Why H.265 will never come for streaming!

[anaskaddar20]

There is no General Discussion so i might post it here...
So many people are yelling at twitch they should implement H.265
so now i will explain you why this will never happen and that twitch is actually
clever to not make that step they are actually protecting you for even trying to stream H.265.

First of all what is better on H.265? You get around 30% better image quality on the same bitrate and
the file on the same bitrate is just half as big as x264. So what is worse on H.265? Its the rendering time.
It takes almost 20 times longer to render with the same settings as for x264. So you get a smaller file
and a 30% better looking image for 20 times longer time. So if you dont care for image size you would be better
of getting the bitrate much higher so you quality would be better than with H.265 but you still would render faster.
So how would this go for streaming? Well most people only see the side that it will be better because more quality for less bandwith.
But they dont see that if you stream with 60fps you have to render these 60 frames in a second. That needs a pretty good pc on
x264 as you should already know if you wanna stream at a good quality. Lets say on a specific setting you pc is just good enough to handle the 60fps so
even if your pc would just have 0.0001% less performance you wouldnt hit the 60fps anymore. Than on the same settings but with H.265 on this same pc your pc could only handle to render 3fps. So it just doesnt make sense to use H.265 so stop yelling at twitch thx guys.

 

[Yukano]

hi,

what you have written is not complete correct so. or i think you mean x.265????
with an hardware encoder , H.265 is better for streamers and their upload.
5400kb/s for 720p@60 (h.264) and nearly the same for 1080p@60 with H.265 thats a word.
the decode needs more power and thats the bottle nack of all.
encoding with an cpu needs every time more resources as a hardware encoder.
( tested with TBS 2603 HDMI hardware encoder )

****************************************************************************
the question is :

- what can we get for a maximum quality with our upload
- and all that with a minimum of hardware load

i think we are not interested what twitch or the viewer needed for deconding.

basics on the streamers side are (6Mbit upload limitations for twitch.tv):

NVENC (chip on a GTX) = needs a higher datarate for better quallity, but nearly no performance lost on gpu or cpu.
x.264 (software encoder) = needs more cpu resourcses for compression, but has a good base quality.
h.264 (hardware encoder) = is a bit better then the GPU - NVENC , but needs not so a high amount of data rate.
h.265 (hardware encoder) = less data rate than h.264 , with a little bit better quality
x.265 (software encoder) = i dont know details about that

example from my TBS:
(h.264 720p@60 5500kb/s included Audio)
(h.265 1080p@60 5800kb/s included Audio)

not our thing:
the viewer can view the uncompressed material (source), or can decode higher compressed material (pre decoded by twitch).
to decode higher compressed material, more resources needed on cpu or gpu.
i have not considered the "hardware decoders" :)

and that means :
we need more options in obs for the mostly used or exists encoders. :)

another thing is the decoders side ^^ thats not realy our problem XD

*******************************************************************************************

best regards
yukano

 

[FortuN]

There is no General Discussion so i might post it here...
So many people are yelling at twitch they should implement H.265
so now i will explain you why this will never happen and that twitch is actually
clever to not make that step they are actually protecting you for even trying to stream H.265.

First of all what is better on H.265? You get around 30% better image quality on the same bitrate and
the file on the same bitrate is just half as big as x264. So what is worse on H.265? Its the rendering time.
It takes almost 20 times longer to render with the same settings as for x264. So you get a smaller file
and a 30% better looking image for 20 times longer time. So if you dont care for image size you would be better
of getting the bitrate much higher so you quality would be better than with H.265 but you still would render faster.
So how would this go for streaming? Well most people only see the side that it will be better because more quality for less bandwith.
But they dont see that if you stream with 60fps you have to render these 60 frames in a second. That needs a pretty good pc on
x264 as you should already know if you wanna stream at a good quality. Lets say on a specific setting you pc is just good enough to handle the 60fps so
even if your pc would just have 0.0001% less performance you wouldnt hit the 60fps anymore. Than on the same settings but with H.265 on this same pc your pc could only handle to render 3fps. So it just doesnt make sense to use H.265 so stop yelling at twitch thx guys.

This aged well, no impact at all on my system and its been available for a while now on youtube. Nice bs

 

[OrbitaLinx]

So basically Twitch just favors team green...