Question / Help Dedicated Streaming PC

Grumbul

Member
Hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me.

Lets assume we already have a capture card (internal PCI-E like the Avermedia Live Gamer).

What sort of specs are needed on a PC to house that card and be able to 100% reliably (assuming rock solid internet connection and upload speeds) encode a 1080p and 30 fps stream?

I'm assuming 8GB of RAM and a basic 128GB SSD with Windows 8.1 is the starting point.

What is the minimum CPU you are going to need. Also, do you actually need a dedicated g-card and if so of what type?

I know its a fairly open question but I'm really not sure on just how much of a load is actually put on a rig when doing this.
 

Videophile

Elgato
You would need a Intel 4770k/4790k. It can do 1080p30 no problem. With some tweaking maybe even at the medium preset.
 
You don't need an i7 for a 1080p@30 FPS stream. An i5 4570 does fine. I personally would go for the 4690, if you can. Then again, the bare minimum? It really depends on the game you want to play. I personally wouldn't go lower than an i5, but if you want to exclusively use QuickSync you could probably even do well with a modern i3. In that case, however, I would look up the limitations of using QuickSync.

For a dedicated streaming PC you do not need a dedicated video card unless you want to make use of NVEnc.

Also, while the medium preset absolutely rocks for 720p@60fps, 1080p@30fps doesn't enjoy the same benefits. Apparently there are little benefits over the "fast" preset.
 

Grumbul

Member
Yeah sorry guys maybe I did not make this very clear.

This is for a standalone dedicated streaming PC - separate from the main gaming rig - and thus the AverMedia.

I am confident, but not certain that even an i5 is needed if the machine is doing nothing else but encoding the stream data.....thus the question.
 

Videophile

Elgato
I have a 2600k(2nd gen i7) and it can do 1080p30 at fast and 720p60 at medium. You will want an i7 if you can afford it. If not, go with the best i5 you can.

-Shrimp
 

Jack0r

The Helping Squad
Have to agree with Shrimp, better get an i7 and just a normal HDD and maybe even just 4GB ram.
OBS, or streaming in general will not benefit of the SSD or use so much RAM, but it will eat your CPU like a peace of cake. Even if at the moment the i5 might be enough, the i7 will give you a bit of headroom and definitely better compression capabilities.
 

InterceptorX

New Member
I don't think anyone even read the OP. If the avermedia card does all of the work I don't really think it matters what computer you put it in. If you have an old PC that has a PCI-E slot open I would just use that. If not, just get an i3 and 4 gigs of RAM, no need for a solid state.
 

Jeff Darby

Member
I don't think anyone even read the OP. If the avermedia card does all of the work I don't really think it matters what computer you put it in. If you have an old PC that has a PCI-E slot open I would just use that. If not, just get an i3 and 4 gigs of RAM, no need for a solid state.
That is completely wrong. Everyone else gave good advice.
 

dodgepong

Administrator
Community Helper
A capture card does not do any work. It just captures the video so that something else can do the work.
 

Grumbul

Member
Oh dear.

Oh dear.

Oh dear.

So much went horribly wrong with this thread I have no idea where to start now.

First off (and actually not the point) the AverMedia Live Gamer HD actually has an on-board H.264 hardware encoder, which significantly reduces CPU usage - so lets just get that out of the way right off the bat.

I won't actually be using the AverMedia in this manner however as I'd rather use x264 via OBS as my open source h.264 encoder. The results are just better given a set bitrate.

So, now that is out of the way....

I actually already stream games on one of my gaming rigs which runs an overclocked 4.5ghz i53570K CPU. I've been able to stream at a rock solid 720p 30fps downscaled from 1080p using a 2500kbps bitrate.

What I actually want to do is take all load off that particular rig by getting a second pc with the AverMedia installed to do all the heavy encoding.

If my existing i53570K can run games such as AC4, WatchDogs etc and still encode the game fine then I'm reluctant to believe an i7 is necessary as a standalone rig for encoding.

See where I am going with this now?

quick edit/update:
The SSD and 8gig of RAM were mentioned in the initial post as I have these already to use as part of the build - nothing more to it than that.
 

Videophile

Elgato
Oh dear.

Oh dear.

Oh dear.

So much went horribly wrong with this thread I have no idea where to start now.

First off (and actually not the point) the AverMedia Live Gamer HD actually has an on-board H.264 hardware encoder, which significantly reduces CPU usage - so lets just get that out of the way right off the bat.

I won't actually be using the AverMedia in this manner however as I'd rather use x264 via OBS as my open source h.264 encoder. The results are just better given a set bitrate.

So, now that is out of the way....

I actually already stream games on one of my gaming rigs which runs an overclocked 4.5ghz i53570K CPU. I've been able to stream at a rock solid 720p 30fps downscaled from 1080p using a 2500kbps bitrate.

What I actually want to do is take all load off that particular rig by getting a second pc with the AverMedia installed to do all the heavy encoding.

If my existing i53570K can run games such as AC4, WatchDogs etc and still encode the game fine then I'm reluctant to believe an i7 is necessary as a standalone rig for encoding.

See where I am going with this now?

quick edit/update:
The SSD and 8gig of RAM were mentioned in the initial post as I have these already to use as part of the build - nothing more to it than that.
Ok, first off, if OP has enough $$$ and wants the best stream quality he can get, why go for an i5? Also, what preset are you streaming at? My i7, albeit kinda old, allows for 720p60, medium X264 preset, as well as the custom options of trellis=2 and subme=7, which helps quality even more.

To OP:
you should get a normal HDD, and 4GB of ram, and get the best i7 you can.

-Shrimp
 

Jack0r

The Helping Squad
Grumbul, sure if you have the SDD and RAM already, it will not hurt, just wanted to make sure you know the CPU is the main important point. I am currently using an i5 2500k in my encoding box, but actually barely use it cause the i7 in my main box can pretty much do the same stream, while running the game.
While I could overclock the i5 to get a bit more room, it is currently limited to 720p30 on faster or fast depending on the content and 1080p30 mostly on superfast/ultrafast unless you play chess.
Hence I would recommend anyone that has the money and is planning to stream for a longer time to get an i7 right away. The i5 will of course work, but limit you from day one.

About the CC/HW Encoder thingie. Just clearly split those two. A Hardware Encoder (although it cannot be used with OBS unless its QuickSync/NVenc or AMD VCE) would take of load off your CPU but normally at the cost of quality, meaning its not useful for streaming. You would need even more bitrate than usual to make a stream look good.
So while a Capture Card will never give you a performance benefit (see here) a Hardware Encoder can, at some cost.
 
...
If my existing i53570K can run games such as AC4, WatchDogs etc and still encode the game fine then I'm reluctant to believe an i7 is necessary as a standalone rig for encoding.
....

Pretty much. Most people seem to underestimate i5's. For instance, the i5 4690K by itself is a very capable processor. If you overclock it, however, it can actually outperform an i7 4770, even in multithreaded applications. It can reach performance levels equal to the i7 4790. Your mileage may vary depending on your setup, of course, but I'm just saying that i5s are not to be underestimated. More importantly, i7s are not to be considered the holy grail.
 

Jack0r

The Helping Squad
And here are two benchmarks where the i5 4690K is clearly beaten by the i7 4770...or an AMD FX8350
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2284&cmp[]=1907&cmp[]=1780
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-07/...ating-mit-anwendungen-und-spielen-1920-x-1080
the last one is in german and I just want to show that benchmarks can be misleading :)

Its pretty simple, if the base cpu clock is important, the i5 will win with his 100mhz more, but if multi-threading is used correctly, the i7 will clearly be on top. And as Anandtech pointed out, on games nowadays we are pretty much GPU limited anyway. In this case, gaming is not important, but encoding performance. Lets take a look at a 3rd comparison:
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-4770K-vs-Intel-4690K
They use the cinebench results from anandtech btw and show that the single core performance is equal but on multi threaded the i7 leads. I did not, I think, say that the i7 is the holy grail but Grumbul talked about 1080p30 and streaming, not recording, so he probably wants to use a slower preset as well. So far my experience with dedicated streaming (mostly fast content, shooter and racing games) is like this:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ could barely do 720p30 at the time
Intel Pentium E5200 could barely do 720p30
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 could handle 720p30 on veryfast, 60 fps were too much, 1080p only on ultrafast at 30fps
Intel i3-2370M can barely handle 720p30, quicksync works better
Intel I5-2320, can do 720p30 on very fast, 60 is too much
Intel i5-2550K no OC, can do 720p30 on fast/faster, but 1080p30 is smooth only on superfast
Intel i7-4770, can do 2 720p30 streams at veryfast, run quicksync at 1080p60fps and play bf4 at steady 100 fps.
 
You have not read my post, Jack0r. I mentioned that an overclocked 4690K beats a 4770K.

The first benchmark you're listing is a Passmark benchmark, AKA a synthetic benchmark. The fact that the FX-8350 beats an i5 4690K in that benchmark says a lot about how trustworthy a synthetic benchmark such as Passmark is. For example, I once compared my processor (an i5 750) with an FX-8320. The FX-8320 has a Passmark score that is almost 300% as high as mine. However, the real-world performance difference between my processor and that processor isn't even close to that number. In fact, in some cases the FX-8320 performs worse than my current processor.

Also, if you want to make a proper comparison you are to link to the same source. As you can see on the following CPUBoss page the FX-8350 is clearly beaten by the 4690K: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-4690K-vs-AMD-FX-8350
That is, except for the Passmark test. However, that is because Passmark by nature is a synthetic benchmark. It does not equate to real-world performance, and is only to be considered as a very, very rough guideline.

The second benchmark does not deliver convincing results to make up for the extra price of the 4770K. Sure, it beats the 4690K, but the difference is not convincing at all. The x264 graph makes it seem like there's a huge difference there, but in actuality the difference still does not make up the extra costs of the processor. In the second test (I don't know what that exactly is) the difference between the 4690K and the 4770K is so small that in real-world applications it is absolutely negligible.

Cinebench can be considered a real-world benchmark, since Cinema 4D is a real application. As such it is more trustworthy than a Passmark score. However, whether that real-world benchmark really applies to others depends on a per-case basis. It is, however, more interesting to take into consideration. In that respect, when you compare the 4690K and the 4770K the difference is still small. We're talking about roughly an 11% difference. In my opinion that does not make up for the +34% difference in price (based on Amazon search results), nor does it serve as a very strong argument for hyperthreading being as big a deal as some people are making it out to be.

When comparing CPUs you also need to take into consideration the context. For example, my processor gets a Cinebench score of 14142. In other words, the 4690K completely butchers my CPU with its score of 27090. Then take into consideration what I'm doing and what I want to be doing. I can already stream just fine at the format that I want (720p@30FPS), which means that any extra power I can get is going to be primarily put into extra compression (AKA slower CPU benchmarks) and streaming at higher framerates. Let alone if I were to make a dedicated streaming build with that. Those are all things you need to take into consideration, which is why you need to look at it on a per-case basis.

So, sure. If you are in the industry and want to produce a top-of-the-line stream and have so much gear and software that an i7 is a relatively small purchase, go ahead. Otherwise, keep looking.

Most people on this forum consider the i7 a holy grail and you know it (or at least, you should, being a moderator). On every single thread about hardware recommendations there will be people boasting about their i7 setups and recommending said i7 (usually the 4770K), talking down on the i5s and any other processor in a manner as if those are bloody Celerons or something. People just recommend the i7 4770K by default. Not because they really want to make a dedicated streaming build that's adjusted to OP's needs.

...
Intel i5-2550K no OC, can do 720p30 on fast/faster, but 1080p30 is smooth only on superfast
Intel i7-4770, can do 2 720p30 streams at veryfast, run quicksync at 1080p60fps and play bf4 at steady 100 fps.

Quite a jump there, huh? I mean, sure, the i7 4770K is a pretty damn good processor. Nobody is questioning that. But there's a huge gap between those two last processors you tried. That's a huge amount of very capable processors you don't have experience with.

I'm not questioning if the i7 4770K is a powerful processor. I am, however, arguing that it is not the only option out there, and far from the best choice when we're talking about the price/performance ratio. Just because on a lineair performance scale the 4770K apears after the 4690K doesn't necessarily mean it's actually a better investment.
 

Jack0r

The Helping Squad
I have read your post but I felt it was stupid to compare an overclocked with a non overclocked CPU. Of course they will be nearer too each other. As stated I wanted to show how bad benchmarks are. They are just a bunch of numbers from different programs put together. In the end the only thing that would be interesting to compare in this case is pure x264 performance using multiple threads.

If you check the first pass fps results of a 1080p encoding: http://us.hardware.info/reviews/544...!-benchmarks-igpu-tech-arp-x264-hd-501-pass-1
See the difference between an 2500k and the 4690k by the way. Less than 10 fps, and that perfectly fits to most user reports. If people have problems, and not an AMD apu or very old cpu, they have an i5 and ran into a limit.
But this has all gone far too off topic and was mainly lead by personal opinions. I think grumbul has heard enough to form his own opinion.

My last and final suggestion, think about upgrading your main system and using the current one as the encoding box. And before you buy something to save a few bucks, keep streaming with your current setup and save the 50-100bucks for the better CPU. (That is my opinion that comes from the experience that hyper threading is not as bad as some people say)
 
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