Looking for RCA/Video capture/USB-C device

AaronD

Active Member
OK, I searched on Amazon for USB switches and didn't find one that has 3 USB inputs and one USB output. Most are for two computers to share the same USB devices. As above, I want to connect the switch between the Behringer and IO Data devices and a single USB output.
Are you looking for a USB hub? The only difference is that all of the devices are connected simultaneously, instead of losing all but one.

Generally, for a media rig, there's enough going on already that all has to work RIGHT NOW!!!, that you don't need the complication of the computer mishandling a hardware change. So you keep everything connected all the time to avoid that, and prevent it from sleeping if it has that function.

The reason to not use a USB hub for video if you can avoid it, is not so much about the hub itself, but to limit the amount of data that a single USB controller has to handle. Each controller is only good for one video stream at a time. Controllers are different from ports: most machines have only one or two controllers, with internal hubs to serve all the ports. It's the controllers that matter, not the ports. Internal hubs are no different from external ones.

Because of where USB is in the chain, there might be multiple simultaneous streams just from having the devices connected, even if they're not used, so that might be a reason to use a switch instead of a hub, as long as the hardware-change itself doesn't cause problems. But there's hardly any market for that type of switch, because a hub does just fine in the vast majority of situations.
 
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AaronD

Active Member
OK, this is the latest and greatest USB switch. It can connect two USB devices (Behringer and IO Data) to one USB output. I hope it Works.

In order to provide enough flexibility to reach into the niche use, it has to violate the USB spec for the connectors, just so you know.

The A-type connector is supposed to be on the host only, with a controller or hub behind it. Nothing else. It's not supposed to be used the other way, and that switch uses it all around, presumably with an adapter cable to fix it back up again, which also violates the spec itself: no host-only to host-only cables.

It still works okay - I have a hard drive adapter like that - as long as you treat the violated connector as if it were proprietary and not try to combine it with anything else. But you have to *know* that, and not expect things to "just work" solely because they happen to fit, which is a big part of what USB was supposed to do.
 

MaineMan

New Member
Thanks. I don't really understand violating USB specs or what it means to connect USBs from the host only, with a controller or hub behind it.

It just dawned on me that I can connect the Behringer and the IO Date cable to separate USB input ports on the desktop. Effectively, selecting the record device in OSB will be the switch.
 

qhobbes

Active Member
@AaronD my guess is that the USB plugs into the source (camcorder, to save space) and then you plug the RCA cables into your TV. Alot of the information on that Amazon listing seems "incorrect" but it's listed as USB to RCA, not RCA to USB.
 

MaineMan

New Member

AaronD

Active Member
@AaronD my guess is that the USB plugs into the source (camcorder, to save space) and then you plug the RCA cables into your TV. Alot of the information on that Amazon listing seems "incorrect" but it's listed as USB to RCA, not RCA to USB.
That makes sense. Twisted sense, on the part of the manufacturers - for wrecking the idea that USB is trying to go for, that if something fits with their stuff, "it just works" - but still sense. Cheap connector, I guess, with no further consideration.

(USB itself is digital only. If you plug a dumb wiring adapter from something analog into an actual USB port, it won't work, and may even end up damaging something in some cases, if multiple things violate the spec at the same time, in common ways.)

Yes. There's supposed to be an approval, but practically there's not. Anyone can sell anything, and it's up to the ignorant consumers to not buy the bad stuff despite it being cheap and "working". So it stays on the market.

See the teardown videos on YouTube, of counterfeit phone chargers, for a more spicy example. Those can kill you. Seriously.

What you're playing with here, doesn't carry that risk, but it's still not what the original engineers intended.

It just dawned on me that I can connect the Behringer and the IO Date cable to separate USB input ports on the desktop. Effectively, selecting the record device in OSB will be the switch.
Yes. You don't need a switch in that direction, hence the complete lack of standards-compliant ones.

Thanks. I don't really understand violating USB specs or what it means to connect USBs from the host only, with a controller or hub behind it.
USB is rigidly a single-master, multiple-slave system. Or, single-host, multiple-device, as USB calls it. Slaves/devices don't talk except to answer the master/host. No arbitration, because the single master/host controls everything.

Because of the complete absence of arbitration, it doesn't work to connect two masters/hosts together. They'll just talk when they want, over each other, and get nowhere. Maybe even damage something. Thus the prohibition on host-only to host-only cables.

Once upon a time, there were USB file transfer cables that appeared on the surface to do exactly that, but the way they would have had to work is to be a slave/device for each master/host, and then transfer data between the two internal slaves/devices. That's what the "bump" or box was for in the middle of the cord. They could not have been straight-through wiring adapters.

Anyway, the master/host controls everything, and the module that does that is called the host controller. A hub turns one port into several, and is also entirely controlled by the host. The entire tree has to fit within the data rate of a single port, because that's all the controller actually has. (If a controller itself has multiple independent ports, we call that multiple controllers, and they appear as such in the computer's Device Manager. So the logical structure still holds, even in that case.)

There's a sort of "contract" between host and device, and sometimes the device presents a choice of "contracts" for the host to pick from. One of the "clauses" in that "contract" is a certain update rate. That is, the host will ask periodically, at that rate, if that device has anything to send, and then give it the space to send it. If several of those "contracts" add up to more than what a single USB port can handle, as in the case of several video streams, we have a problem, even if you're not actually using all of them.

It's up to the device to say, "I don't have anything to send." The host is still required to ask. And it makes the device's firmware easier, to eliminate things that make it behave any differently at all. So it very well *could* spew out a video stream, even if you're not using it. Thus the recommendation to only have one video device physically attached to each host controller, regardless of hubs or ports.

There's also a sleep mode, but it's not always used while the host is running, and works almost the same as if you unplugged the sleeping device. So there's still the problem of the computer mishandling a hardware change, because it effectively *is* a hardware change. It's really designed to not drain the host's battery when the host is turned off, and doesn't have the circuitry to turn the ports' power off.
 

MaineMan

New Member
Well, my mistake. Since I am using Audacity to record LPs and cassettes, I should have limited my comments here to recording VHS tapes.
However, the Behringer UFO202 connects the turntable to a USB port and works great. I recorded a cassette connected directly to the computer's sound card with good results but I will see if using the Behringer as an interface improves the sound quality.

The IO Data video capture card will be in on Friday and we will post the results here.
 

MaineMan

New Member
I ordered the I/O Data GV–UBS2 but then saw there was a newer model, /E listed for VHS tapes. Other audio websites say the GV-USB2 works well with VHS tapes. Subsequently I found other variations such as /HQ. Anybody know the difference between the various IO Data models?
 

AaronD

Active Member
Anybody know the difference between the various IO Data models?
Nope. But from the Amazon listing I found, it looks pretty shady. No regard for the actual heading titles, just spam whatever keyword optimization they want in there, heavy Chinglish, and the pictures of how to use it require a non-Western mindset to figure out what they're trying to say, not to mention using Chinese characters exclusively where words are required.

It's possible that I got a bad listing, but I wouldn't be surprised either if the only difference between models was in fact the model number, to get around people's blacklists. That happens too. And the perceived difference is just poor quality control.

If you want something that can be expected to work well, and not by accident, you need to get out of the sort-by-price gutter. Take the community recommendations, even if they cost several times more. You'll end up paying less that way overall, and you won't have a pile of things that don't work.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
OK, I searched on Amazon for USB switches and didn't find one that has 3 USB inputs and one USB output. Most are for two computers to share the same USB devices. As above, I want to connect the switch between the Behringer and IO Data devices and a single USB output.
For future reference for others who may come across this thread
- I'd expect USB 'Switches' to be as you found. I happen to be using such a USB Switch now (4-Computers, 4-port USB hub) as Monitor supports multiple inputs, and USB Switch is SO much cheaper in for a single monitor setup like than a proper modern KVM... of which I have a couple of older analog models)
- As Aaron mentioned, the connect multiple devices to a single computer in this context is referred to as a 'USH Hub' not Switch.
- I'll skip the whole historical technical hub vs switch in networking.

In MaineMan's scenario, I suspect a USB 'switch' is NOT required, or even truly desired, with a caveat as Aaron mentioned about time slicing even without input. In this specific case, the issue I'd consider is whether the multiple connected sources (LP, cassettes, and VHS) would all be on, even if only using 1 at a given time (in which case even if you aren't using all 3 inputs simultaneously, the USB system is still processing all of the data (even if all O's ex turntable powered on, but not currently playing anything).

So, I'd be inclined, while using OBS Studio to record from 1 device, to leave other devices powered off, or USB unplugged... just to be safe.
> I want to connect the turntable, tapedeck, and VCR to a three-input AV switch with one output. This will eliminate having to connect each device as needed.​

Realistically, a decently engineered USB 2.0 hub (and PC's USB Root Hub) should be able to simultaneously handle a single 480i video and 2 other audio inputs without issue. I would NOT bother with the potential compatibility issues of a USB 'switch' in this scenario (unless situation is
- other devices would often (usually) be plugged in 'hub' and on, though in use for other purposes (ex listening via stereo system)
But putting some color tape and large label on each USB input would make connecting/dis-connecting the separate input devices a non-activity
(from my perspective... understood this is not what is a stated desire/rqmt)
- AND, issues had arisen with multiple devices connected, and chosen USB Hub had been ruled out as cause (possibly other USB devices on PC and PC's USB Root Hub)
then I'd consider a switch... but not before

Sorry if I overlooked this... but if using a single device for audio-only input, into own USB port on PC, and a separate device for VHS/RCA video capture plugged into its own PC USB port... not sure why need for USB Hub/Switch at all? unless using 2 separate audio devices vs a multi-input analog audio to USB capture device?
 

MaineMan

New Member
most of these capture-sticks use only half of all the interlaced-frames, but some of them use both. if you want to know something about the quality you can get with different hardware you maybe you should watch this:
for me it's helpful and it's easy to understand...
Well, that was awesome. I got the IO Data GV-USB2 working, but following the OBS setup video improved the video quality. Thank you. Now, I have to write down each setting step by step to ensure every recording is set up correctly.
 

MaineMan

New Member
Nope. But from the Amazon listing I found, it looks pretty shady. No regard for the actual heading titles, just spam whatever keyword optimization they want in there, heavy Chinglish, and the pictures of how to use it require a non-Western mindset to figure out what they're trying to say, not to mention using Chinese characters exclusively where words are required.

It's possible that I got a bad listing, but I wouldn't be surprised either if the only difference between models was in fact the model number, to get around people's blacklists. That happens too. And the perceived difference is just poor quality control.

If you want something that can be expected to work well, and not by accident, you need to get out of the sort-by-price gutter. Take the community recommendations, even if they cost several times more. You'll end up paying less that way overall, and you won't have a pile of things that don't work.
Thanks Aaron. I installed the IO Data device recommended by the community, and it’s working well. However I have 30 days to return the device and thought I’d ask for some more video capture devices under $100 before the 30 days are up. Thanks for all your comments.
 
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