Does a bad computer affect fps?

beldecca

New Member
So, I've been trying to get a streaming setup going for a church using as little cash as possible. Reusing an old computer (3500 benchmark via PassMark, dual core, 4 thread, 3.7 Ghz G5400 w/ Intel 610UHD). Hooked it up to the camera through an HDMI-> USB adapter (could not get a network connection to work) and pushing 1280x720 (which I thought would be fine for Facebook). And now the video feed is bouncing around 20-30 FPS and it's real choppy. CPU usage is in the 90 percentile. Is this just too much for this older machine?

When I hook up my laptop with an i7 & a 1660ti, we get a good stream. (1280 x 720)
Trying to decide before dropping cash we don't have on a new computer. But I'm fairly certain since it has low specs.
I'm looking at a cheap pc with an i3-10100T (true quad-core, w/ 8 threads, 3GHz & 7500 PassMark score, & an Intel 630)

Appreciate any help you can provide.
 

FerretBomb

Active Member
Yes, absolutely. Inability to hold a stable framerate is a hallmark of over-loading.
Real-time video encoding is a computationally-heavy task. i3s are nearly the bottom of the barrel, facebook/email-only machines.

Your laptop has a 1660 in it, which has the Turing NVENC core. NVENC shoulders all the 'heavy lifting' of video encoding. In addition, having a discrete GPU means dedicated VRAM (which OBS uses!).
The i3 might work, if you can also put in a 1660 of any stripe, or at least a 1650 Super (NOT the normal or Ti, those use the older Volta core which is markedly lower quality).

Honestly, entirely possible that your existing machine could work fine, if you can toss a 1650 Super in it. If you can find one, given the current GPU shortage. Anything newer than a 1030 (which don't have NVENC cores) should probably work too, really.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
When planning for House of Worship livestream, I get limited budget
But before targeting bottom end, consider what all you want the PC to handle
For example, are you thinking/planning/considering either showing a Service Bulletin or lower-thirds for lyrics/similar?
Do you have in-person worship now, or all remote? if remote, are you planning to have folks pre-record content (music, readings, etc)... obviously depends on style of worship. In our case, to promote sense of community, we rotate readers (just like was done for in-person). The recordings come from all sorts of devices, in varying resolutions, frame and bitrates, etc. an i5-6500HQ with a USB webcam chocked on our setup (I'm sure with what I know know, I could probably get it to work, at the expense of time to learn to master OBS low resource optimizations... a slightly more powerful PC and I can focus instead on content presentation, audio optimization for streaming (slightly different than in-house mix), etc
And this PC should last for years. Now that we have started livestreaming, the expectation is that we will continue, even once we do resume in-person services (presumably later this year). It is way cheaper to buy once and get something that will last, than buy cheap and have to replace it prematurely... but I get budget considerations. We specifically put together a tech needs list, presented a realistic plan, and solicited donations (and we got more than we asked for)
So, I completely concur with @FerretBomb in terms of specs.
With that said, I personally avoid consumer grade PCs for reliability reasons, and I run my PCs connected to auto-voltage regulating UPSs. My primary PC just fried something yesterday (I'm sad) but that PC was over 10 yrs old and running great (for multiple Win10 VMs simultaneously, email, etc 24GB RAM and mutiple SSDs)... though too slow for photo & video video editing.. The PC I just bought for church livestreaming I expect to last at least 5 years, and should be able to handle streaming in 4K if/when the time comes. And once you record these services, are you going to want to edit sections from them and post to websites, or use for other activity (annual meeting, remembrance, etc).. If yes, do you have a PC powerful enough to edit video? I bought an 8core/16-thread system. I'd recommend at least a 6c/12t CPU and the GTX 1650 Super (Turing) or higher as noted above. Intel has screwed up too much over last 5 years for me to trust them, but either a 10th gen i7 or AMD Ryzen 3600X or higher should be fine. Such systems can be had for reasonable amounts (not that much extra over super cheap systems, and it will last at least 2X as long, if properly cared for)
- and consider your audio interface into OBS PC. Will you have a single analog signal? or does your mixer have a digital out option? is that a combined all-channel output, or will you have access to each channel digitally (which can be helpful, though extra work for livestream operator)? If you will run a DAW on OBS, and use audio compression, noise filtering, etc, then you'll need CPU power for that
- then you have to consider your longer-term video plans? what camera setup/connection? ie - where will video decode/uncompress from camera take place? We just got a NDI PTZ camera, which has its own implications vs SDI, USB, HDMI and capture card, etc

just things to consider
 

beldecca

New Member
The i3 (it's a quad-core, HT though) is an all-in-one, so there's no way to add a GPU. I know that GPU's do the heavy lifting of most set ups. Just really don't have the cash for it. And as mentioned in other places, GPU prices (and even availability!) have gone out of sight.

The modern i3 a much different creature than the i3 of ivy bridge or other early chipsets. It processes at over 35% faster than an i5-4570 that is common in refurb units. Just saying . . .

Now, I still understand that the GPU is definitely a boon. At this point, I edit on my home machine (3900x Ryzen w/ 32GB & a RTX 3070). So editing isn't a major concern.

Audio is handled by an XLR -> USB connector taking the audio feed directly off the PA (sound) system. Again, it works fine on the aforementioned laptop.

Right now, we are both online & in-person (following distancing guidelines, mask, etc). I'm going to guess that they will run a single camera for many years to come. I could always be surprised, but this group follows a traditional order of worship and really only want the camera pointed one way.

Don't you just love being a volunteer IT for a group? (just kidding, I'm glad to serve. Just wish it wasn't so fussy, or I had more budget to work with).
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
real-time video encoding is REALLY demanding (why most system have FPGA or similar). It is why encoding algorithms are designed to make decode doable on low power devices including tablets, but ENCODING is whole other ballgame
Look at why AV1 isn't taking off? if I read correctly, basically there aren't CPU powerful enough to handle it

note what I wrote above, I tried to stream with a gaming laptop (fresh OS install, minimized background services, etc - I know what I'm doing) with an i5-6500HQ and an NVENC equipped GTX GPU with a single USB connected webcam, plus PowerPoint ... for liturgical service ... system chocked...
Also, beware USB Root Hub potential limitations with both audio and video coming in via USB.
Other know more than I, but only guessing that if that i3 has 3X CPU ability as that circa 2015 i5-6500HQ (and isn't bottlenecked by a low-end chipset), then I'd suspect you could get it to work reliably.
Good luck and let us know how it goes
 

beldecca

New Member
Thanks. I did just stumble across a pc I might try - it's a bit more than I was hoping to spend, but it has a Core i5-10400, 8GB, GTX 165, & a 256GB SSD. That should be enough, don't you think. I will just have to scare up an additional $150 somewhere :) (Total, $700).

Something you mentioned, Lawrence, - does having both audio & video coming in via USB overload the bus? I went to USB video because I couldn't get the video over CAT to behave (although it did work on my laptop - odd). I just wish I had 10 more hours to throw at this to really get all the bugs ironed out.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
one question to ask yourself is if your target is enough to work today, or you want something to last for a few years, or longer
Personally, I'd not get anything new with less than 6-core/12-thread, and I target 8c/16t or better to ensure 5+ years life. And 16GB RAM with Win10, and for the video encoder quality that comes with the newer Turning based NVENC - means a GTX 1650 Super or higher. You should be able to get such a system for $700

As for overloading USB Root hub... can a single video camera and USB audio co-exist... yes... but depends on chipset and other factors. there isn't a simple answer
 
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