Need Suggestion For Second dedicated PC stream machine to resolve pixelation issues!

[zeedoxx]

Hello to the OBS community. This past month i have tried experimenting with streaming and i would like your input in some problems i have faced!
First of all i have 2 PCs.
Gaming rig has -
CPU-i5 11600k
GPU-rx 6700 xt

Streaming rig has-
CPU-i7 7700k
GPU-1060 3gb
Currenrly i use ndi to transfer video to stream pc but planning to buy an elgato4k but i have no prolbems with ndi minimal latency no audio problems but it does have a minimum impact in cpu intensive games.
My upload speed is around 12mbps and the max bitrate i tested without problems is around 8000.But i ussually use 7000 since i read a lot that twitch is capped?
My goal is to achieve a 900p60fps stream at twitch with no pixelation.

So my experimenets are .
-using x264 .Best my cpu(7700) could do is 900p60fps at faster maybe fast at 7000bitrate.Stream is watchable but since i play Warzone and other fast paced games it gets pixelated a lot.
-using Nvenc from my pascal chip at p7 preset High profile 7000bitrate 2 sec interval 2 b frames .Stream is really pixelated as soon as i move not even running in game.Stream for me is unwatchable.(maybe i do someting wrong? maybe old pascal chip cant really do nvenc like the new ones?)

So what i would like to know is: How can i minimize pixelation . In what should i invest . Cpu that can do slow? or a 30series card with the dedicated nvenc encoder.If there is a better option but maybe more expensive i would like to know it maybe it is worth saving for since i want the best quality for my stream.
Any input would be great.My opinion is i want a stream i would watch and currenrly thats not the case i value qualty a lot .

 

[sandrix]

First, the maximum bitrate on Twitch is 8500 kbps, including audio. That is, the maximum you can use is around 8200, but I recommend just specifying 8000.

Yes, Pascal is worse than Turing and Ampere. Pascal requires 15% more bitrate for H.264 than newer graphics cards.
On Pascal encoder of the 6th generation. Turing, Ampere on the 7th.

Video Encode and Decode GPU Support Matrix

Find the related video encoding and decoding support for all NVIDIA GPU products.

developer.nvidia.com

When it comes to quality, the favorite is x264 on the medium preset and below. If your processor can handle it, then use x264.

For example, here is my comparison of nvenc (turing) vs x264. The tests were carried out in accordance with NVIDIA regulations

In general, the best thing you can do is to use 8000 kbps bitrate. If you choose between x264 and NVENC (Pascal), then unfortunately, I do not have objective data.

 

[rockbottom]

You have an 11600k, go into your BIOS & check to see if you can enable your UHD 750 iGPU so you can off-load the encoding to it. Leave the PCI-e GPU as Default.

Monitor your stream with the old PC, use it as a file server, give it to the kids....

 

[rockbottom]

This may or may not help depending on your BIOS, settings are buried & not the easiest to find.

ROG Z690 SERIES BIOS Manual

Advanced >

System Agent (SA) Configuration >

Graphics Configuration
The items in this submenu allow you to select a primary display from CPU Graphics, PEG
Graphics devices, or PCIe Graphics devices.

Primary Display
Allows you to select the primary display from CPU Graphics / PEG Graphics / PCIe
Graphics device.
Configuration options: [Auto] [CPU Graphics] [PEG Slot] [PCIE]

iGPU Multi-Monitor
Set this item to [Enabled] to empower both integrated and discrete graphics for multi-
monitor output. iGPU shared system memory size will be fixed at 64M.
Configuration options: [Disabled] [Enabled]

 

[zeedoxx]

First, the maximum bitrate on Twitch is 8500 kbps, including audio. That is, the maximum you can use is around 8200, but I recommend just specifying 8000.

Yes, Pascal is worse than Turing and Ampere. Pascal requires 15% more bitrate for H.264 than newer graphics cards.
On Pascal encoder of the 6th generation. Turing, Ampere on the 7th.

Video Encode and Decode GPU Support Matrix

Find the related video encoding and decoding support for all NVIDIA GPU products.

developer.nvidia.com

When it comes to quality, the favorite is x264 on the medium preset and below. If your processor can handle it, then use x264.

For example, here is my comparison of nvenc (turing) vs x264. The tests were carried out in accordance with NVIDIA regulations
View attachment 88997
In general, the best thing you can do is to use 8000 kbps bitrate. If you choose between x264 and NVENC (Pascal), then unfortunately, I do not have objective data.

First of all thank you all for your answers!
So sandrix would you suggest investing in a ryzen 7 build like 5800x/5900x probably would cost around 450-550$ where i live or at a 1660 super at around 280$ for my streaming pc.
Also ! I found yesterday that when streaming to twitch when i put above 7500kbps i seem to drop frames not really the case with YT tho so i think the problem its from twitch's side maybe they really have a cap for new accounts?So i dont think 8000kbps is really realistic

This may or may not help depending on your BIOS, settings are buried & not the easiest to find.

ROG Z690 SERIES BIOS Manual

Advanced >

System Agent (SA) Configuration >

Graphics Configuration
The items in this submenu allow you to select a primary display from CPU Graphics, PEG
Graphics devices, or PCIe Graphics devices.

Primary Display
Allows you to select the primary display from CPU Graphics / PEG Graphics / PCIe
Graphics device.
Configuration options: [Auto] [CPU Graphics] [PEG Slot] [PCIE]

iGPU Multi-Monitor
Set this item to [Enabled] to empower both integrated and discrete graphics for multi-
monitor output. iGPU shared system memory size will be fixed at 64M.
Configuration options: [Disabled] [Enabled]

my fault there i have a KF not K so no onboard gpu .But still i would like to achieve the best quality possible so im willing to buy new equipment i dont necessary want to use the one i have couse i know that its gonna be mediocre at best!

 

[zeedoxx]

Here is a video from my yesterdays test stream !

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

www.twitch.tv

I used Nvenc (best quality ) at900p60fps with 7000 kbps. Thats the best quality i have achieved i think. Watachable but not desired. I would like something like 20% better image quality!

 

[sandrix]

I see a large number of pixels in uniform areas. Looks like you disabled Psycho Visual Tuning or am I wrong?

No, twitch does not impose any bitrate restrictions on streamers.

However, what you should be aware of is that most of the time you won't have transcoding as you are a beginner streamer. That is, viewers will not be able to select a lower resolution of your stream, where a lower bitrate is fixed, but only the source.

In this regard, viewers who have a slow Internet may have problems playing your broadcast.
In general, your goal is to become a companion and after that it is rare that you will not have transcoding.

Twitch Help Portal

help.twitch.tv

As far as hardware is concerned, you definitely shouldn't invest in it just yet, as it might be a premature decision. Instead, focus on getting started streaming regularly and what you have to offer your viewers, as well as promoting your channel and designing it.

If we talk about prospects, then I would prefer Ryzen 5800x for streaming PC. Its performance is quite enough to use the Very Slow preset.

Also, you need to solve the problem with your Internet. 8000 kbps is really important. Check the speed to the servers and choose the best one with this utility

TwitchTest | r1ch.net

Test your upload bandwidth and connection quality to Twitch

r1ch.net

 

[zeedoxx]

I see a large number of pixels in uniform areas. Looks like you disabled Psycho Visual Tuning or am I wrong?

No, twitch does not impose any bitrate restrictions on streamers.

However, what you should be aware of is that most of the time you won't have transcoding as you are a beginner streamer. That is, viewers will not be able to select a lower resolution of your stream, where a lower bitrate is fixed, but only the source.

In this regard, viewers who have a slow Internet may have problems playing your broadcast.
In general, your goal is to become a companion and after that it is rare that you will not have transcoding.

Twitch Help Portal

help.twitch.tv

As far as hardware is concerned, you definitely shouldn't invest in it just yet, as it might be a premature decision. Instead, focus on getting started streaming regularly and what you have to offer your viewers, as well as promoting your channel and designing it.

If we talk about prospects, then I would prefer Ryzen 5800x for streaming PC. Its performance is quite enough to use the Very Slow preset.

Also, you need to solve the problem with your Internet. 8000 kbps is really important. Check the speed to the servers and choose the best one with this utility

TwitchTest | r1ch.net

Test your upload bandwidth and connection quality to Twitch

r1ch.net

Psycho Visual Tuning yes i disabled it ,also look ahead. Maybe try enabling it again? My most recent upload speedtest sits at 10.9mbps little lower than usual maybe thats the why ? but still should it not be able to handle 8000kbps? Your suggestions seem very logical of course best thing is to try build , promote , my channel and become somewhat regular . But before you know starting all that i want to at least finalize my stream settings/setup at a reasonable quality and then focus on all the things you said.
I have a budget of around 500 to spend so thats why im asking the best things to invest. I have found a crazy deal on an elgato 4kmk2 at 120 euro.5800x mb/ram combo would be at 400 . so just close to my budget !
-Another more reasonable opotion would be to upgrade my gamin rig with the 5800x an use the i5 for my stream machine? So win win. But would it be capable of it? Lastly my region only has 10-12 mbps uploads no matter the network provider or plan so if i want a better connection i would have to move houses so not really an option.....!So im trying to maximize my quality at 7000-8000kbps!

 

[sandrix]

For shooters your settings should look like this

As tests have shown, P6 QRes and P7 QRes are absolutely identical

Video

Well, you have several options. Buy Ryzen 5800x for main PC and use i5 11600k for stream PC. I think that he should cope with the medium preset. Or you can just sell the GTX 1060 and buy a used Turing graphics card like the GTX 1660. That would be the cheapest option, but just as efficient. Again, see the table, you need at least a 7th generation encoder.

 

[zeedoxx]

For shooters your settings should look like this
View attachment 89012
As tests have shown, P6 QRes and P7 QRes are absolutely identical

Video
View attachment 89011

Well, you have several options. Buy Ryzen 5800x for main PC and use i5 11600k for stream PC. I think that he should cope with the medium preset. Or you can just sell the GTX 1060 and buy a used Turing graphics card like the GTX 1660. That would be the cheapest option, but just as efficient. Again, see the table, you need at least a 7th generation encoder.

Yes ill think ill just buy the ryzen and we will see how it goes ! worst case senario i sell my i5 combo with the 1060.

Another topic you might can enlighten me is the capture cards. So as i said i have found a used 4kmk2 for 120 . But i have also found a brand new HD60 pro for 70 euro. My main monitor is 2k 165hz. Is the 4kmk2 the only way ? or can the HD60 pro be used also?
Meaning can i game at 2k 165hz but send signal to my 1080p60 capture card without issues!

 

[sandrix]

My opinion is that HD60 Pro will only be enough for twitch, trovo. If you plan to record videos or stream to youtube in higher resolution in the future, then of course 4K60 Pro MK.2

HD60 Pro can be used too. You will still be able to play at 2K 165hz and stream at 1080p 60 as long as you connect the connectors correctly. The 4K60 Pro MK.2 will simply let you stream native 2K 60fps and has more options.

 

[zeedoxx]

My opinion is that HD60 Pro will only be enough for twitch, trovo. If you plan to record videos or stream to youtube in higher resolution in the future, then of course 4K60 Pro MK.2

HD60 Pro can be used too. You will still be able to play at 2K 165hz and stream at 1080p 60 as long as you connect the connectors correctly. The 4K60 Pro MK.2 will simply let you stream native 2K 60fps and has more options.

I understand.Thank you very much. I will keep posting further updates in case someone finds himself in a similar case senario!

 

[rockbottom]

Good news, your up & running.

I always look for a way to shorten the audio/video chain to be as short as possible as it's only as strong as it's weakest link & using a iGPU would have eliminated lots of extra links.

 

[zeedoxx]

Good news, your up & running.

I always look for a way to shorten the audio/video chain to be as short as possible as it's only as strong as it's weakest link & using a iGPU would have eliminated lots of extra links.

Of course thank you for giving your input.Currenrly im trying to figure out the weakest link and trying strengthen it!

 

[zeedoxx]

My opinion is that HD60 Pro will only be enough for twitch, trovo. If you plan to record videos or stream to youtube in higher resolution in the future, then of course 4K60 Pro MK.2

HD60 Pro can be used too. You will still be able to play at 2K 165hz and stream at 1080p 60 as long as you connect the connectors correctly. The 4K60 Pro MK.2 will simply let you stream native 2K 60fps and has more options.

So in my quest to trying to figure out the best settings i have encountered many more questions than answers ..

So i did the bandwith test with the rich tool. Best server i found was Milan(2) with 45 ms and 8600kbps bandwith.But some times i can do 8000kbps without problems but some times it just cant. safest bitrate i can put is 7000kbps but i see it spike to more than that in obs.
In youtube i can safely stream with 9000kbps no drops no problems probably i have not really good connections with twitch servers as with google's

Keeping in Mind that i can only put 7000kbps at CBR for stable connection with twitch.

--Can my 936p60fps look sharp?(minding that im gonna stream with turing nvenc or with x264 very slow in the future)
Also reading documentations about obs,encoders etc i have come to the understanding that B-frames and key interval are vital to maximaze quality at a lower bitrate.
So do you think i should change these setttings ?

 

[koala]

Do a line of test recordings with variated settings and see what will work out best for you.

Sending your video to a streaming service is independent from encoding the video, so it's not necessary to actually stream to verify the video quality. Do a recording with the encoder called "(use streaming settings)" and you get exactly the video quality that is streamed for your local recording. This way you can work out the best quality with encoding settings independently from working out network issues or network constrains. It's also faster to check a locally recorded video afterwards than to click through some VOD on the streaming website.

 

[zeedoxx]

Do a line of test recordings with variated settings and see what will work out best for you.

Sending your video to a streaming service is independent from encoding the video, so it's not necessary to actually stream to verify the video quality. Do a recording with the encoder called "(use streaming settings)" and you get exactly the video quality that is streamed for your local recording. This way you can work out the best quality with encoding settings independently from working out network issues or network constrains. It's also faster to check a locally recorded video afterwards than to click through some VOD on the streaming website.

thats actually good advice since i was streaming and checking on my other pc!Recording will help!

 

[zeedoxx]

Hello again . So i went i ahead and got an 1660 super really cheap to try turing.I must say i saw an improvement but around 5-10%.
This is my yesterdays stream https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1665897236 .
Here i was using around 6700-7000 bitrate at 936p. Quality has improved a bit but i guess 7000 bitrate can only doo so much. Is there any tweak-setting that can give me even more quality . I dont care about gpu perforcmance-impact since i only use my 1660 for encoding/recording.
Keep in mind im using ndi right now to transfer video/audio from gaming to streaming pc.
i see that ndi reduces quality a bit. Not really that much but it does. So maybe next thing is a capture card.
Question--My main monitor is 1440p 165 hz. So i send 1440p60fps footage over ndi to streaming pc and then downscale it there. Do you think i should downscale at gaming pc obs and then send 936p60 signal and leave it like that at streaming pc? From technical standpoint what makes more sense.

Quality only suffers when playing Warzone since its fast paced, streaming other games like league is excellent.

 

[sandrix]

So it is, you will not get a significant increase in quality. 15% bitrate savings on Turing means about 10% better quality. I didn't use NDI because there are problems with it. A capture card is what you need. If you used the settings I suggested earlier, then this is the maximum you can get from NVENC H.264. Modern dynamic shooters in any case will look bad on the stream, because. that's just how video encoding works. The better the graphics in the game and the more dynamics, the worse the quality and vice versa.

 

[zeedoxx]

Yes ill stick to what i have for now.And maybe if i see it will go the route of capture card.NDI is great with me i have 0 issues besides 5%loss of quality and somewhat impactt on my gaming cpu since it does have to pack and send the data even at 200mbps. No sync issues no network issues no audio issues no need to change displays refresh rates etc i see pretty good benefits over cc.,Its really important to invest to a gigabit swithc even unmanaged it makes all the diference
As a viewer would the quality bother you? Meaning if the content was good would you watch the stream as it is .Just an opinion my friends say its great and i agree that for a streamer starting is enough!