Need help with input lag

[xSuperMario64x]

hi there,

so this isn't normally an issue with games I play, but I've been noticing some input lag while playing Mario Kart Wii. I was playing last night and I felt like I was going crazy because I'm generally really good at playing the game, and I was playing so poorly I couldn't even beat the normal staff ghosts on some courses. Just to test it, while on the Wii home menu (viewing in OBS) I hold my remote still and jolt it suddenly a few times, and when comparing that with having the Wii directly plugged into the TV I can definitely see some input lag.

some things to keep in mind:
- I have my computer plugged into my TV through a VGA cable (I was experiencing even more lag when I used an HDMI cable instead of VGA)
- my Wii is plugged into an AVI-to-HDMI box, which is then plugged into my computer with a Vivitar capture card
- my current setup has it so that the signal for the Wii first goes through the box/capture card, through my computer, then onto my TV

what can I do to reduce/eliminate input lag? I really want to record myself playing MKWii but the lag makes it nearly impossible. Is there a way that I can plug the Wii's composite cables directly into the TV, and then record the audio/video from the TV onto the computer with OBS Studio? If I could do this I imagine there wouldn't be any input lag because the Wii's video signal is going straight into the TV, instead of having to go through the box/capture card and computer before getting to the TV.


also I'm sorry if this isn't the right place to ask a question like this, it's pretty frustrating to deal with and I'm not tech savvy so I can't figure it out myself.

help is much appreciated, thank you :)

 

[AaronD]

There will always be a delay through every digital processor. (technically every analog processor too, but that gets into a discussion about phase-shifts and possibly even the universe being inherently digital because quantum......)

Anyway, as you theorize, the way to eliminate the delay in the critical path is to eliminate the digital processing in that critical path. Tap off for the recording / stream / whatever, but that tap doesn't come back. Several different ways to do that.

The one that stands out to me at the moment is to use a capture card that has a direct unchanged passthrough in addition to the PC connection. Conceptually, you can think of it as a 1-in 2-out splitter, where one of the outs is external and the other is internal to feed the converter. (I have one of those on USB, and it needs USB power to make the passthrough work, so be aware of that possibility if you go that way)
You could also do the same thing with a discrete splitter and a non-passthrough capture device.

 

[xSuperMario64x]

The one that stands out to me at the moment is to use a capture card that has a direct unchanged passthrough in addition to the PC connection. Conceptually, you can think of it as a 1-in 2-out splitter, where one of the outs is external and the other is internal to feed the converter. (I have one of those on USB, and it needs USB power to make the passthrough work, so be aware of that possibility if you go that way)
You could also do the same thing with a discrete splitter and a non-passthrough capture device.

would you mind sharing with me the capture card you mentioned? maybe a link to it so I can look at specs/pricing?

also, would it be possible at all to plug an HDMI cable into the TV, plug the other end into the capture card and then into the computer, and have OBS pick that up? I'm not sure if it would work since I assume the HDMI ports on a TV are inputs and not necessarily outputs.

 

[EliTooCold]

There will always be a delay through every digital processor. (technically every analog processor too, but that gets into a discussion about phase-shifts and possibly even the universe being inherently digital because quantum......)

Anyway, as you theorize, the way to eliminate the delay in the critical path is to eliminate the digital processing in that critical path. Tap off for the recording / stream / whatever, but that tap doesn't come back. Several different ways to do that.

The one that stands out to me at the moment is to use a capture card that has a direct unchanged passthrough in addition to the PC connection. Conceptually, you can think of it as a 1-in 2-out splitter, where one of the outs is external and the other is internal to feed the converter. (I have one of those on USB, and it needs USB power to make the passthrough work, so be aware of that possibility if you go that way)
You could also do the same thing with a discrete splitter and a non-passthrough capture device.

Could you help me out bro?

 

[xSuperMario64x]

I can't edit my posts so I drew out what I think may work for the set-up I have:

1. the Wii's composite cables plug into the box which converts it to HDMI
2. the HDMI cable then runs from that box to an HDMI splitter
3. one side of the splitter has an HDMI cable going to the TV, the other side has an HDMI cable going to the capture card (which then goes into the computer)


would this set-up work and not give me any input lag? or at least give me negligible lag (not so much that it affects gameplay like it has been)?

 

[AaronD]

would you mind sharing with me the capture card you mentioned? maybe a link to it so I can look at specs/pricing?

It was cheap on Amazon. Technically I could go back and look, but it's old enough to be pretty well buried in the rest of my history.

And I'm getting disillusioned with the bottom end of the price range anyway. Yes, they (usually) work, in the sense of giving "a picture", but even the ones that actually have the pins for USB 3 (not all do) still enumerate as USB 2 only and operate at that speed. To make that work, to cram HD video through USB 2, it JPEG-compresses each frame as a quick-and-easy form of lossy compression. (called MJPEG, for Motion JPEG, and that's pretty much all it is) If you've seen the "fuzzies" on a JPG photo, that's also what it does to each frame of your video, before it even gets to the PC at all. The passthrough should be fine - the splitter operates on pixels and sync's, not even whole frames - but the PC connection is not really all that good if you look at it closely. It works better for a "real world" camera than for a computer-generated game.
Plus, my camcorder has an interlaced output on HDMI, and instead of proper de-interlacing, it reports a smaller frame size than what it really is, and OBS treats it accordingly. It's not stretched, just smaller than it should be. 1920x1080i from the camcorder becomes 960x540p by the time it gets to OBS, but 1920x1080p from a PC comes through correctly. A composite video signal is always interlaced, so I wouldn't be surprised if your HDMI output is too.

It seems to me now, that to do it *well*, as in de-interlacing correctly and not throwing away detail in the card itself, requires name-brand hardware at ~$100 per input. I have two in the mail now - a USB one for my rig, and a PCIe one for a different project - so we'll see what those do. The market feels too new to me for the knock-offs to match the name-brands yet. (but I'll be glad when they do!)

also, would it be possible at all to plug an HDMI cable into the TV, plug the other end into the capture card and then into the computer, and have OBS pick that up? I'm not sure if it would work since I assume the HDMI ports on a TV are inputs and not necessarily outputs.

Lots of projectors have a video output, probably so a presenter can see what's on the wall behind them without turning around. But I don't think I've seen a TV with a video out. If you can find a projector with an HDMI out, then that might be an option as well.

I can't edit my posts so I drew out what I think may work for the set-up I have:
View attachment 91436
1. the Wii's composite cables plug into the box which converts it to HDMI
2. the HDMI cable then runs from that box to an HDMI splitter
3. one side of the splitter has an HDMI cable going to the TV, the other side has an HDMI cable going to the capture card (which then goes into the computer)


would this set-up work and not give me any input lag? or at least give me negligible lag (not so much that it affects gameplay like it has been)?

That should give you the same lag as it would with just the Wii, converter to HDMI, and the TV. As I said above, the splitter operates on pixels and sync's, not even whole frames, so it shouldn't add anything noticeable. And that's the only addition to the critical path.

---

HOWEVER! Given that diagram, that shows that the Wii is always composite anyway, you might instead look for a composite splitter, or even try your hand at making one. It's a fast enough signal that you can't just run a pile of single-conductor spaghetti around the room like you can with analog audio, but slow enough to forgive most amateur constructors. And it's only 1 wire plus ground.

Then you use the composite input on the TV, and either a composite capture card or convert it to HDMI *just* for capture.

 

[AaronD]

Could you help me out bro?

That says nothing. If you need more than what's already here, you'll have to provide more to work with.

 

[xSuperMario64x]

That should give you the same lag as it would with just the Wii, converter to HDMI, and the TV. As I said above, the splitter operates on pixels and sync's, not even whole frames, so it shouldn't add anything noticeable. And that's the only addition to the critical path.

---

HOWEVER! Given that diagram, that shows that the Wii is always composite anyway, you might instead look for a composite splitter, or even try your hand at making one. It's a fast enough signal that you can't just run a pile of single-conductor spaghetti around the room like you can with analog audio, but slow enough to forgive most amateur constructors. And it's only 1 wire plus ground.

Then you use the composite input on the TV, and either a composite capture card or convert it to HDMI *just* for capture.

so basically, the Wii's composite cables go into a splitter, then one set of cables goes into the TV while the other set goes into the AV-to-HDMI box and the capture card? I may be able to do something like that until I can afford an Elgato capture card.

 

[AaronD]

so basically, the Wii's composite cables go into a splitter, then one set of cables goes into the TV while the other set goes into the AV-to-HDMI box and the capture card? I may be able to do something like that until I can afford an Elgato capture card.

Yep!

I even had a 2x RCA cord with piggy-back splitter jacks on one end, before I used it in a project somewhere. So those exist too, but they're somewhat rare in my experience. Maybe you can find one?

It's really not that hard to make a passive splitter though. Not for these signals anyway. Just get the connectors and some wire, and stick 'em together. The only real hazard is melting plastic with a way-too-big soldering gun.
Or you can start with pre-made RCA cords and modify from there. If you do that though, you're likely to find that it's actually (a cheap attempt at) a coax. You need to be a little bit more careful with those, to not just cut off the outer braid (that's your ground), and not let the one whisker that you didn't see on the other side short it out.

 

[xSuperMario64x]

Yep!

I even had a 2x RCA cord with piggy-back splitter jacks on one end, before I used it in a project somewhere. So those exist too, but they're somewhat rare in my experience. Maybe you can find one?

It's really not that hard to make a passive splitter though. Not for these signals anyway. Just get the connectors and some wire, and stick 'em together. The only real hazard is melting plastic with a way-too-big soldering gun.
Or you can start with pre-made RCA cords and modify from there. If you do that though, you're likely to find that it's actually (a cheap attempt at) a coax. You need to be a little bit more careful with those, to not just cut off the outer braid (that's your ground), and not let the one whisker that you didn't see on the other side short it out.

I don't really trust myself to jerry-rig wire setups haha
I found this one online that I may be able to use:

hopefully it works okay


I appreciate your help a lot :)

 

[AaronD]

I don't really trust myself to jerry-rig wire setups haha
I found this one online that I may be able to use:

hopefully it works okay


I appreciate your help a lot :)

That should do it.

 

[EliTooCold]

That says nothing. If you need more than what's already here, you'll have to provide more to work with.

I had made a post myself ima just copy and paste it to you.

Hey everyone I am pretty knew to OBS but I’ve spent countless hours getting the settings down for my streaming/recording, my external microphone etc. I have everything set and ready to go but when I went back to watch my recording, whenever I’m shooting my gun in COD for an extended period of time like 3 seconds+ then the audio bar starts to dampen, and the gun shots audio starts sounding weird. Then when I stop shooting every other audio in the game is fine. Im going to attach a video to give a better understanding of what I mean but I am asking anyone to please help me. This has been really frustrating and I’ve been trying to find a solution on YT.

Link: https://youtube.com/shorts/aYtpnOWbzds?feature=share

 

[AaronD]

I had made a post myself ima just copy and paste it to you.

Hey everyone I am pretty knew to OBS but I’ve spent countless hours getting the settings down for my streaming/recording, my external microphone etc. I have everything set and ready to go but when I went back to watch my recording, whenever I’m shooting my gun in COD for an extended period of time like 3 seconds+ then the audio bar starts to dampen, and the gun shots audio starts sounding weird. Then when I stop shooting every other audio in the game is fine. Im going to attach a video to give a better understanding of what I mean but I am asking anyone to please help me. This has been really frustrating and I’ve been trying to find a solution on YT.

Link: https://youtube.com/shorts/aYtpnOWbzds?feature=share

That's nowhere near what we're talking about here. Why did you even bother here?

Anyway, here's a link to that thread; don't corrupt this one.

Trying to record MW2 but the Gun shot audio is weird

Hey everyone I am pretty knew to OBS but I’ve spent countless hours getting the settings down for my streaming/recording, my external microphone etc. I have everything set and ready to go but when I went back to watch my recording, whenever I’m shooting my gun in COD for an extended period of...

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