Question / Help Twitch finally increased the bitrate "cap". Good news!

[Cryonic]

https://help.twitch.tv/customer/por...broadcast-requirements#Broadcast Requirements

Thats it. Recommended 3-6mbps. A good step towards 1080p 60 in heavy games (since more and more games with a lot of small details like PUBG pop up). Love it so far. This is recommended, not max.

Can we finally forget about that "3500 cap, 2000 for non partners" bullcrap or will you still recommend newcomers to drop the bitrate below watchable numbers?) Would love to see people taking that number and finally putting some heavy load on the servers, stresstesting it.

Since twitch is not officially posting it anywhere, it was a silent change, people have to notice it somehow :-) Spread the word.

 

[kladzen]

i have tried 6000kbit before... but twitch still seems to be showing it at 3500 kbit... - however i will try again

 

[XeiZ]

There is a reason 2000 was recommended and still will be. It has nothing to do with what twitch recommends.
It also has nothing to do with people having low bandwidth, thats the most common misunderstanding, anything too high will cause buffering. I wish they would've also seperated the recommendations into "with transcoding" and "without transcoding".

I know they have upped their game with giving transcoding to non partners with lower viewercounts and thats great but it still does not cover everyone.
If you do have transcoding and often get it or even keep it (seems like you dont lose it that quickly anymore between streams even when the average viewer numbers dropped) then sure 6k all the way now. But if you DONT have transcoding then 6000 will pretty much be the death of your channel and you will never get good viewer numbers, people dont say "your stream lags" (well some do...) but instead just leave.

 

[Cryonic]

They not only upped their game with the transcoding option and general server stability and performance. They also upped the routing HARD, i never saw any issues before and everyone who HAD some sort of issues on my own stream runs fine. I tested 7500+320, i will drive that even higher and pump out 10.000 + 320 audio today. Why?
Cause Playerunknown Battlegrounds looks meh @ veryfast 1080 60 even at 7500kbps.
And it is recommended, not max. So why not push it even harder :-)
And most of my russian friends have 100mbit/s symmetrical, some are even blessed with 1gbit/s both ways and yes, this is real world speed, not just on paper. We want to crank up the quality and actually achieve a 1:1 copy of what the streamer has on his monitor, some enthusiasts even think about 1440p or 4K streaming these days, since more and more people a) get high enough bandwith and b) transcoding options if they dont have the horsepower or bandwith.

For me the current situation is: if you recommend 2000kbps to newbies, you cripple their quality beyond watchable numbers with heavy games (hard to encode details like open field with grass). That further limits their ability to keep up with bigger channels out there. Taking over by offering outstanding video quality in 2017 should be a thing, specially if you are new and want to hunt with the big dogs out there - you have to have similar or better video & audio quality. Limiting yourself to low bitrate will drive some people away. If i have to choose between 2 similar channels where one of them offers way better videoquality - it is pretty clear who gets my attention.

 

[XeiZ]

1 week in the support channel and you will see a whole new world with how many "new streamers" with 3500 right NOW ask why their stream buffers for "everyone".

 

[Fenrir]

Twitch's infrastructure aside, understand that average internet speeds mean that bitrates much higher than 2500 will alienate a large potential viewer base.

"Works for me, must work for everyone, right?"

 

[Cryonic]

Understand the average speed in the target area. Mine is Russia and CIS. This region is well above 50mbit/s average with a usual connection hovering around 100/100. And this is nothing special. I personally live in Germany and most places here have 100/40 VDSL or up to 400/25 cable. So that is DEFINETLY not an issue worldwide, everybody has enough to watch a 10.000kbps stream. it will affect only a few people who are unlucky enough to watch via 3G.

And i expect nobody to complain since i stream at way higher bitrates for a long time and i have no viewers complaining about it, 3 months i stream almost daily and not a single issue besides my ISP working on the fibreoptics network here.

 

[RytoEX]

@Cryonic
Sorry, but respectfully, no, not "everybody has enough to watch a 10.000kbps stream".

First, yes, there are still streams/channels that do not have transcoding. That is becoming increasingly rare, but they do still exist at this time (I have personally verified this, and anyone else is free to do the same).

According to Akamai's Q4 2016 State of the Internet Connectivity Report, in Q4 2016, 63% of Internet connections in USA were above 10 Mb/s. The average connection speed in USA was 17.2 Mb/s. Average mobile speeds in USA were 5.1 Mb/s. Even mobile users who have access to fast mobile networks would still need to be concerned about bitrate if they are on a data plan with limits and the stream(s) they are watching does not have transcoding.

As bad as that may sound, especially when compared to South Korea or Singapore (or any other nation in the top 10 in any category), connections in much of the rest of the world are still further below those levels (most of the Asia Pacific region - including China and India - most of Europe, all of Africa, all of the Middle East, all of Central America, and all of South America). Russia's average Internet connection speed only clocks in at 11.6 Mb/s with 48% of their connections above 10 Mb/s. Germany's average average Internet connection speed is only 14.6 Mb/s with 50% of their connections above 10 Mb/s.

I think that the point that @Fenrir and @XeiZ were trying to make was simply that just because you and your audience do not experience an issue (e.g., buffering due to low/insufficient connection speeds between endpoints and/or lack of transcoding options) does not mean that the issue does not exist for others.

 

[Cryonic]

@Cryonic
Sorry, but respectfully, no, not "everybody has enough to watch a 10.000kbps stream".

First, yes, there are still streams/channels that do not have transcoding. That is becoming increasingly rare, but they do still exist at this time (I have personally verified this, and anyone else is free to do the same).

According to Akamai's Q4 2016 State of the Internet Connectivity Report, in Q4 2016, 63% of Internet connections in USA were above 10 Mb/s. The average connection speed in USA was 17.2 Mb/s. Average mobile speeds in USA were 5.1 Mb/s. Even mobile users who have access to fast mobile networks would still need to be concerned about bitrate if they are on a data plan with limits and the stream(s) they are watching does not have transcoding.

As bad as that may sound, especially when compared to South Korea or Singapore (or any other nation in the top 10 in any category), connections in much of the rest of the world are still further below those levels (most of the Asia Pacific region - including China and India - most of Europe, all of Africa, all of the Middle East, all of Central America, and all of South America). Russia's average Internet connection speed only clocks in at 11.6 Mb/s with 48% of their connections above 10 Mb/s. Germany's average average Internet connection speed is only 14.6 Mb/s with 50% of their connections above 10 Mb/s.

I think that the point that @Fenrir and @XeiZ were trying to make was simply that just because you and your audience do not experience an issue (e.g., buffering due to low/insufficient connection speeds between endpoints and/or lack of transcoding options) does not mean that the issue does not exist for others.

Maybe people with low bandwith dont watch streams often because they are actually aware of their crappy internet connection that cant handle realtime streaming?
Forget about the average speed, it is just like average data - somebody has everything, somebody has nothing, but on average both have enough. I personally sit on a 400mbit/s connection and expect a gigabit soon. But some people have 2mbit/s ADSL and there is no hope to change that in the next 2-3 years since there are no plans for that (and believe me Germany has a plan for everything that will be done somehow somewhere).
Russia - it is the same. Big city? 100mbit/s is fine with multiple ISPs offering that. Middle of nowhere? Forget internet.
And to your knowledge, most 3G and 4G plans in Russia and CIS are still unlimited, so people actually use them pretty hard for livestreaming and heavy content, in USA you would run dry in hours when you watch 4K videos on your phone :-)

 

[sneaky4oe]

I am cool with sendng up to 18 mbit/s to a single platform like youtube. It'll be hard to watch, but most people in Russia are able to watch twitch streams with around 10 mbit/s via tools like tardsplaya or vpn. People have the bandwidth, but lack good routing. If only amazon added a few twitch servers in Russia. Would be like no effort for them.

Also, I've tried 7-8 mbit stream today. Some people were really able to watch it on source and enjoy it. Nobody complained.