Bitrate is reducing from 6000kbps to (700kbps, 0kbps 1700kbps, 0) on a stable broadband connection

Nass86

Nass86

Member
Hey guys

I've had two great streams on a Windows Laptop with an NVENC encoder. Its just Webcam work not gaming.

Once I updated Windows 10 and updated some network tweaks recommended on Youtube, my KBPS has gone down from 6,000 to a very low fluctuating number i.e. within 10 seconds I will get readings like this with Red and Amber Lights (ethernet or Wifi)

850 kbps
1123 kbps
1701 kbps
0 kbps
850 kbps
0 kbps
1734 kbps
0 kbps

I'm convinced it is because of something I've done, but when I have reverted the settings I personally changed (using TCP optimiser) that didn't work. I changed the DNS server to a setting supposedly good for gamers, which I changed back to "Obtain DNS Server automatically" in case it was this. No difference.

The Macbook pro sat next to this machine on the same internet conncetion can still get 6,000kbps on Ethernet or WIFI so I've eventually realised it wasn't the internet.

Unforuntately at the same time as editing the network settings, this laptop received a signficant windows 10 update. This laptop is a 2012 Lenovo Thinkpad with an Nvidia NVENC encoder that I bought for the NVENC and I'm actually beginning to think its the Windows update - i *seriously think* I have reversed the handful of settings I had changed. Smart Restore didn't do a backup before this either and I had forgotten it existed.

Do you know a way whereby I can "download some basic settings" or Default things I cannot see back to how they would have been a few years ago as what I'm trying seems to keep a setting lingering somewhere?

A magic network settings wand or something I'm not trying?

Log file
 
R

R1CH

Forum Admin
Developer
TCP optimizers and youtube gamer guides are often full of terrible settings. Windows 10 does a fine job tuning automatically, you should not change anything. I suggest you do a full network reset from an admin cmd prompt:

Code: 
netsh winsock reset
netsh int tcp reset

Your log shows you using 802.11n Wifi which will be very bad due to interference. Use 5 GHz or a wired connection for best results.
 
L

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Why are you assuming you have a stable Internet connection?
What else is using that Internet connection? and what monitoring do you have in place to confirm that [hint, almost no one does]?
I had issues until I got a new PC that didn't have a bunch of corporate IT security s/w not configured to support streaming [can't be sure if correlative or causal]. For you, it means you make sure you aren't running background processes/tasks that may interfere (OneDrive, Google Drive, chat/messenger apps not in use, etc. etc. etc - most people PCs I deal with have a large number of apps/processes running by default (on startup) that don't need to be). The point is that Internet wasn't designed for low latency/jitter.... so lots of work-arounds to make it work,,, and most residential networks designed for download, not upload.... means there are LOTS of things that can interfere with a live stream (upload) that you would otherwise never notice...
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
Hey Lawrence.

Here's why I have isolated it down to my Windows Laptop with NVENC:

1) I've had this working amazingly well, twice, before the updates Windows 10 asked me to do, and the settings I changed
2) The Macbook Pro Sat next to the Windows laptop next to me - on the same internet connection - can maintain 6000kbps. I stop that stream and start the Windows one immediately after and I'm getting 800, 1600, 0, 700, 300, 0, 1600. Back to the Macbook? Boom 6000kbs again. Its just the windows laptop that has suffered some consequence. Ethernet doesn't make it better on Windows and Wifi doesn't make it worse on Mac.

I unplug everything else from the network when I stream, all devices on airplane mode etc so there is nothing competing. As I type this I'm thinking: I've also ran tests plenty of times on Windows Laptop in the run up to the first 2 streams on it and it was regularly getting 5,000, 6,000, I can stretch it to 7900 ish really.

I run the Windows laptop completely stripped down i.e. deleted all unused temp files, nothing else installed, it is an OBS only machine. All the little trimmings like turning memory hogging windows settings off are done. I actually use my Macbook for daily life/work and thats where all my apps would be using bandwidth.

It's something on the Windows machine, its just gotta be.

Other thing to note: I did install Malware Bytes (trial) on the Windows Machine and since uninstalled it today (no gains from this). It could be related to that, too?
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
Also something of note. The windows update added Microsoft Edge. As developers you may be interested to know, I do know other streamers who said the addition of Edge (or the update around it) really knocked the pants out of performance for streaming so - although I don't use it - I wonder if somehow the new Windows 10 defaults for users who aren't afraid to do the newest upgrades like I did, are actually suffering in more volume than the sometimes sensible guys and girls who stay put on what is working for them.
 
L

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Ok, the issue may be a performance hit from latest Win10 updates and a very old laptop (which may or may not be having hardware issues at 8yrs old). Have you used Task Manager/Resource Monitor to make sure you aren't running into a resource constraint? a momentary spike could cause issue the issue you are describing

You mention Edge... what are you doing with a browser during a livestream? Are you streaming the browser content?
I stream to FB vs YT due to user presence/focus, but I noticed that even when using latest Edge FB shows me fewer options than when using Chrome. And with YT, if monitoring stream, I'd recommend Chrome not Edge (in which case, if Edge not running, shouldn't impact system performance) during a livestream... unless doing something that specifically uses its DLLs

I've been in the IT business for too many decades to trust MS in regards to security, so using more than Defender is my usual recommendation. But for a dedicated streaming PC that avoids any internet site with ads... could work. But I'd also assume running as local user, nt admin (as almost never safe to run as admin)... but assuming you are CPU and GPU constrained, you probably do need to run OBS as local admin (I'd recommend using runas vs logging in with user profile granted local admin, but it depends)

Also, with MS code quality issues, I'm running v2004 and will hold off for 3-6 months before going to latest release (v2010?). Also, I'm still running OBS v25.0.8 as it is stable for my needs, and I don't need any of the new features in v26... so I'm holding off until some of the support issues I read in these forums settles a bit...I'm not feeling the need for bleeding edge in this circumstance

Then there is OBS optimization. On such an old system, I'd recommend keeping base canvas and output resolution the same. Assuming you have the bandwidth, I'd think you'd reduce your system workload by keeping everything at 1080p vs rescaling

I'm suspecting you were making good use of the system, and just tripped over the edge where you are now having resource contention.. but can't know if that is CPU, GPU, disk, ??? For example, assuming system of that age has HDD, I'd try swapping in a spare SSD and see if it helps (I do have spares, hence thought... I wouldn't buy a SSD for a system of this age unless you know it solves your problem)
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
Hey thanks for the comprehensive reply.

I've read it and also had some further thoughts this morning that could help narrow it down.

- In an emergency when this first became apparent, after the 2 perfect ethernet streams, on a third stream I connected the Windows Laptop to my 4G Mobile (LTE) and it streamed at 5,000 or higher but I reduced it to 2,500 to save mobile data. It worked perfectly tethering through my mobile for 2 hours straight.
- As soon as I plugged the ethernet back in or tested it on Wifi the problem returned
- Yet the Macbook Pro can still go at 6,000 on Wired or WIFI

I don't use Edge - I just mention the issues came after I installed the update containing that (and simultaneously read someone else really not happy with their streaming since then)

Regarding the laptop and it's age - I deliberately chose this one because it has the NVENC capabilities and I could strip it back and not need it for gaming - and it worked. Twice on Ethernet, and a third time on Mobile Hotspot when I started with this issue.

Here's where I'm at. It's not the computer that is struggling with anything. The CPU use is really low and the GPU is doing 60fps on 720p without jittering on Mobile Hotspot.

Current conclusion:
It's as if there's a setting in the Network settings / adaptors, layers of that part of this computer that is where my knowledge is close to zero that I don't understand. Windows Update - or something I've done - whatever it is - something is undermining the potential this computer has to send up to a 6,000kbps stream when it deals with a wired or wireless router. I've swapped the routers out with a different brand and it has the same problem. It's as if it only likes my mobile hotspot now!

I have performed the CMD (in Administrator Mode) commands :

_______
netsh winsock reset (and restarted)
netsh int tcp reset
________

So guys - Can you think up settings I can change for how this laptop interacts with Ethernet and Wifi routers? Because since it can stream via a Mobile Hotspot with ease, I genuinely think this is the cause we are zeroing in on.
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
(The stats always say frame drops are from NETWORK even though the network is fine on the MacBook Pro and the Windows laptop was fine wired or Wi-Fi before the updated windows software and TCP optimiser and Malware Bytes installation - now uninstalled)
 
L

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
so Windows laptop streaming via USB connected hotspot works fine, but using LAN (WiFi or wired Ethernet) does not?
Or did you not ever have this laptop streaming OK (even with hotspot) after Win10 upgrade? Or was it a recent Win10 version/feature upgrade (ie to v2004 or v2010/2H10)? Personally, with MS code quality track record, I like to stick about 6 months behind, so on v2004 at the moment.

If laptop works fine now on hotspot (USB) but not Ethernet/WiFi, then you are right to look into Windows drivers and whatever that TCP optimizer did (undo it if you can). However, I'd also take a look at anything else installed (security software, firewall settings, etc) that could interfere with local network traffic

Have you gone into Windows firewall and reset it?
You did you reset the network already as @R1CH directed, right?

For the option before starting a fresh Windows install, I'd go into Safe Mode -> Device Manager and delete the wired and wifi ethernet adapters.. Reboot and let those items be auto detected, and install drivers (have pre-downloaded just in case, or make sure USB device available in case you need to get/install something). Hopefully that will clear out whatever changes messed up the TCP/IP stack on this system. If not, and you spent too much time on it already... and have the bits available, it may be faster to fresh install Windows (or maybe just a Win10 fresh start/reset)... And then beware getting carried away with optimizing Win10

My typical fresh system changes are to go into Privacy and shut off a lot of items (almost all), and Cortana, and related but otherwise leave well enough alone [and I'm comfortable in the Registry]. After getting s/w installed, I then use Win10 Task Mgr (vs Registry like in old days) to disable Auto-startup apps that I don't need running in the background ex OneDrive (I turn on only when needed, exit app when done)
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
Lawrence_SoCal said:
so Windows laptop streaming via USB connected hotspot works fine, but using LAN (WiFi or wired Ethernet) does not?
Or did you not ever have this laptop streaming OK (even with hotspot) after Win10 upgrade? Or was it a recent Win10 version/feature upgrade (ie to v2004 or v2010/2H10)? Personally, with MS code quality track record, I like to stick about 6 months behind, so on v2004 at the moment.

If laptop works fine now on hotspot (USB) but not Ethernet/WiFi, then you are right to look into Windows drivers and whatever that TCP optimizer did (undo it if you can). However, I'd also take a look at anything else installed (security software, firewall settings, etc) that could interfere with local network traffic

Have you gone into Windows firewall and reset it?
You did you reset the network already as @R1CH directed, right?

For the option before starting a fresh Windows install, I'd go into Safe Mode -> Device Manager and delete the wired and wifi ethernet adapters.. Reboot and let those items be auto detected, and install drivers (have pre-downloaded just in case, or make sure USB device available in case you need to get/install something). Hopefully that will clear out whatever changes messed up the TCP/IP stack on this system. If not, and you spent too much time on it already... and have the bits available, it may be faster to fresh install Windows (or maybe just a Win10 fresh start/reset)... And then beware getting carried away with optimizing Win10

My typical fresh system changes are to go into Privacy and shut off a lot of items (almost all), and Cortana, and related but otherwise leave well enough alone [and I'm comfortable in the Registry]. After getting s/w installed, I then use Win10 Task Mgr (vs Registry like in old days) to disable Auto-startup apps that I don't need running in the background ex OneDrive (I turn on only when needed, exit app when done)
Click to expand...

Hey thank you for the reply and follow up dude :)

Here's where I've gotten up to:

- Reinstalled Windows 10 fresh
- It installed version 1909 with no way of going to earlier version - this wasn't working
- I've updated to current version of Windows 10 20H2
- I've done this (autotuning disabled) as someone said it gave them better upload SACRIFICING DOWNLOAD on this machine only:
At the command prompt, type: netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled and press the Enter key.
- I've run TCP Optimiser and lied to it by telling it I have a 100mb/s connection (as per someone else's discovery on Reddit)

Current status:
1) My upload speed on Speedtest. net has returned when I test it on Firefox
2) My upload speed on OBS (clean ethernet connection) has improved from 1100kb/s to 1500kb/s
3) My upload speed if I tether it to my mobile phone and run OBS is full speed

I.e. My computer upload speed has returned but OBS cannot see that I have returned to a faster connection unless I tether it on mobile phone (unsustainable).

Next stop I will try your firewall/safe mode options. Will report back. Appreciate your time.
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
OK I've turned Firewall off completely to get rid of that (its not my work computer)

I am currently in a situation where my speed test is good but OBS won't go above 1500kb/s or if it does, it is brief before Windows throttles it down.

  1. Fresh install of windows 10, updated to latest build 20H2 (Oct 2020)
  2. Firewall off
  3. Clean ethernet connection
  4. Wifi and Ethernet Speed tests are now performing as expected
  5. TCP optimiser done, and reversed using backup. Now on Windows default
  6. All power saving settings off/disabled
  7. All privacy, notifications, stripped back/off
  8. Auto startups thinned out
  9. All drivers up to date
  10. Nothing competing for bandwidth on the network (or in Resource Monitor)
  11. Issue happens whether I stream direclty to Twitch or ReStream
Any further ideas why OBS would receive a downward throttle on the upload but the Speed test performance is fine? (CPU not stressed, GPU not stressed, nothing else connected via USB etc, just dropping network frames unless I set the Bitrate to 1000kb/s)
 
R

R1CH

Forum Admin
Developer
Have you tried "enable network optimizations" on advanced settings? Also make sure your autotuninglevel is set back to normal, disabled has terrible effects on TCP performance. You could also try netsh int tcp set global timestamps = enabled, I've seen this work around some broken network stuff before.
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
Wow! What you said there actually made it jump (for the first time ever on Ethernet) to

3,000
2996
2700
*First time I've seen the above numbers on Ethernet/Wifi since the problem*
then a massive jump to the standard issue (as if OBS or the Internet adapter is being strangled)
1100
1300
700
1300
(continues to bounce up and down around 1100)

With "enable network optimizations" it behaves the same as above BUT:

- settles at 1700 kbps generally (adding around a 500kb/s average)
- with ADDED drops to 0kb/s thrown in every 5 seconds. This setting makes it more unstable so I have disabled it.

Thanks for coming back to me so far.

What else is there to try?
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
m6V9pyn.png

Servers make little difference (same if I go via restream)
 
Nass86

Nass86

Member
cyclemat said:
have you test another network driver?
Click to expand...

hey thanks for the reply. It has been on an older (on previous windows) and newer/current network driver from intel with no difference.

it seems really limited as to what else I can download unless there is such thing as a generic windows driver I could try an over write with?
 
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