using IP security cameras for streaming

[Morejello]

Question for those who are using IP cameras to stream through OBS, is there a particular brand that is easier to use than others, or conversely a particular brand that I should shy away from?
We're building a system for our local animal shelter which will stream video from inside their 'kitten bowl' for a few hours each day. It's got to be simple, cheap, and moderately reliable, so we're looking at outdoor rated IP cameras. The PC will be located not adjacent to the kittens, so USB cameras wouldn't be ideal for the application.

 

[Fbosman]

We use jvc pz100. Axis, Dahua and Reolink camera’s, all on rtsp and use Obs as switcher.
It all runs ok.

 

[Zeros.81]

AXIS camera also provide you "Axis Streaming Assistant" so you can use your IP camera directly on any videoconference software

AXIS Streaming Assistant | Axis Communications

For streaming applications

www.axis.com

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

I too am interested in this
I have a nice Panasonic AW-HN38 NDI PTZ camera... but its expensive, and I'd like some alternate perspectives (camera angles) and am not in a position to buy more Panasonic (or similar Tier 1) NDI PTZ cameras at this time..
I found one YouTuber that does reviews of IP security cameras, with an eye towards security, not streaming, but important to this discussion is he does a video quality test as pixel count can be misleading, at best. so in case this helps
- for PTZ IP cameras https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MoynorQ3y0
- PoE for 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZJX8CKR5KI

Hopefully
- you realize a key ingredient to look for is the resolution and frames per second (I'd avoid the many devices that only do 15 fps).. look for 30fps at the resolution you desire (and is that 720p. 1080p or 4k? or ??)
- someone else will correct me if I'm wrong, but many of the IP security cameras support ONVIF, a common real time streaming protocol (RTSP). OBS can use RTSP, though I've read about latency issues.... though that probably wouldn't be an issue for your use case (is for mine)

If I'm recalling correctly, one nice solution.. and often not available for low-cost overseas built units, is a virtual USB driver to connect to that camera and make its video feed appear like a locally connected USB camera (usable in any app that could use USB cam)

Win10 now has native ability to connect to such cameras ... as long as NO username/password is required... duh / face palm... stupid M$.. how 1990s.. anyway, I've heard some nicer vendors offer such a virtual USB driver themselves. there appear to be relatively inexpensive 3rd party software than can work with multiple mfg cameras,... ymmv.. I'm just starting to look into this​

 

[Ian manning]

We use jvc pz100. Axis, Dahua and Reolink camera’s, all on rtsp and use Obs as switcher.
It all runs ok.

how do you connect the JVC PZ100 as a source and how do you set the camera up? I have the same camera and cant get it to work
Thanks

 

[Fbosman]

We use the rtsp stream of the jvc.
You must setup rtsp as the streaming protocol in the network settings (set a password also!) and turn the streaming “on”.
In Obs we use a vlc source in the form as in the attached image. 0000 is the password we use.

 

[Jud Leonard]

I have a Dahua camera that supports RTSP, but it requires a username and password. How do you specify them to the OBS plugin?

Ahh, found it. rtsp://username:password@ipaddress in the VLC source.

 

[gsapic81]

Has anyone tried to use surveillance cameras for streaming videos with a lot of movement? I am looking to stream amateur boxing events which are typically well lit and there is not a lot of movement across the whole field of vision since the ring is static. The fighters move all the time as well as does the referee and this needs to be clear and without blur at 1920x1080 @30 fps.
I was looking at cameras like the Sony SNC-EB630 or the Sanyo VCC-HD2100 or maybe the Bosch DINION cameras. They will typically have CS-mount lenses with variable focus which is also a must.
I was hoping to get some online wisdom prior to getting one, though.

 

[saltyd]

Has anyone tried to use surveillance cameras for streaming videos with a lot of movement? I am looking to stream amateur boxing events which are typically well lit and there is not a lot of movement across the whole field of vision since the ring is static. The fighters move all the time as well as does the referee and this needs to be clear and without blur at 1920x1080 @30 fps.
I was looking at cameras like the Sony SNC-EB630 or the Sanyo VCC-HD2100 or maybe the Bosch DINION cameras. They will typically have CS-mount lenses with variable focus which is also a must.
I was hoping to get some online wisdom prior to getting one, though.

Ironically, I'm building a setup now to use IP cams to record wrestling matches... with the same concerns as you. Fingers crossed (setting up and testing on Monday).

I ended up going with the Amcrest UltraHD 5MP cams. 30 FPS, high resolution options, etc. Though I'm a complete newb with all of this, they seemed to be a good solution and a low price point.

One issue to consider with IP cam's is lag (I lowered resolution and have to real-time lag down to about 300 ms.). If you're pulling sound from other sources (announcer mics, etc.) - you may need to adjust sync timing of those sources to match up with the lag in the camera.

 

[gsapic81]

Ironically, I'm building a setup now to use IP cams to record wrestling matches... with the same concerns as you. Fingers crossed (setting up and testing on Monday).

I ended up going with the Amcrest UltraHD 5MP cams. 30 FPS, high resolution options, etc. Though I'm a complete newb with all of this, they seemed to be a good solution and a low price point.

One issue to consider with IP cam's is lag (I lowered resolution and have to real-time lag down to about 300 ms.). If you're pulling sound from other sources (announcer mics, etc.) - you may need to adjust sync timing of those sources to match up with the lag in the camera.

I expected zero replies and instead, I get this :). Perfect! Please let me know the result. If you could share some video once you capture it, I'd really appreciate it.
As for the lag, you have a point.If I remember correctly, in telecommunications (voice calls), everything up to 300ms is considered acceptable so you might be OK. Within the acceptable limits, that is.

 

[saltyd]

I expected zero replies and instead, I get this :). Perfect! Please let me know the result. If you could share some video once you capture it, I'd really appreciate it.
As for the lag, you have a point.If I remember correctly, in telecommunications (voice calls), everything up to 300ms is considered acceptable so you might be OK. Within the acceptable limits, that is.

:) Will do.

One thing that I read that stuck in my head when thinking on this. These cameras are for SURVEILLENCE - not streaming.

When watching a surveillance cam vid, you don't realize that it's not 100% real time. It doesnt matter if you're just using a single camera and getting audio from that source. The issue comes from what I mentioned above (different audio sources and delays. It'll look crummy if you have an announcer talking about a boxer getting knocked down, but the video source hasn't shown that happening yet. Or the sound of punches that don't match up to the punch on the camera video).

Previously, I was using old phone's and a program called IVCam (essentially turning each phone into a wifi camera). Worked fine for low resolution video quality, but had all types of lag issues when I tried to bump up to 1080p quality. Of course, I'm working in an area with zero internet possibilities - which limits my options without creativity. Hoping the hard-wired ip cams will do the trick.

Oh one more thing. Make sure you have a switch that offers Power Over Ethernet (PoE) ports. This is how your cam will get power. Or, you'll need to get PoE injectors - an adapter your camera plugs into (which plugs into an outlet) to get it's power.

 

[gsapic81]

:) Will do.

One thing that I read that stuck in my head when thinking on this. These cameras are for SURVEILLENCE - not streaming.

When watching a surveillance cam vid, you don't realize that it's not 100% real time. It doesnt matter if you're just using a single camera and getting audio from that source. The issue comes from what I mentioned above (different audio sources and delays. It'll look crummy if you have an announcer talking about a boxer getting knocked down, but the video source hasn't shown that happening yet. Or the sound of punches that don't match up to the punch on the camera video).

Previously, I was using old phone's and a program called IVCam (essentially turning each phone into a wifi camera). Worked fine for low resolution video quality, but had all types of lag issues when I tried to bump up to 1080p quality. Of course, I'm working in an area with zero internet possibilities - which limits my options without creativity. Hoping the hard-wired ip cams will do the trick.

Oh one more thing. Make sure you have a switch that offers Power Over Ethernet (PoE) ports. This is how your cam will get power. Or, you'll need to get PoE injectors - an adapter your camera plugs into (which plugs into an outlet) to get it's power.

Maybe you know this, but in case you don't - you can sync various inputs using filters. So, click on a particular stream source (Cam1), then Filters -> Render Delay

 

[saltyd]

Maybe you know this, but in case you don't - you can sync various inputs using filters. So, click on a particular stream source (Cam1), then Filters -> Render Delay

Yup yup. With this situation though - audio will (most likely) always come in quicker than audio feed. The render delay filter might just be another way to achieve the same thing.

 

[Zeros.81]

There are some AXIS cameras that have built-in mic or an audio mic-in input. For example the AXIS P1378. So the camera muxes the audio with the video and you receive via RTSP both in sync.

 

[JohnPee]

I have used Reolink 4K POE security cameras which can use the RTSP protocol to stream to the Internet or to OBS. They seem to work well but the frame rate is not 30 fps.

 

[gsapic81]

I have used Reolink 4K POE security cameras which can use the RTSP protocol to stream to the Internet or to OBS. They seem to work well but the frame rate is not 30 fps.

Could you share a link to the video sample perhaps? I'd like to see what it looks like.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

security cameras tend to have terrible optics (see lengthy discussions on why over at ipcamtalk).

Consumer grade security cameras are even worse. Can you get such to work? ... sure. Will it look good? most unlikely. Will it be good enough? only the end-user can answer that
Consumer security camera sensors are too low of quality, chipset is optimized for cost and first-and-foremost, with performance a distant afterthought. The consumers get for 4K security camera with sensor designed for 1080p, and low-light and motion performance suffer. basically, there is some magic that can overcome physics limitations in optics, but at expense of powerful CPU... which inexpensive security cameras don't have. It is not uncommon to have multiple cameras from same vendor have varying rendering lag (because in security camera environment, consistent latency, lack of jitter, etc are not important) not always, but sometimes, so be sure to test. Having varying latency is likely to NOT be a cause for warranty replacement .

If you have LOTS of light ( the amount where you'd start to think about putting sunglasses on), then you might be ok with a typical color 1080p30 security camera, IF the motion is not fast (obviously doesn't apply to boxing).

So, if your choice is terrible image quality vs nothing, then sure, consider a security camera (again, I find the website referenced above to be a great resource). otherwise, recognize there is an extent to which decent optics, sensor, and processing ability simply costs money. Where costs go up is for even faster fps (ie 60+fps), or low-light performance (often needed for indoor settings). And I strongly recommend buying from someplace you can easily return the cameras if they don't meet your needs, and test thoroughly in time for such a return process/timeline

 

[saltyd]

security cameras tend to have terrible optics (see lengthy discussions on why over at ipcamtalk).

Consumer grade security cameras are even worse. Can you get such to work? ... sure. Will it look good? most unlikely. Will it be good enough? only the end-user can answer that
Consumer security camera sensors are too low of quality, chipset is optimized for cost and first-and-foremost, with performance a distant afterthought. The consumers get for 4K security camera with sensor designed for 1080p, and low-light and motion performance suffer. basically, there is some magic that can overcome physics limitations in optics, but at expense of powerful CPU... which inexpensive security cameras don't have. It is not uncommon to have multiple cameras from same vendor have varying rendering lag (because in security camera environment, consistent latency, lack of jitter, etc are not important) not always, but sometimes, so be sure to test. Having varying latency is likely to NOT be a cause for warranty replacement .

If you have LOTS of light ( the amount where you'd start to think about putting sunglasses on), then you might be ok with a typical color 1080p30 security camera, IF the motion is not fast (obviously doesn't apply to boxing).

So, if your choice is terrible image quality vs nothing, then sure, consider a security camera (again, I find the website referenced above to be a great resource). otherwise, recognize there is an extent to which decent optics, sensor, and processing ability simply costs money. Where costs go up is for even faster fps (ie 60+fps), or low-light performance (often needed for indoor settings). And I strongly recommend buying from someplace you can easily return the cameras if they don't meet your needs, and test thoroughly in time for such a return process/timeline

Forgive my ignorance on even phrasing this properly...

For higher quality... are there regular camera options that could send the video data across cat6? Not webcams, though.

The issues I have to overcome first are:

1) No internet service available to use at location
2) Long-distances between cameras (longest Cat6 cable in my setup is 200 ft)
3) I'm trying to record everything through OBS in real time... vs. spending countless hours editing videos in post.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

For higher quality... are there regular camera options that could send the video data across cat6? Not webcams, though.

Yes, with a common feature being NDI on upper-end networked cameras (though NDI itself not really required, but has interesting Pro's & Con's unto itself.)
Personally, I use NDI PoE PTZ cameras, though SDI or even HDMI (with extra adapters) can run over 200ft cable runs. depends on some other specific details as to why to choose one technology over another. But in a green-field type setup, with broadcast quality GenLock or similar required (where one might consider SDI), I'd go with the more future-oriented NDI type cameras.
You could use RTSP or other network video streaming protocols, but be sure to thoroughly research the implications of each protocol, as well as things like consistent Jitter and Latency across cameras. You tend to get what you pay for, and NDI licenses to camera mfgs isn't free, so the cameras tend to cost more... and the cameras have higher requirements to meet for license compliance... up to you whether budget/priorities align

The issues I have to overcome first are:
1) No internet service available to use at location
2) Long-distances between cameras (longest Cat6 cable in my setup is 200 ft)
3) I'm trying to record everything through OBS in real time... vs. spending countless hours editing videos in post.

Decent networked cameras are not 'cloud' based (dependent), so not having Internet is a non-issue
Standard Ethernet cable length limits is 100meters (300+ft) with standard actually defined (a while ago, I haven't checked latest, but I'm guessing not changed) that as a 90m limit, with 5m patch cord on either end... (for a certified install)
200ft CAT6 cable runs are no issue for 1GbE, though, depending on environment, and adherence to cabling standards (ex avoiding close proximity parallel runs along power cabling) you may want/need Shielded cables

Your use case makes sense. One thing to consider, is that by default (natively) you can't record each video stream independently. There is a plugin for this (with corresponding hardware resource impact... lots of extra Disk I/O). In your use case (sporting event), you may want/need a full quality original video, in which case either
- getting camera that can locally record (which my cameras can do) .. as a just-in-case backup source
or
- setting up something (depends on technology/protocols being utilized), to record the individual video streams in a central location. For network cameras there multiple potential approaches

For reference, your typical camera selection process would look something like this
- do you have (or willing to get) sufficient Ethernet networking expertise to setup and operate/monitor video network environment? there are unique considerations to avoid 'hidden' complications [ not all that bad, but do NOT assume a typical home LAN/flat network will work fine (it might.. .depending.. but also might not.. depending]
- what focal length and light sensitivity is required for the cameras? ie what will distance from camera to subject be, and what field of view is desired... [ie, wide-angle, telephoto, ??] online calculators will let you put in your environment to get focal length estimate. You can use a DSLR or similar camera to get an estimate for both focal length and F-stop, though you'll have to convert for sensor size of network camera (a 50mm lens for full frame vs APS-C vs 1/2.8" sensor are all different things)
- Statically placed cameras, or manually adjust during event or remote control (Pan/Tilt/Zoom). IF PTZ, how clean of does the motion need to be (smoother movement costs more)
- lighting available (LED lightning or ?), and then cameras ability to white balance and avoid flickering for that light source
- desired resolution (1080p, 4K) and frame rate? sporting events often benefit from having 60fps available, but each increase in capability while maintaining image quality costs more
- local in-camera record option?

For reference, a standard 'authorized' retail Tier 1 mfg NDI PoE PTZ camera is around US$2K for 1080P, and US$4K+ for 4K (2160p) resolution, though discounts/sales/non-traditional retailers, and knock-off vendors are all available. If 1080p30(60) cameras are sufficient, and new isn't required, plenty of places are upgrading from 1080p to 4K cameras, so good condition used (or new-old-stock, or Open Box) NDI PTZ cameras are available (with the risk of buying 'used') at steep discounts... cheapest static NDI camera tends to run around US$500.. lots of options/price points, depending on needs/requirements

 

[saltyd]

Thank you again for the detailed feedback!