Question / Help Streaming a chat show using Zoom via OBS?

[HPV]

Hi folks, I'm a video cameraman who's had to rapidly pivot into live streaming due to the current climate. I've used OBS before for gaming, but not in depth. I'm very new to this and would be incredibly grateful for any guidance members here can provide.

A client has asked me to produce a weekly live stream show for them to restream.io (multi platforms) where we have an intro, branded background, lower thirds and contributors all connect simply via joining a Zoom call. They would like to be able to bring people on and off the stream when it's their turn to talk.

The equipment I have is: Macbook Pro 2017, Asus Zenbook Pro Duo i9, Blackmagic ATEM Television Studio HD, Elgato HD60S+. Need to stream and record at the same time.

Could anyone here give me any insight into the best workflow for this sort of job and any tips/tricks/things to look out for when attempting this? I'll be testing this rigorously before the first show next week - just waiting on some equipment to arrive.

Many thanks, really looking forward to hearing your thoughts

 

[FerretBomb]

Depending on which system is going to do the streaming, advise heading to the Mac Support section of the forums, this is the Windows Support subforum. Just click back up one branch in the navigation path just above the title of this thread, and it should be there. Assuming this as it was listed first.

 

[HPV]

Thanks Ferret,

I think I'll go for windows only actually, just listed the mac in case it ended up being a vital resource

 

[FerretBomb]

Shouldn't be a problem then. I'd recommend against using Zoom if at all possible; they have an absolutely horrific data collection policy that allows them to datamine every system on the call in-depth. It's a digital privacy nightmare. I'd point at Skype for Creators instead, which provides a separate NDI output for each person on the call (you'll need the obs-ndi plugin, and the NewTek NDI redistributable package for this).

We'd need more specific questions though.
restream.io (multi platforms) - No problem, OBS can stream to restream.io without issue.

where we have an intro - Have an Intro Scene, and swap to it. OBS is a scene-based program, with several transitions. I'd recommend grabbing the Transition Matrix Override plugin as well, allows you to set transitions for use when moving between each source/destination combo of scenes.

branded background - Image Source, or Media Source for video, or Browser Source for a live-generated browser-based background. Tons of options.

lower thirds - Trickier. Normally handled by a Browser Source and NodeCG in professional settings, but this pretty much requires a knowledgeable and in-depth coder. You can also use Studio Mode to set up lower thirds, and the Motion-Effect plugin to slide them in or out (there is no per-source transition in OBS at present, but you can fake it in the meantime. A little hacky)

They would like to be able to bring people on and off the stream when it's their turn to talk. - Have a different scene for each speaker/combo, set them up in Studio Mode, and transition to the new scene each time. If you need direct changes, have duplicated A/B versions of each scene (Single Full, Duo Split, Trio with inset, Trio with centered third, Quad split). This would come down to getting each of your scenes set up.

I'd advise spending the intervening time watching both Nerd or Die's OBS Tutorial series, as well as EposVox's OBS Master Class series. They're both a bit outdated, and I disagree with some points of EposVox's series, but they should be solid information to get you up to speed and to grips with using OBS in a production environment, how it works, et al.

To be clear, OBS is a switcher, compositor and renderer. There are a TON of plugins to do a TON of cool stuff with the right support applications. It has a steep learning curve. But it's also incredibly powerful.

 

[HPV]

Shouldn't be a problem then. I'd recommend against using Zoom if at all possible; they have an absolutely horrific data collection policy that allows them to datamine every system on the call in-depth. It's a digital privacy nightmare. I'd point at Skype for Creators instead, which provides a separate NDI output for each person on the call (you'll need the obs-ndi plugin, and the NewTek NDI redistributable package for this).

We'd need more specific questions though.
restream.io (multi platforms) - No problem, OBS can stream to restream.io without issue.

where we have an intro - Have an Intro Scene, and swap to it. OBS is a scene-based program, with several transitions. I'd recommend grabbing the Transition Matrix Override plugin as well, allows you to set transitions for use when moving between each source/destination combo of scenes.

branded background - Image Source, or Media Source for video, or Browser Source for a live-generated browser-based background. Tons of options.

lower thirds - Trickier. Normally handled by a Browser Source and NodeCG in professional settings, but this pretty much requires a knowledgeable and in-depth coder. You can also use Studio Mode to set up lower thirds, and the Motion-Effect plugin to slide them in or out (there is no per-source transition in OBS at present, but you can fake it in the meantime. A little hacky)

They would like to be able to bring people on and off the stream when it's their turn to talk. - Have a different scene for each speaker/combo, set them up in Studio Mode, and transition to the new scene each time. If you need direct changes, have duplicated A/B versions of each scene (Single Full, Duo Split, Trio with inset, Trio with centered third, Quad split). This would come down to getting each of your scenes set up.

I'd advise spending the intervening time watching both Nerd or Die's OBS Tutorial series, as well as EposVox's OBS Master Class series. They're both a bit outdated, and I disagree with some points of EposVox's series, but they should be solid information to get you up to speed and to grips with using OBS in a production environment, how it works, et al.

To be clear, OBS is a switcher, compositor and renderer. There are a TON of plugins to do a TON of cool stuff with the right support applications. It has a steep learning curve. But it's also incredibly powerful.

Ferrit, that's an incredibly helpful reply - thank you so much for this.

I've been researching meanwhile and found someone doing a similar thing with Zoom calls using Wirecast. Would I be wise to purchase this over using OBS?

I hear you about the security issues, alarming. With the Skype for creators, would they all be on a group call but I have a code for an individual stream of each camera? Sounds interesting. Zoom advertised a waiting room feature that looks cool. Wondering how it works for me wanting to silence people who aren't on air. I can mute their stream, but they would have to mute their mics individually if I wanted them to not be audible to the other participants in the call?

A bit nervous about lower thirds, I'll look into this now. Perhaps I can attach a name plate to each image that's ever present with much less fiddling required?

 

[FerretBomb]

Wirecast and vMix are powerful tools more designed for use in a traditional studio with a dedicated video technician. They can be limited in their own ways, and the real big draw is that their support chain is paid staff, rather than pure volunteers as with OBS.
I'm biased, but generally would say OBS can hold its own against them, aside from some niche top-end features like downstream keying. OBS can be more powerful in other ways too that they can't match.

NDI essentially lets you 'break out' each individual person on the call, their audio and video feed as an NDI source each. I don't use Skype myself so I don't know if there's a "waiting room" feature. You'd essentially have the active speaker's NDI feed active in the Program scene (in Studio mode), and set up the upcoming next speaker(s) in the Preview scene. Until you hit Transition, the speakers in the Preview scene should be inaudible on-air (assuming you are not capturing the default audio output source, and so getting the downmix from Skype included). They may be able to hear one another on Skype and respond to each other, which could be a bit confusing for viewers. That would come down to user management on the Skype end, if you can keep them separate there.

That's one way to do lower thirds, yes. For example, if I wanted to do them simply, I'd just use an Image Source as the plate background (above the camera source), and a Text Source on top of that to add any text for each plate. I'd make alterations to the text source in the Preview window before switching to the scene containing them.
For a bit more production value:
-Start on a scene with a fullscreen camera of the speaker. It also contains a non-visible plate image, and an non-visible text source.
-Set the plate and text source Visible in the Preview. Edit text as needed (also able to do this beforehand).
-Have the Transition type set to fade. Hit the Transition window. It will transition to itself, but with the plate and text visible, fading-in. Set both non-visible in the Preview window, and hit Transition again to fade out the lower third.
-You can now set the text Visible in the Preview again, make any changes to the text for the next speaker, then set it invisible again without transitioning, so it's ready to go.

 

[pillarsoffranch]

Actually, I've been doing this same thing for the last 6 months now. We use Zoom because its stupid simple for people to use and that helps pull guests from all over the US and Canada. CEO's hate a lot of tech setup so keeping it incredibly simple really helps. We use free version restream to get to 6 platforms and also embed the Youtube stream in a couple of websites. We also tie in Blogtalkradio so we have a live call in number and also turn the audio into a podcast that hits about 25+ podcast directories. If you want to talk more let me know.

 

[johnaustin1995]

Actually, I've been doing this same thing for the last 6 months now. We use Zoom because its stupid simple for people to use and that helps pull guests from all over the US and Canada. CEO's hate a lot of tech setup so keeping it incredibly simple really helps. We use free version restream to get to 6 platforms and also embed the Youtube stream in a couple of websites. We also tie in Blogtalkradio so we have a live call in number and also turn the audio into a podcast that hits about 25+ podcast directories. If you want to talk more let me know.

How do you bring in each Zoom participant individually like recommended using the Skype NDI plugin above? I would prefer to use Zoom since my client's participants are already familiar with that, but I can't figure out a simple and easy way to queue and bring in individual participants.

 

[Red-Rob]

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I considered using Zoom into OBS for the same purpose as you. I like the "unlimited" users of Zoom and low bandwidth requirements for the broadcaster. Ideally, there would be a way for the broadcaster to have all the speakers on "standby" in the zoom call, then hand-pick which of them (e.g. 5 people) to have visible on the broadcaster's 2nd break-out display. In OBS we'd have it capture that display as a source, and if we wanted could mask each of those speaker sub-windows and setup as their own sources. This is all theoretical to me -- haven't tried it. Would love to see if @pillarsoffranch got that working similarly :)

 

[Mamoulian]

I'm trying to do this too and would appreciate more info.

A good option would be to use obs.ninja, you get separate URLs to each participant that you can feed into the browser source and it works quite well for a low number of people, but my Zoom participants aren't tech-savvy and won't handle switching out mid-call and I have a helper to move people into Zoom breakout rooms.
Current plan is to have just the OBS Virtual Cam and the current guest in a Zoom breakout room and window capture just them - disable self view, keep gallery view, maximise (but not fullscreen) the window and then set the crop in OBS. This should keep the sizing static across different guests.

I'm stuck with the sound though, on Windows (I think Linux may be better for this) you can't capture a window's sound and I don't want to broadcast my general desktop sound as anything could happen. I'm going to try one of the virtual audio driver apps to try and dedicate a sink to Zoom. Not sure if I can tie that to the window capture source in OBS but failing that there is a plugin that lets you assign mixer items to scenes.
But then it gets a bit echo-tastic because the host (who is on obs.ninja the entire time) and guest need to hear each other, so I need to feed the stream preview into Zoom which means everyone will hear themselves with a slight delay in their headphones. I don't know what I can do about that as there's only one stream output and there are no audio output controls on the browser source (for obs.ninja). I may make a separate post about this.

 

[Mamoulian]

Can confirm the above works ok. I needed the helper (co-host) to move people in and out of the 'broadcasting room' breakout room and talk some of them through it, they have to accept a prompt. We had a green room too to get them ready.

I had to keep Zoom to one guest at a time with the host on another service, I used obs.ninja or Skype would work too with NDI. If you could run the Zoom client app twice that would work too (with breakout room for just host+VirtualCam) but i don't know if that's possible.

Sound without anyone hearing themselves looped back was quite complicated but worked. I'll update the thread I made about that.

 

[pillarsoffranch]

Hi sorry for the silence. Currently, we've starting putting the guests in the Zoom "waiting room" and bringing them on and off as needed. Also, we've been running OBS at 720p and that has really reduced cpu %, rendering delays and Zoom display video. The virtual camera at 720p is much clearer than it was at 1080p. Most likely due to the fact that Zoom only "broadcasts" at 720p. The nice thing is that the guests can see via the virtual camera what is being broadcasts out live.

I've also taken myself out of the main Zoom video and come back on the screen via a local camera with a green screen

I've started testing using the Zoom Facebook/YouTube live feature to add a Facebook group on broadcast list in addition to the personal facebook profile on restream.io

I've done some very early tests of obs.ninja with the co-host of a new show in development, The Franchise Woman and hope I can use the add camera feature as a way to bring in remote cohosts or "reporters" to the show video but still use the zoom for audio and guest videos.

Also, trying to learn about how to make individual graphics swirl down a wormhole. I've got a background video that does it but the 5 guest graphics are static on the screen. If anyone has any thoughts please let me know...I only add it here because others have referenced what we are doing.

 

[Dihelson]

I tested wirecast, vMix and some others. I run a live TV News channel only using OBS. It was somewhat hard to learn every aspect of the broadcast: Build my backgrounds, lower thirds, bugs, associate news pack with shortcuts to launch live, but you can see I'm really learning the "beast", and I can say that probably most of the things these very expensive softwares do, I can do with OBS. See the videos I've made with OBS on my TV channel:

Avião cai no Interior do Ceará - Veja vídeo !

Avião cai no Interior do Ceará - Veja vídeo ! Três médicos e um piloto morreram na queda de um avião de pequeno porte no município de São Benedito, a 317 qui...

youtu.be

 

[Rod Auric]

I found these two posts that discuss NDI via Zoom and Skype for this post's use case, confirming and adding depth to what has been said eloquently above.

This first link is from the Zoom developers forum where a zoom user is asking for NDI per source to be added to Zoom. TLDR Response from Zoom: On May 4, 2020 - 1) We currently do not have this feature. We are working to provide this in the future. Then On Aug 4 - 2) I am switching this thread to a feature request.

Then a Microsoft Webdev App Consultant posts here "How to host a live streaming with multiple participants using OBS Studio and Skype". He talks about how to set up Skype to use NDI and solves the audio problem neatly in OBS Advanced Audio settings.