Question / Help Encoding settings for high motion streaming

[thefunkbot]

I'm having trouble finding optimal settings for streaming high motion scenes at 1080p. More specifically I'm streaming MMO gameplay, and any time I move the camera the stream becomes extremely blurry, but once the camera is still it is perfectly clear.

I know my computer and connection are capable, but I just need help with the settings because I'm pretty new to streaming. However here are my specs:

CPU: i7-3770k
GPU: nVidia GTX 570

EDIT: So far my best results have been with a quality balance of 10, bit rate of 3000, buffer size of 10000, and faster CPU preset. However I don't think these settings are very practical and the quality of the stream still isn't as good as I would like.

 

[PINHEAD49]

First of all, insaneeeeeeeeee internet connection :D

Try the following setup if you want:
CBR enabled
CBR padding enabled (means buffer size same as max bitrate - 10k is too much!)
3000 - 3500 max bitrate
30 fps at 1080p

faster preset is not really needed at this bitrate i guess. but you can leave it on faster if your cpu can handle it.

greetz

 

[Kharay]

Enable CBR, Enable CFR, Enable CBR Padding, Disable Custom Buffer Size, Resolution Downscale 720p (Lanczos Filter), 60 FPS. Max Bitrate 3500 Kbps, Audio Default (AAC 128 Kbps). CPU Preset: Faster. Keyframe Interval 2 seconds.

MMOs look awful at 30 FPS. 1080p @ 60 FPS isn't realistic, too much of a bandwidth/performance strain. Also for your viewers. So... 720p@60 FPS. Using Lanczos that will still look quite good.

 

[PINHEAD49]

I recommend 720p, too!

 

[thefunkbot]

What is the down side to using a really high buffer size? It seems to increase the quality of my stream in high motion. Using the settings that PINHEAD49 suggested results in a REALLY blurry stream whenever the camera is moving.

 

[Kharay]

Using a very high buffer size will make the bitrate more erratic. And if you then also happen to have a max bitrate that is very high as well, you may in fact:

1 -- Go over Twitch's unofficial maximum of 3500 Kbps
2 -- Become unwatchable for people with poor download speeds

 

[thefunkbot]

Okay, but what I don't understand is why I should downscale to 720p at 60 fps. Using the settings you suggested the stream is really, really blurry. Text on the screen isn't even readable. Plus it makes no sense at all to stream at 60 fps when I am only getting 35-40 fps in game anyway. 30 FPS does not look bad at all, and there is no lag. The problem is blurriness during high motion.

 

[Kharay]

Why are you at 35 - 40 FPS ingame?

Honestly... that PC should be more than capable of pumping VSync (which normally amounts to 60 FPS) in any MMO. And my settings are fine; I use almost exactly those settings for Minecraft (which is quite challenging to stream properly, given the nature of its graphics) and it's crystal clear.

Can we see a proper log? http://obsproject.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=97

 

[thefunkbot]

The game I'm streaming is Rift, and even with my hardware I only get about 40 fps (which is extremely good for how graphically intensive the game is). Thats with Ultra graphics settings and no Antialiasing.

 

[thefunkbot]

Heres a log: http://pastebin.com/Xn9v2Aqt

And here is what the stream looks like with those settings: http://www.twitch.tv/thefunkbot/b/447404782

 

[onJUGGERNAUT]

Don't mean to thread jack but I too am having issues with pixelation in high motion games, Computer specs CPU I7 3930k GPU AMD 7850HD / Settings in obs 3500 kbps CBR,CBR padding on/ resolution 1680x1050 45 FPS/ x264 preset veryfast. here is what my video looks like when playing Crysis 3 http://www.twitch.tv/onsjuggernaut/b/447484072 Tried to use a faster preset but didnt really notice a quality increase only thing that happened was my in game FPS took a hit. I researched some custom encoder settings but I don't really know what to add to improve quality too many options I just feel kind of lost at this point.

 

[Kharay]

The game I'm streaming is Rift, and even with my hardware I only get about 40 fps (which is extremely good for how graphically intensive the game is). Thats with Ultra graphics settings and no Antialiasing.

I would actually suggest dropping down from those Ultra settings; in particular, try and reduce some of the more CPU heavy settings. Streaming is massively CPU heavy. If you were to tone down on the more heavy settings in the game, it would not look any worse but you would increase your ingame FPS substantially, allowing you to actually stream it at an appealing framerate.

MMO's are semi-high motion and really do benefit from a high framerate while streaming.

Things to keep high: Texture Quality, Resolution, Framerate. Those are the core settings that define how well a game looks on-stream. Everything else can easily come down a couple of notches without people even noticing or caring.

 

[thefunkbot]

I would actually suggest dropping down from those Ultra settings; in particular, try and reduce some of the more CPU heavy settings. Streaming is massively CPU heavy. If you were to tone down on the more heavy settings in the game, it would not look any worse but you would increase your ingame FPS substantially, allowing you to actually stream it at an appealing framerate.

MMO's are semi-high motion and really do benefit from a high framerate while streaming.

Things to keep high: Texture Quality, Resolution, Framerate. Those are the core settings that define how well a game looks on-stream. Everything else can easily come down a couple of notches without people even noticing or caring.

I monitor my cpu while streaming, and it never goes above about 60% while streaming 1080p and playing on ultra settings.

 

[Kharay]

Fine, then it's your GPU. Not the point. My suggestion was to increase the framerate of the game; it will do your stream a world of good. No one likes to watch a laggy/stuttery stream.

 

[thefunkbot]

As I have said a dozen times so far in this thread, I am not having any issue with lag. The stream is perfectly seamless at 1080p 30fps. THE PROBLEM IS BLURRINESS.

I'm not here to ask for your opinion on the best resolution to stream at. I'm here to try to get help to make what I want to do work better.

 

[Kharay]

Fine, if you don't want what is primarily meant as constructive feedback to help improve your stream in other aspects than its blurriness then I will withhold such feedback.

Have fun optimizing your stream.

 

[vaesauce]

There's not much you can do to fix that blurriness. You can look into custom settings and change a few things around but that's about all you do at this rate. The bitrate would eventually help but because we're limited to what we can actually use, it's not much help.

 

[onJUGGERNAUT]

ok so I did some tinkering with the encoder settings and increased the bitrate to 4000 kbps and got an improved picture quality. here are the settings I used: crf=17 qcomp=0.6 qpmax=51 qpmin=10 qpstep=4 ratetol=10 rc-lookahead=30 ref=2 scenecut=40 subme=8 threads=4 trellis=2 weightb=1 weightp=2. and here is the video with those settings again this is at veryfast preset with 30FPS http://www.twitch.tv/onsjuggernaut/b/447863219 Can see a definite improvement from the previous video, but still some blurines in high action scenes. This is the best result I've been able to come up with and I just think since Crysis is such a fast motion game this is the best I'll be able to get. Hope at least this info would help someone else out.

 

[z0rz]

Ugh.. thefunkbot and onJUGGERNAUT... you guys are ridiculous. If you think either of your streams are "blurry" then your standards are so out of whack that I don't even know what to tell you.

I think you both need to take a step back and figure out what it is you're trying to accomplish. It's great that you want to improve your stream quality. But you're both so far beyond "good enough" quality that you should be spending more time thinking about how to provide interesting content than how to improve your quality by 2%. Content is far more important than quality with livestreaming (I know, I know. Quality does play a pretty big role, but you know what I mean. Nobody's going to stick around for your perfect 1080p stream if you don't show some personality or insane amounts of talent. Personality almost always gets more viewers than talent though).

If you only want to record super clean/sharp quality video, you need to do local recordings and host your bigass files somewhere, because livestreaming just isn't there yet. That's just the way it is. Livestreaming needs to be accessible by a large audience, which means it needs to have relatively low bitrate, which means it's not going to look perfect.

 

[Krazy]

ok so I did some tinkering with the encoder settings and increased the bitrate to 4000 kbps and got an improved picture quality. here are the settings I used: crf=17 qcomp=0.6 qpmax=51 qpmin=10 qpstep=4 ratetol=10 rc-lookahead=30 ref=2 scenecut=40 subme=8 threads=4 trellis=2 weightb=1 weightp=2. and here is the video with those settings again this is at veryfast preset with 30FPS http://www.twitch.tv/onsjuggernaut/b/447863219 Can see a definite improvement from the previous video, but still some blurines in high action scenes. This is the best result I've been able to come up with and I just think since Crysis is such a fast motion game this is the best I'll be able to get. Hope at least this info would help someone else out.

You do realize most of these settings you almost certainly copy pasted from some forum thread somewhere are default, right? The ones that aren't, don't really help for livestreaming. The only ones that make significant difference are the rc-lookahead setting, and the subme setting, but frankly subme=8 is crazy for livestreaming and I'm surprised it didn't ruin your performance. It's probably one of the reasons your frame timings are a bit wonky instead of smooth: http://i.imgur.com/AfBy82p.png

You'd be better served by downscaling a bit (1.25 with Bicubic filter should be sufficient) and doing some actual research and experimenting (lots and lots of this!) on the x264 parameters to better figure out what will really help your stream, and suit the games you are playing. And honestly, I feel like your quality would be improved in a first person shooter by raising the framerate. 30FPS first person streams look pretty meh to me, and it's becoming a fairly popular trend this days. High motion games just simply look better at higher framerates, even if each individual frame isn't necessarily as crisp.