI license, but you won't typically see reference to 'buying a license'.
- for non-NDI cameras that are upgradeable, you would order the NDI upgrade license for that specific camera (at least, that is what I saw with Panasonic, Sony, & PTZOptics)

As you have a networking background, and VLANs, subnets, ACLs, QoS, etc are not foreign concepts to you, If you were in a position to return the SDI-to-HDMI converters and Atem Mini, that's what I'd do (assuming PC powerful enough) and go NDI instead. But what you have with SDI simply implies a bunch of extra cables per camera (ugh) but otherwise similar camera function and image quality, so not terrible to work with what you have, especially if no plans to add additional cameras any time soon.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Oh, and back to original question/issue
- I'm assuming multiple SDI-to-HDMI converters (around $150-200ea), one per camera/SDI coax cable ['cuz I can't find a Black Magic converter model that takes multiple SDI inputs to multiple HDMI channels out unless you step up to something like BM's Teranex $1,700 converter ]
- each converter has its own settings page

So, first - make sure camera output settings are correct
Then SDI to HDMI converter settings to match
Then connection/settings on HDMI input on Atem Mini
then Video visible from Atem Mini... for this, I'd hook up a HDMI monitor to Atem Mini
make sure you can cycle all 3 cameras on Atem Mini and see appropriate image with camera movement on HDMI monitor
Then, and only then, consider PC and OBS

Now, I don't use an Atem Mini, so I could be way off here, but what I'd think would be the case is
- you have a USB3 (Type C, I believe) out of Atem Mini Pro to OBS PC
- You'd set up a Video Source in OBS and point to that USB source (making sure up-to-date BM drivers installed on PC)
for testing, the video signal out of the Atem Mini should show up like a webcam in any software, so try testing outside of OBS (Teams, Zoom, whatever including Windows own Camera app has video record function you could use)

Assuming you get that working
- you'd use Atem Mini to switch which camera feed to send to PC
- You could use IP based Plugin or Joystick, or ?? to control PTZ camera movement, depending on what you have available
If you already ran Ethernet cables, then I wouldn't bother with Serial cables/control (and I'd exchange Joystick controller for mode that works over IP. Or do you already have the PTZ Optics SuperJoy?) And to eliminate power cables, I'd go PoE

 

[merlin02131]

Hi Lawrence

Yea the Atem Mini connects to 2 of the sdi to hdmi adapters then to the atem mini , as it seems to be an issue and I need to figure out how to access it and check the settings , so I am going to start there . I do recall seeing in OBS " Black Magic Design " show up as a video source as that's what we selected . How ever the video is all choppy etc. Hence why I switched back to the ip stream for now .
OBS has a plugin I installed for software ptz control and it works pretty good , albeit a shaky hand here .
Not sure what the PTZOptics Super Joy is ..

You have great suggestions which prob Friday Night I may swing by the church and start working on those , and see if I can check some things out as I was thinking close to the same !

2 PTZ Optics 30X Cameras and I ran 3 cables to each , serial ethernet ( Cat 6) and coax for the SDI . I bought prefabbed cables so the ends would not be an issue ( Higher price but molded and no fuss ) . I see no use in the box with the joystick also but I'll leave it for now until we work thru the rest of the issues !

USB has me thinking as It may be using that for the atem mini video connection as I had thought it was hdmi connector but I could be wrong ( Set up video stream 1 - unplug hdmi first then usb next )

Upgrade/update Black Magic atem mini ( Priority to start )
Upgrade the PTZ Optics Firmware on the camera
Run some tests on the camera streaming but I did this before , it worked well , then during services it started getting choppy etc.

Again Thx for the tips !

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

PTZOptics SuperJoy is a joystick PTZ controller. Which make and model joystick controller did your church get?

As for your setup, and troubleshooting - I suspect drawing/mapping out each cable & connection to/from each device (camera, SDI converters, Atem Mini to PC) will help