Question / Help Using Fullscreen Projector option to feed video to livestreaming device

regstuff

Member
Was wondering if it is feasible to do this sort of thing. Basically I use the Full Screen Projector option of the preview and then send that signal over the laptop's HDMI out to a Livestreaming device, such as LiveU Solo or Teradek VidiU. Was wondering if this signal would be equivalent to a proper video signal or more like the 60Hz monitor signal and not ideal as a video source to the livestream device.

Why would I want such a setup? Sometimes I have multiple camera sources, and a video mixer is not always handy. A LiveU Solo device is much more reliable in an outdoor/on-the-field situation since it adapts the streaming bitrate according to the bandwidth, and also has support for cellular/wifi/ethernet bonding. So I'd just like to use OBS as a switcher to feed the LiveU sometimes.
 

R1CH

Forum Admin
Developer
That will work, it would output 1080p60 or whatever you configure the HDMI connection to. I doubt there are many devices that accept HDMI that can't handle that, unless you have some kind of analog system in the pipeline somewhere.
 

regstuff

Member
That will work, it would output 1080p60 or whatever you configure the HDMI connection to. I doubt there are many devices that accept HDMI that can't handle that, unless you have some kind of analog system in the pipeline somewhere.

Thanks for the reply. Would the video signal's original bitrate be maintained? For example, let's say the video transmission data rate on the camera is set at 250 mbps for resolution 1080p60. The signal passes through a SDI cable to a SDI capture device and then is picked up into OBS. Will the HDMI out from the Projector option also maintain the same bitrate and resolution? (Assuming of course all the settings in OBS are appropriate and the capture device can handle that data rate etc.)
 
The bitrate set in the camera is only relevant for recording in-camera and does not affect the SDI signal bitrate which would be around 2,970 Gbit/s (3G-SDI). The signal going through sdi/obs/hdmi is "not" beeing compressed. Also the bitrate set in obs only affects the h264 stream/record made by obs. So in short there won't be any image quality loss if you are concerned with that. (The only time the signal might get compressed if you use a usb capture card because of the bandwidth limitation of usb)
As for resolution and framerate, both are set in the windows display settings because the hdmi out is just like another monitor for windows. You just have to match the OBS framerate and display output refreshrate with the input framerate.
 
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DrAlbany

Member
I've been doing it this way for a live football (soccer) match for the past couple of years. Was using x-split but now using OBS to project to a second monitor which is a capture device via HDMI, this is then sent to the big screen.

Hope this helps....
 

regstuff

Member
For anyone who comes across this, I tried this out and it worked fine. You'll have to make sure your default audio device is set to the "new display" (the LiveU). This should appear once you connect the HDMI between LiveU and your computer. This is how it is in Windows. Not sure about the Mac.

Note that this is basically your system audio being routed to the LiveU, which means all sounds in your system (including non-OBS ones) will end up going to the LiveU. If you want to avoid this, there's probably some routing that can be done using a software audio router. I haven't checked that out though.
 

aaronkothe

New Member
@regstuff I'm so glad I finally found this thread. I want to use OBS for adding media, graphics, color correction, etc. to my broadcasts, but use a hardware encoder to do the heavy lifting. Though this won't prevent the stream from crashing in the event of an OBS crash... [unless there is a budget hardware encoder that has two inputs - one of which would come from OBS projector and the other directly from a hardware switcher - and would fail over from one to the other, hmm] ...but it would save system resources and produce a better, more flexible stream with things like adaptable bandwidth, bonding, etc. as you mentioned.

I've done some fiddling towards this end, but am glad to know there are other people interested in the same thing. One concern, at least on Mac, is that the task bar persists on the projector output. This seems to be correctable with some tweaking of Mac settings, however. I've also noticed that the mouse can still be seen on top of the projector output, regardless of the "don't show mouse over projector" setting. Perhaps this is a version bug or something. I suppose it's not a big deal, as long as you're careful.

My biggest concerns with such a setup are 1) video quality and 2) audio.

As for audio: OBS does have the ability to locally monitor audio sources, and do so on an individual basis. I assume audio monitoring selections are persistent across scenes, just like sources. I've done some poking around and discovered that the monitored audio does include filters, as well as the other advanced audio properties like summing and panning. Volume control for the monitored audio includes both the source's volume slider in OBS and the audio controls on your computer. I haven't scientifically tested the sync, but it seems that the monitored audio syncs nicely with the projector video - no reason to expect that it wouldn't. Without some complicated workarounds, the streamed audio and monitored audio are not independently controllable, unless I missed something. Importantly, though, you do still have your computer's audio controls to determine the volume of the monitored audio output - it's very important that be independent.

An obvious problem if using monitored audio and projector video is that the audio and video signals are separate. Unless in a situation where HDMI video and analog audio can be easily combined at the end use (or don't need to be combined, I suppose), a fix for this would be needed. My best guess for this would be an HDMI audio embedder ( https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889742-REG/Sescom_SES_AUDIO_N_HDMI_HDMI_Audio_Inserter.html and https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13347 ). The Sescom looks like it has a better chance of working, given some negative reviews about the Monoprice unit on various sites. I'm absolutely certain that there are other audio software solutions to this problem. If anyone has any specific ideas, please let me know!

As for video: it seems to me that, as R1CH said above, the projector output is as high quality as the source(s) you're sending OBS. I've seen multiple devs/admins say similar things in various posts. I have quite a bit more digging to do on this front. Is the projector output's resolution is the same as the base canvas? What about frame rate? I'm sure I have lots to learn about this.

Cheers!
 

aaronkothe

New Member
Addendum:

I tested outputting OBS via projector to a Decimator MD-HX on my MacBook Pro. At first it seemed like it wasn't working, but it had just defaulted to mirrored displays. Once I un-mirrored displays, everything worked well. I determined that the projector output resolution & frame rate was determined by the computer's display settings, not anything in OBS. Since I have decent control over output settings on my MBP, I was able to test several different resolutions and frame rates - all worked fine and were reflected immediately on the MD-HX. Changing sources inside OBS with different frame rates and resolutions did not affect the output whatsoever. It seems to me that my computer's GPU is handling any scaling that is necessary, not OBS, although I could be wrong about this.

It seems to me that as long as you set your base canvas resolution in OBS and the output display resolution in your computer's settings to the max resolution of any of your anticipated sources (cameras, media, etc.), then you should be seeing full resolution pass through from source to projector output. Importantly, it does not seem like your output (scaled) resolution or FPS value in OBS affects the projector output at all.

I ran videos up to 1080p60 and everything worked just fine. In theory, you could even drive 4K using this method, assuming your computer is capable of outputting 4K (I could easily be wrong about this.)
 

regstuff

Member
@aaronkothe Great to here it's working for you. Some of my comments are below within the quotes. Look for >>> for my replies. But one question I have is, what's your encoder? Decimator MD-HX looks like a cross converter.

Addendum:

I tested outputting OBS via projector to a Decimator MD-HX on my MacBook Pro. At first it seemed like it wasn't working, but it had just defaulted to mirrored displays. Once I un-mirrored displays, everything worked well. I determined that the projector output resolution & frame rate was determined by the computer's display settings, not anything in OBS.

>>> Yes, this was how it worked for me.

Since I have decent control over output settings on my MBP, I was able to test several different resolutions and frame rates - all worked fine and were reflected immediately on the MD-HX. Changing sources inside OBS with different frame rates and resolutions did not affect the output whatsoever. It seems to me that my computer's GPU is handling any scaling that is necessary, not OBS, although I could be wrong about this.

>>> Yes, the Mac is doing all that. One thing I've noticed in one of the Macbook Pro's we tested is that the kernel task consumes a huge amount of CPU. Check this: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7699445
And possible solution here: https://apple.stackexchange.com/que...-more-than-one-external-monitor/164947#164947
Note that we had this problem on only one system. When we shifted to an iMac we didn't come across this. Not sure what the deal was.

It seems to me that as long as you set your base canvas resolution in OBS and the output display resolution in your computer's settings to the max resolution of any of your anticipated sources (cameras, media, etc.), then you should be seeing full resolution pass through from source to projector output. Importantly, it does not seem like your output (scaled) resolution or FPS value in OBS affects the projector output at all.

>>> Agreed.

I ran videos up to 1080p60 and everything worked just fine. In theory, you could even drive 4K using this method, assuming your computer is capable of outputting 4K (I could easily be wrong about this.)
>>> If you do test 4K let me know. We did 1080p25. Wanted to test 1080i50 and see how that works. Will update when I do.

@regstuff I'm so glad I finally found this thread. I want to use OBS for adding media, graphics, color correction, etc. to my broadcasts, but use a hardware encoder to do the heavy lifting. Though this won't prevent the stream from crashing in the event of an OBS crash... [unless there is a budget hardware encoder that has two inputs - one of which would come from OBS projector and the other directly from a hardware switcher - and would fail over from one to the other, hmm]

>>> Never come across any encoder with two inputs. Let me know if you do. :) We're worried about the OBS crash problem too, so we're actually thinking of keeping this option as a backup. The primary option is to use a video switcher (like this one: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...swatemtvstu_hd_atem_television_studio_hd.html though there may be cheaper options), and feed the graphics alone (the video area will be green-screened) through the projector view output of OBS. The actual video will come straight from the video source into the switcher, and chroma keying will combine the two. This is a bit more reliable. Also the audio goes straight through the switcher and is independent of your mac now. (Hope this paragraph made sense!)

...but it would save system resources and produce a better, more flexible stream with things like adaptable bandwidth, bonding, etc. as you mentioned.

>>> Again, which is the encoder you're using?

I've done some fiddling towards this end, but am glad to know there are other people interested in the same thing. One concern, at least on Mac, is that the task bar persists on the projector output. This seems to be correctable with some tweaking of Mac settings, however.

>>> I did not have this issue. Might have been because of Mirror Display?

I've also noticed that the mouse can still be seen on top of the projector output, regardless of the "don't show mouse over projector" setting. Perhaps this is a version bug or something. I suppose it's not a big deal, as long as you're careful.

>>> Did not face this issue.

My biggest concerns with such a setup are 1) video quality and 2) audio.

As for audio: OBS does have the ability to locally monitor audio sources, and do so on an individual basis. I assume audio monitoring selections are persistent across scenes, just like sources. I've done some poking around and discovered that the monitored audio does include filters, as well as the other advanced audio properties like summing and panning. Volume control for the monitored audio includes both the source's volume slider in OBS and the audio controls on your computer. I haven't scientifically tested the sync, but it seems that the monitored audio syncs nicely with the projector video - no reason to expect that it wouldn't.

>>> I can confirm that syncing was good and steady for a 30 minute live stream.

Without some complicated workarounds, the streamed audio and monitored audio are not independently controllable, unless I missed something. Importantly, though, you do still have your computer's audio controls to determine the volume of the monitored audio output - it's very important that be independent.

>>> One thing I noticed was that once I send the projector out to the other screen (the hardware encoder), I wasn't getting the audio on my laptop. A workaround is to go to your MIDI settings and create an Aggregate audio output that includes both your laptop system audio and the "other screen". This way you can hear on your laptop and stream it too.

An obvious problem if using monitored audio and projector video is that the audio and video signals are separate. Unless in a situation where HDMI video and analog audio can be easily combined at the end use (or don't need to be combined, I suppose), a fix for this would be needed.

>>> Not sure what you mean hear. The audio and video will both carry through the HDMI.

My best guess for this would be an HDMI audio embedder ( https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889742-REG/Sescom_SES_AUDIO_N_HDMI_HDMI_Audio_Inserter.html and https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13347 ). The Sescom looks like it has a better chance of working, given some negative reviews about the Monoprice unit on various sites. I'm absolutely certain that there are other audio software solutions to this problem. If anyone has any specific ideas, please let me know!

As for video: it seems to me that, as R1CH said above, the projector output is as high quality as the source(s) you're sending OBS. I've seen multiple devs/admins say similar things in various posts. I have quite a bit more digging to do on this front. Is the projector output's resolution is the same as the base canvas? What about frame rate? I'm sure I have lots to learn about this.

Cheers!
 

aaronkothe

New Member
@regstuff Thanks for the reply!

I'll just go in order, from the top.

I don't currently own a hardware encoder, I just use OBS to stream. I was only using the MD-HX for testing purposes - if signal hits the MD-HX, it would hit an encoder as well.

Thanks for the info on the potential CPU usage problem and fix.

VERY interesting idea, using OBS projector to add graphics/overlays via chroma-keying. That is, after all, similar to how the big boys do it. I already own the switcher you referenced, so I went ahead and did some testing. Here are my concerns:

+ As with any switcher, chroma-keying is never perfect and adds noise. Now, I am FAR from an expert on the matter, but chroma-keying on the ATEM seems a bit rough around the edges to me. It just doesn't look great, seems like something I'd never be 100% happy with and would frequently need to tinker with. But, then again, I have very little experience with it.
+ You lose an input. That may or may not be an issue with your setup, but something to consider.
+You lose some flexibility that running everything through OBS comes with. I don't have much in the way of outboard video or audio processing equipment, so I use OBS to do things like color correction and LUTs (video) and compression and VST plugins (audio). I also think that, in general, switching to a hardware encoder decreases flexibility - OBS seems to have more options than the hardware encoders I could afford. Again, these things may or may not affect you.

The positive, obviously, is that when you're only running graphics through OBS instead of the entire stream, if OBS crashes, all you've lost is graphics. Coupled with a hardware encoder, this method would mean your entire stream, other than graphics, is hardware based. Ostensibly, this would be mean a significant increase in reliability.

Back to the issue of audio when running OBS projector into a hardware encoder - oops! Not sure how I missed the option to send audio to the second display in my Mac's audio settings. Seems to work just fine that way, so disregard all that stuff about audio embedding! It's like I missed this entire post you made:

For anyone who comes across this, I tried this out and it worked fine. You'll have to make sure your default audio device is set to the "new display" (the LiveU). This should appear once you connect the HDMI between LiveU and your computer. This is how it is in Windows. Not sure about the Mac.

Note that this is basically your system audio being routed to the LiveU, which means all sounds in your system (including non-OBS ones) will end up going to the LiveU. If you want to avoid this, there's probably some routing that can be done using a software audio router. I haven't checked that out though.

Not being able to hear via the laptop isn't a concern for me, because I think I'll be adding a BMD Video Assist in between OBS and the hardware encoder. That way, I can make a high-quality recording of my final broadcast without having to use extra system resources by asking OBS to do it, plus all the other benefits of a video assist - monitoring, scopes, etc.

Speaking of hardware encoders, that's kinda the last thing on my list to research. Which encoder do you use and why?
 
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