Question / Help Need Video Editors for H.264 I444 ( High 4:4:4 Predictive)

[NasaNhak]

So I have been experimenting with OBS' I444 color space and found the videos look very much on par with what is present on screen. Details in red/redish colors are not lost in this mode. In other modes, the red/redish objects are blurred.

Now H.264 in I444 uses High 4:4:4 Predictive YUV 8-bit color format. The problem, after days of research, is that most video editors do not support this mode. DaVinci Resolve free (not Studio) fails to even load the video (I am told paid Studio version might be able to) and Premiere Pro shifts the colors to 4:2:0 where upon the blacks look darker, whites look brighter and the resulting video is worst than had I recorded using NV12 4:2:0.

Now I can transcode my OBS recording to DNxHR/ProResbfor 444 format, import into Resolve/PremierePro, edit, export as same, then ffmpeg it into yuv444p color format. However, a 60 minute 12 GB video turns into ~150 GB DNxHR/ProRes. So obviously working this way with 4-6 hours of recordings quickly becomes impossible unless I get like 200 TB of disk space.

So is anyone else out there recording in I444 and editing their videos easily? Is there some workflow I can follow that would help save time and space?

 

[koala]

How do you intend your videos to be consumed? If you intend them to upload to some video website like Youtube, you don't need a 4:4:4 workflow, because they get recoded to 4:2:0 anyway by the website.
Usually, it gives best results if you use the same color space during the whole production pipeline, i. e. record with 4:2:0, edit with 4:2:0, player with 4:2:0.
4:4:4 is used in professional/commercial environment such as movie production. But for the ordinary streaming or Youtube uploading it's not feasable, because consumer tools are not built for it. It's already an issue to handle full or partial color space correctly.

Usually, the common cheaper tools (< 500 Euro) expect 4:2:0 partial color space material, produce such, and have issues with something else.

 

[FerretBomb]

Pretty much this, aside from the slight conflation of color sampling vs color space modes. While I'm a proponent of maintaining maximum quality through the workflow as far as possible, unless you're planning to output this to a TV spot or similar, it really isn't feasible to work in 4:4:4 without pro-grade tools and an end-to-end full RGB444 production pipeline.

 

[NasaNhak]

How do you intend your videos to be consumed? If you intend them to upload to some video website like Youtube, you don't need a 4:4:4 workflow, because they get recoded to 4:2:0 anyway by the website.
Usually, it gives best results if you use the same color space during the whole production pipeline, i. e. record with 4:2:0, edit with 4:2:0, player with 4:2:0.
4:4:4 is used in professional/commercial environment such as movie production. But for the ordinary streaming or Youtube uploading it's not feasable, because consumer tools are not built for it. It's already an issue to handle full or partial color space correctly.

Usually, the common cheaper tools (< 500 Euro) expect 4:2:0 partial color space material, produce such, and have issues with something else.

Aah okay, I should have specified. I mean to archive gameplay for games I like cause usually YT cutscenes tend to be lower quality than what I would like.

I am aware that most players/YT use 4:2:0 but like I mentioned Premiere Pro is causing color shifts with H.264 I444 video but not with a transcoded ProRes/DNxHR 444. Similarly Resolve does not load a H.264 I444 but will load the transcoded ProRes/DNxHR 444.

Working with a 12 GB 1 hour vid turning into ~150 GB ProRes/DNxHR, editing, then exporting again to a 100 GB ProRes/DNxHR before final encode into H.264 I444 is just not feasible for 6 hours of footage or more of cutscenes/story based ganeplay.

My concern is regarding H.264 I444 4:4:4 format (which is highly unsupported) and whether there is any editor/workflow that can use it in a time efficient manner.

If not then why even have that option (which is the only almost lossless color format for H.264) in OBS. I mean if it can't be edited while retaining the chroma then what's the point of recording in it right?

 

[NasaNhak]

Pretty much this, aside from the slight conflation of color sampling vs color space modes. While I'm a proponent of maintaining maximum quality through the workflow as far as possible, unless you're planning to output this to a TV spot or similar, it really isn't feasible to work in 4:4:4 without pro-grade tools and an end-to-end full RGB444 production pipeline.

I understand BUT I can play the video in MPC-HC and it looks perfect. Almost 100% to what the gameplay looks like, no blurring around reds, no vaseline effect that plagues gameplay videos on YT (or any in 4:2:0).

I only intend to record gameplay/story/cutscenes of games I enjoy for archival purposes, to be enjoyed at high fidelity whenever I want. Storage space for the videos themselves is not a problem (12 GB per hour) but storing any intermediary formats for editing is (100+ GB per hour, imagine 6 hours of 72 GB of recordings turning into 7,200 GB just to import them properly into Resolve/Premiere Pro). Not to mention the hours to transcode to and from those intermediary formats.

 

[koala]

If not then why even have that option (which is the only almost lossless color format for H.264) in OBS. I mean if it can't be edited while retaining the chroma then what's the point of recording in it right?

I use the really lossless settings of OBS for creating screenshots of beautiful locations in games I play. For creating, I use Nvidia DSR for doubling the monitor resolution (thus rendering resolution of the game), set fps to 5 in OBS, then recorded the game location and moved around with camera and character. After that, I single-step through the slideshow-like video frame by frame and chose the best frame as still image/screenshot. It's also very good if you have a game with interesting animations to catch as still image. It enables you to exactly choose that one frame where the composition of animation, character and surroundings looks best. Since these are usually high motion, nothing except lossless will get you the perfect screenshot.

 

[FerretBomb]

I only intend to record gameplay/story/cutscenes of games I enjoy for archival purposes, to be enjoyed at high fidelity whenever I want. Storage space for the videos themselves is not a problem (12 GB per hour) but storing any intermediary formats for editing is (100+ GB per hour, imagine 6 hours of 72 GB of recordings turning into 7,200 GB just to import them properly into Resolve/Premiere Pro). Not to mention the hours to transcode to and from those intermediary formats.

Well now I just have to ask how many game cutscenes last an hour, much less six hours.

More on-topic, just checking to be safe, but are you recording to MKV or FLV and remuxing to MP4 for use with Premiere/Resolve? Both are very well-known for having significant problems with mp4 files recorded directly by OBS, while working fine with remuxed-from-mkv versions. Color-shift, stuttering playback, failed scrubbing, missing audio, even outright crashing, while the remuxed versions work fine. I've also had a ton of issues with Resolve, and have moved over to using Vegas instead.

 

[NasaNhak]

I use the really lossless settings of OBS for creating screenshots of beautiful locations in games I play. For creating, I use Nvidia DSR for doubling the monitor resolution (thus rendering resolution of the game), set fps to 5 in OBS, then recorded the game location and moved around with camera and character. After that, I single-step through the slideshow-like video frame by frame and chose the best frame as still image/screenshot. It's also very good if you have a game with interesting animations to catch as still image. It enables you to exactly choose that one frame where the composition of animation, character and surroundings looks best. Since these are usually high motion, nothing except lossless will get you the perfect screenshot.

Did not think of this and sounds like an awesome idea. Will try this out myself. Thanks!

 

[NasaNhak]

Well now I just have to ask how many game cutscenes last an hour, much less six hours.

Not really but a majority of games these days use exposition and surprise cutscenes as you are playing. You can't really keep turning recording on and off with OBS every time a cutscene/dialogue starts cause OBS does not have any recording indicator and sometimes the hotkeys may not be pressed properly or whatever and you aren't even recording or you never stopped recording.

For example take Batman Arkham Knight which has so much minute detail that is lost in a 4:2:0 color space and which has side missions starting at random points in gameplay, cutscenes when you don't expect them, so much dialogue like the Joker sitting on top of buildings everywhere. Modern Warfare 2019 has exposition as you are playing the game and sometimes goes into cutscenes.

It is convenient to just keep recording and then later edit out the gameplay keeping the story stuff in.

are you recording to MKV or FLV and remuxing to MP4

Yes that is the first thing I learned about OBS.

Color-shift, stuttering playback, failed scrubbing, missing audio, even outright crashing, while the remuxed versions work fine

So it seems Resolve Studio version is indeed the way to go for editing H.264 4:4:4 videos. At least that is what I have come to since there is zero info on the format and what editors work with it.

That being said I am willing to try Vegas Pro too since it actually costs less than Resolve Studio for me, on sale right now at least. Guess I'll try that out too.