Question / Help Capturing N64 games

[Thebigcheese]

I know this seems pretty straightforward, but N64 is the only console I can't figure out. I have a Retron for older systems, but there isn't a similar product for N64 games. So I have only composite output to work with, and it seems that none of the capture cards I can find will take that, except maybe the Elgato Game Capture HD. I have an Avermedia LGP, which is otherwise just fine, so I'm not super into the idea of buying a different capture card, but if that will work better overall than it might be worth it. I'd rather get something that works better with OBS, too, so one without an onboard encoder would be nice (but Avermedia's options are USB 3 and don't work on my motherboard). Or is there a fairly inexpensive converter I can get that won't make it look awful? Thanks.

 

[Floatingthru]

Either you get a converter/upscaler or another capture card.

 

[Thebigcheese]

Perhaps you could provide some specific suggestions? I've done good of research and not found any good solutions. What I really want is a card with no encoder that works well with OBS 64-bit and takes both HDMI and composite signals.

 

[Floatingthru]

USB or PCI-E?

 

[Thebigcheese]

Makes no difference to me as long as it doesn't have specific USB chipset requirements. So far nothing I've seen from Avermedia or Elgato fits my requirements.

 

[Floatingthru]

Avermedia C127?

 

[Thebigcheese]

Oh, didn't think to look in legacy products. I see that it comes with a component connection, is there a composite adapter? Otherwise I see they make a USB powered composite to HDMI converter that would work with the LGP but not solve the 64-bit issue.

Digging a little further into older products, their Dark Crystal HD has current drivers and definitely takes composite. It won't do 1080p, but I stream at 720p anyway. Any thoughts on that card?

 

[FerretBomb]

Grab a Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI (~$330 from SolarisJapan), or Yuan SC512 ($200 from SabrePC when they have them in stock). Same exact card, but the Yuan doesn't have a passthrough daughtercard (just use splitters). Easily *the* best capture card currently on the market for livestreaming purposes.

1080p@60 recording, with support down to 240i. HDMI/DVI, Component, VGA, S-Video, Composite, RGB inputs. Also does full RGB24 color sampling, unlike most other cards in the price range. If you need PS3, there are HDMI splitters that conveniently break HDCP for around $20 on Amazon.

Might also consider a Framemeister Mini-XRGB upscaler, which make retro games look incredible and outputs HDMI.

Avermedia is starter-grade gear. Their marketing uses a lot of weasel-wording to give the impression their crap does more than it actually does. Would not advise, if you can save up a few more bucks to get more in the long run.

If you're looking for a quick one-and-done solution though, grab an Easycap ($12) off Amazon. It has a lot of capture delay and looks pretty bad. But it's super cheap, and works. Only captures composite, no passthrough.

 

[Thebigcheese]

I see you popping up all over the internet recommending that, making it rather hard to find negative opinions of it :p It's a bit pricey, but it does look like it will do everything I want, so... I'll put it in my wish list and if streaming works out than that's probably what I'll get. Thanks!

Though, thinking more on price considerations... HDMI covers 90% of what I would do, which is to say that the Retron upscales and outputs HDMI for NES, SNES, GB, GBA, Genesis and the Wii U and XBoner have HDMI. So N64 is the only non-HDMI system I can see using (I don't even have one at the moment, I'm just planning my options). So from that standpoint, I feel like the Live Gamer HD, which does play nice with OBS, is the sensible option. And if I want to one day add an N64 to my collection, I could pick up an upscaler (or Avermedia's ET111 mentioned above if I want to be cheap) and use that for that one console. While I'm sure the unit you recommend is better quality, this is at best a hobby for me right now, so I have to keep expenses down. Thoughts?

 

[FerretBomb]

Heh. Mostly here, and posting Youtube videos to show what I'd wondered about before I got mine. Not affiliated or anything, just really like mine as compared to the other offerings currently available. Most out there have colorspace deficiencies, capture rate issues, limited inputs, audio problems, or a combination of those. I blew cash stepping in a pit, so if I can steer others away from doing so too, so much the better. :)

You might also consider grabbing a Retrode and N64 adapter, if they're still available. Allows you to dump carts to ROMs, so you can emulate legally. Even has controller ports to plug in an N64 joystick. I have one, and while a bit tetchy to get it to read, it allows you to pull the ROMs off (unlike the Retron, even if they totally should be able to... hoping for hacked Android firmware from someone to re-enable the functionality).

Eh, I can't point people toward Avermedia on principle, with how they do their marketing, and by extension business.
I'd probably still go for the Framemeister and just save up for a bit longer. It's the gold-standard, and can be used even when not streaming, if you just want to play classic games on a modern TV.

That said, I also tend to put up with the hassle of keeping the original consoles around. Retron(-alike)s are convenient, but the emulation they use isn't perfect, and I'm not sure they're allowed on most of the major leaderboards if you plan to get into speedrunning. Just can't replace the original stuff, sometimes.

 

[Thebigcheese]

I tend to agree with you on all of those points. I still have my NES, SNES, and GBA for that reason, but the HDMI out and upscaling on the Retron are far more convenient for general use. I also don't do any speedrunning, so I don't really care about it being "competition legal." Though that is part of the reason why I am looking at how to hook up an N64 vs just emulating (but mostly just to avoid legal concerns).

I also agree that the Avermedia stuff isn't probably as nice in terms of picture quality. I would say that generally it is perfectly fine but definitely the color space is a little off. In particular certain bright colors get washed out. I had posted another thread here (with no replies) about the green grass in Mario RPG in particular, though some of my Mega Man games also looked off. Using my LGP, I should clarify. Otherwise the actual picture quality is fine. The real question is whether it is worth spending another $170 to get the better card when I will probably never make any money off the hobby.

 

[Thebigcheese]

So let's say I just want HDMI capture because if I do any N64 games I'll just use the Virtual Console instead. My mobo has the wrong USB 3 chipset, but if I get a PCIe card the Live Gamer Extreme sends uncompressed video. The Live Gamer HD would also work well, though perhaps still have some of the same color space issues (wondering if the LGX fixes that). There's the Elgato HD60 Pro as well and I've seen that some streamers use Magewell stuff, though that seems quite expensive. Is there an HDMI-only option you would recommend that is less than the Micomsoft card?

 

[FerretBomb]

Not really. The HD60 Pro and Yuan SC512 are the same price point at $200. The HD60 Pro does YV12 color sampling though, and is not a fully Directshow compliant device; it only works in certain programs, and while OBS is one of them, it's a limiting factor.

Again, cannot recommend any Avermedia equipment as they engage in scummy practices. Their gear is primarily starter-grade anyway.

I've been looking into the Magewell gear but haven't found too much information. They've got some interesting options, but don't provide too much as far as hard specs, and there's no way to simply buy one online easily. A lot about it seems sketchy, including some of the claims they make about throughput (PCIe 2.0 1x can't hit the rates they're quoting). and a number of almost-too-good-to-be-true features (multiple simultaneous application access, multiple resolution/deinterlacing options, all with no slowdown... again, see 'not enough bandwidth on PCIe 2.0'). Still an option that I want to pursue... just not while having to call someone to speak to a salesperson, instead of just clicking a 'buy' button on a webshop. Their single-channel HDMI/composite/component/s-video option looks like a close competitor to the SC512, even if it's missing the option for VGA input. IF their claims are true, still have no idea how much they cost as none of their retail partners list a price.

The reason I lean on the SC512 so hard is because it provides functionality that for the moment you'd have to go to a $750+ Datapath card to otherwise get. And my Datapath Vision E2 doesn't even capture HDMI/DVI embedded audio, requiring splitting it out and inputting it separately, then re-syncing A/V. The DP DVI-DL is even more expensive, in the four figure range, but can capture audio and higher resolutions than the SC512.

At the moment, going from an LGP to another Avermedia product would be a waste of money. They'll all have the same color issues. If you care about color or want to step up to a mid-grade card, none of the cheaper options you've asked about are going to help (aside from Magewell, and they're still an unknown quantity at present for several reasons). I'd honestly just point you at a Framemeister XRGB-mini and be done with it at this point. It'll make any retro console look absolutely amazing through HDMI.

 

[Thebigcheese]

Alright, thanks! How's the delay on the Yuan card? That's my only concern on getting the one with no pass through.

Edit: never mind, just watched your video on it. Seems minimal, probably fine. I can always get a cheap splitter if it's a problem. You mentioned in the comments that you don't capture directly in OBS, is that still true? Seems odd.

 

[Thebigcheese]

Well I hate you and I'm just going to order the Yuan version of the card. But I only hate you for showing me the better product, because if there's one thing I hate it's having to upgrade again later. Always like to buy the right thing the first time. The LGP is still quite handy for doing LPs with my band, so that's fine.

I do wish SabrePC had some in stock, but I'm going to suck it up and pay the full $250 to get it from Amazon. Probably still worth it.