Wifi Streaming solution to OBS

[RPGWiZaRD]

I'm wondering if anyone happen to know of any existing reasonably priced (preferably under 700~800€) option to stream via wifi to OBS. Basically I'm looking for a portable option to complement the already existing stationary streaming options for a church so they can also broadcast from other locations as well as use it for various angles inside the church if needed.

Ideally would be a camcorder with IP camera support through UDP/RTSP etc. live view but it seems these options are scarse or expensive/larger in size when I'd prefer a more compact/cheaper option. This one would be PERFECT if it supported live view through the network which it based on lack of results I made the conclusion it doesn't, only through a mobile app you can hook it wirelessly which isn't what I need as I need connection to a computer so the audio is hooked up to a mixer etc.

I'm like open to camcorders, surveillance cameras, anything that would be reasonably compact in size, offer some preferably minimum 15x optical zoom or so, 1080p streaming capable with IP camera/UDP/RTSP streaming capability with a battery (can be hooked up to a battery pack if needed but if battery lasts say 1½ hr+ on its own that would also work)

I've successfully used a Hikvision surveillance PTZ camera in another church temporarily until the solution got more permanently installed (via PoE) hooked up to a basic Huawei 4G router and the computer was hooked up to the same router wirelessly and was using Gstreamer pipeline as I found it was some of the only lag-free options available and it worked suprisingly good with barely any delay to speak of. So I'm looking for something similar but as a portable non PoE / wifi streaming option where computer would be hooked up to the router wired and the cam would be hooked up to the same ASUS router wirelessly.

Any advice would be greatly appriciated. :)

 

[shansmi]

I really have nothing on this... I have been looking for something similar but for home security where I want IP cameras to hit my NAS for local cloud storage. I can view the footage via a browser from there. You can also "stream to a PC" with the native windows app. Nothing says that streaming via the native app has to be Ethernet as it is WiFi to my TVs and Ethernet to my LAN computers - all of them work. If you can stream more than one movie, I guess you could stream more than one camera feed (be careful as they rotate based on time and size). Other than that you are right things get expensive fast with PoE switches and routers then adding in more expensive cameras and mics.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

One thing to be cautious of is mixing video input connection technology, as each will have different transmit and processing latency.
so, it depends on existing camera if any. For example, I have an NDI PTZ camera for our House of Worship (HoW) service. Folks have asked about adding 2nd cameras, which the OBS PC is more than powerful enough for, and the beauty of NDI being single cable. But such cameras are not cheap, of course. Adding a USB, HDMI, or SDI camera to our mix would be a huge headache (and probably not worth the 'cost savings', if any). I'm not aware of OBS having option to adjust video latency, especially on a per source basis. There are external hardware devices I know can do this, at a high price.
In HoW setting (depending on denomination), another key consideration is low-light capture ability (as lighting is often not as bright as desired for video). Cheap network cameras tend to skimp on low-light optical clarity capability, and video encoding speed. Many IP security cameras are known for atrociously bad latency.
For in-sanctuary video, with a good PTZ camera and proper operations (slow panning), we've found a single camera is fine (not ideal, but perfectly acceptable). But, for when that mounted camera isn't enough, I have a dedicated WiFi access point setup, and NDI video app on smartphone/tablet, and can use them as remote cameras/mics. The benefit by using mobile NDI is not exact, but fairly similar latency across cameras. Further, we try to use our sound system, which includes 2 wireless mics for whenever mobility is required, vs using in-camera mic.
Obviously what is missing is the optical zoom you mentioned. (though if doing that, I'd assume you wouldn't be using a built-in mic if it had one)
Assuming use of NDI, Have you tested whether an upper-end multi-lens smartphone, mounted on a tripod or gimbal, and then digitally zooming in would look like? would it suffice?

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

I know lag can be a serious issue, that's why I'd recommend folks to check out https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/obs-gstreamer.696/ as this brought down lag comparing Hikvision IP camera streamed via 4G modem down from like 1+ sec delay of built-in RTSP stream in OBS to 400 ms or whatever using VLC source to like 50 ms using Gstreamer, not kidding.

In one church the setup is Hikvision PTZ surveillance cam with 25x optical zoom using said gstreamer plugin as well as a scene switcher plugin which I can then fetch directly the different pre programmed camera angles/zoom setting to OBS so it changes angle as you click on the different scenes. On top of that they also have a USB webcamera (The Logitech 4K Brio which is decent for its price) and on top of that they also have the capability to setup additional cameras through smartphones using Droidcam which offers decent latency, would estimate around 50 ms or so, so it's not necessary to add any delay as it's rather minimal.

Most other churches in the region are just using the webcam + smartphone combination. But they would gladly add a better portable/movable cam to the mix with decent optical zoom as the main issue with smartphones besides not perhaps being the very best in quality unless you are using more recent models, is the lack of zoom capabilities as things get ugly almost instantly due to digital zoom so you are kinda limited in where you place them. Some newer smartphones do have some 5x optical zoom or whatever but they are those newer Samsung smartphones and alike so we're talking 700€+ cost at only rather marginal improvements to what they already have so ideally would be a camcorder of some sort but preferably not the Panasonic HC-X1500 which does exactly what I'd need with Wifi and live feed through UDP/RTSP stream and direct YouTube livestreaming even that would remove the need to have a computer when you are on the go even. But I was hoping there would be some alternatives preferably a bit smaller and cheaper but there's been few alternatives that I've found so far. I'm not looking for professional stream quality here but better than your standard grandma tries to do a livestream but not a TV quality stream if we say so. Like even a reasonably cheap surveillance camera would probably offer a decent upgrade with better zoom capabilities than your digital zoom smartphone cam but it would then also need wifi + battery which rules out a lot of options especially when you'd need one with optical zoom instead of digital but guess you can't have it all...

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Feels like a company focusing on livestreaming equipment in this pandemic times has been missed out largely. If I was in the business I would have tried to offer a budget Wifi live feed supporting 1080p camcorder with ~20x zoom capability in a bit more compact size and whatever specs can be had at 500~600€, a PoE PTZ camera at ~1000€ priceclass and do it all 4K Camcorder alternative at 1500€ as well as PTZ models with a decent batterypack fastened at the base. Feels that alone would have covered most of the demands people have had during pandemic times.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

So perhaps I should forget about network RTSP streaming and use HDMI wireless transfer transmitter+reciever combo instead? Didn't know this existed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxArgsnKKBM

The pricing seems a bit high though, at least for this product reviewed here but I guess it gets costly when it's made work reliably. Brings the huge advantage of being able to pick just about any camera you want.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

RTSP latency on the LAN could be okay, BUT usually folks are using cheap gear (like security cameras), and cheap gear vendor has no business motivation to spend the extra on better chips and then optimize their firmware for low RTSP stream latency (as most customers aren't aware/don't care/won't pay for it). So, you get what you pay for. If you want consistent, low latency for IP based LAN video streaming, NDI is the safer option, but you'll pay for it.
I'd only consider a wireless transmitter if there was someone planning/installing/operating with wireless network engineering level knowledge. I've lost count of times I've started to assist in troubleshooting, only to find someone is using Wi-Fi with no clue what they are doing and not understanding why they are having trouble (equivalent of driving blind-folded and wondering why they are running into things and calling it random). For reliability & consistency, I'd never use wireless unless literally a cabled connection wasn't an option [and then such a wireless equivalent optics option, if reliable, would cost way more than an NDI PoE option].
As for ~1000€ no-name or support NDI PTZ cameras, those are out now (quite a few actually). The optics, support, drivers, etc aren't up to the Tier 1 PTZ vendors, but may well suffice in many circumstances. For example, they tend to be chinese knock-offs of prior year Tier 1 vendor models, with not as smooth PTZ motors, driver quality leaving a lot to be desired, poor English translation on menus, etc. But with some research I'm sure you could find something that works for you.

In terms of portability
- I tried a circa 2015 gaming laptop and it failed, while a newer engineering workstation class laptop worked ok (other than Corp security s/w , probably DLP, causing interruptions in stream). So a recent laptop, with nVidia GPU is more than doable for 1080p HoW streaming. For over a year, with in-person worship not allowed, I had somewhat portable setup, torn down/redone each week
- Workstation laptop as mentioned, plus a 2nd monitor, hooked up to a spare home router I had (for network isolation) with WAN port connected via 100ft ethernet cable into the church office router/switch. With only 2 or 3 of us in the sanctuary, I also set up a LED light and softbox which really helped. We started using USB webcam mic (which was poor audio quality), then switched to a Bluetooth headset mic (better), then over to Sanctuary sound system and its wireless lav mic (excellent)
- We ran a USB webcam (Logitech c920) on a tripod for 6 months (at 6ft from priest). Then we got new PC, PoE switch, and NDI PTZ 22x camera. For 2020 Christmas Eve and 2021 Easter services, I setup up the whole system outside in parking lot. Streaming PC on a table next to sound system with Panasonic AW-HN38 22x 1080p camera connected via a single Ethernet cable, gaffer taped to parking lot asphalt, to camera on a tall tripod at back of audience facing 'alter'). For night time outdoor service, at time with only candlelight, worked well [switched Service Bulletin in PowerPoint from using white background to a gray to avoid excess contrast for remote viewers (night blindness)]
with 22x optical zoom on PTZ, I can get plenty close with camera 50ft away from person speaking

So in terms of portable, a decent Pelican case for a laptop, router with PoE LAN port, NDI PTZ Camera + Large/heavy Tripod, and then audio gain/adapters to connect into sound system, and a couple of long ethernet cables (1 to camera, 1 to wired ISP connection) and gaffer tape .. and all set. 2nd monitor if needed/desired. To be on the safe side, also have a nice Auto-Voltage regulating (possible pure sine wave) battery backup unit
I'm looking at possibly a less expensive 4K NDI webcam, with an ePTZ type functionality as a b-camera angle (vs US$2K for a 2nd AW-HN38)