Solved the Abysmal Bitrate Problem

[cptnoremac]

I've been struggling with this for years now and I've seen a lot of other people complain about it without a satisfactory solution, so I thought it might help someone out there to share what I've found.

The problem
I'm paying for 500 Mbps download / 50 Mbps upload cable internet, though my speed tests show about 600 and 60. So I set my target bitrate to 50 Mbps and use NVENVC AV1 for the encoder and stream to YouTube. My PC has an RTX-4080, 32 gigs of RAM, and a Ryzen 7 5800x, so I was pretty sure my hardware wouldn't be limiting me just playing something like Dark Souls Remastered. For a while, maybe even hours, it streams just fine. Then suddenly it plummets all the way down to 7 (from the 50 I was getting) and stays there. My stream starts buffering like crazy and my viewers (hypothetical) get bored and leave.

I tried three different modems and routers, I've hardwired my PC to the router, I've had the cable between the outside box and my modem replaced, and I've had three Cox technicians out here who swear everything is fine on their end. And yet the problem persists.

The solution
This morning I was able to catch it tanking down to around 7 again during a private test stream. Just for the hell of it, I tried connecting to another server with my VPN (NordVPN, for the record) and like magic, it immediately jumped right back up to 50. I disconnected, back to 7. Connected, back to 50. It was consistent. To me this pretty much confirms that my ISP (Cox) is throttling RTMP traffic. I can't think of another explanation for this behavior. So if you're having this problem and nothing else is working (I actually almost upgraded to Windows 11 out of desperation), give a VPN a try. Or if you don't have one, I heard you could try something like restream.io or some other way to mask what you're doing from your ISP.

This wouldn't specifically be a Windows problem, but I didn't find a sub forum for general OBS troubleshooting.

Bonus tip
Something else I discovered while struggling through all this crap is if you have NordVPN and you're using their Threat Protection Pro, turn off advanced browsing protection and ad and tracker blocker. Both of those consistently tanked my upload speed as well.

I hope this saves someone all the headache I had to go through to learn this. Good luck, and don't support Cox.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

I'm paying for 500 Mbps download / 50 Mbps upload cable internet, though my speed tests show about 600 and 60. So I set my target bitrate to 50 Mbps and use NVENVC AV1 for the encoder and stream to YouTube.

And is your computer the ONLY network client device on your entire LAN... no smart devices, mobile devices on WiFi, etc? if not, then planning to livestream that close to a flexible (not static) upload bandwidth limit is really a bad idea, and indicates a lack of networking understanding

My PC has an RTX-4080, 32 gigs of RAM, and a Ryzen 7 5800x, so I was pretty sure my hardware wouldn't be limiting me just playing something like Dark Souls Remastered.

Uh, maybe, maybe not... LOTS of things happen on a user PC that can interfere... really, LOTS... too long a list to type here.
Oh, and if using WiFi (below), neighbor WiFi devices or access point can interfere is what appears to be random manner (isn't but you need right tools to monitor and troubleshoot such)

I tried three different modems and routers, I've hardwired my PC to the router,

wait, you were using WiFi? your joking right? you want consistent (jitter and latency), reliable traffic and you aren't using Ethernet?
If using WiFi, what are you using for real-time WiFi monitoring? if like most, you aren't... so you can't attribute root cause... 'cuz you really have no idea.. or maybe, you just didn't mention some important details?
And once using cabled Ethernet (for entire data path to cable modem), that eliminates 1 possible problem, but leaves ALL of the rest

I've had the cable between the outside box and my modem replaced, and I've had three Cox technicians out here who swear everything is fine on their end. And yet the problem persists.

You have a consumer ISP circuit, you need to understand what that means (which has little to do with what you want it to be). It is entirely possible that the circuit is fine, and possibly throttling/bandwidth contention upstream of Cox.

The solution
This morning I was able to catch it tanking down to around 7 again during a private test stream. Just for the hell of it, I tried connecting to another server with my VPN (NordVPN, for the record) and like magic, it immediately jumped right back up to 50. I disconnected, back to 7. Connected, back to 50. It was consistent. To me this pretty much confirms that my ISP (Cox) is throttling RTMP traffic. I can't think of another explanation for this behavior. So if you're having this problem and nothing else is working (I actually almost upgraded to Windows 11 out of desperation), give a VPN a try. Or if you don't have one, I heard you could try something like restream.io or some other way to mask what you're doing from your ISP.

Using a VPN completely changes the traffic and, most likely, impacts the Public Peering points your traffic routes through.
And that changes what your PC and router's security software and settings see (and their response, if any ... ex Killer Networks 'optimizations' well-documented screwing up of certain streaming traffic)
I'm no fan of Cox Internet, but have been a customer of theirs (starting with @Home) for over 25 years... recent issues in my area have only really been Cox DNS server timeouts... (which most people don't know how to identify, thinking circuit is down... and unfortunately Cox Support worthless when that is the problem). So, I'm all for blaming Cox for what they do wrong... but you'd need to do a LOT better (thorough) troubleshooting to identify Cox themselves as the issue (vs what you posted) in this case.

 

[cptnoremac]

Wow, looks like we have a Cox employee here. I certainly didn't expect a reply this irrationally hostile and nonsensical, especially when I'm just trying to be helpful.

And is your computer the ONLY network client device on your entire LAN... no smart devices, mobile devices on WiFi, etc? if not, then planning to livestream that close to a flexible (not static) upload bandwidth limit is really a bad idea, and indicates a lack of networking understanding

So you're saying every good streamer out there has a dedicated network JUST for their PC? You really think my smartphone occasionally getting push notifications is going to have any noticeable effect on a 50 Mbps stream? Sounds like you're the one with a serious lack of bandwidth understanding.

Uh, maybe, maybe not... LOTS of things happen on a user PC that can interfere... really, LOTS... too long a list to type here.
Oh, and if using WiFi (below), neighbor WiFi devices or access point can interfere is what appears to be random manner (isn't but you need right tools to monitor and troubleshoot such)

First of all, don't start with "uh" unless you're REALLY sure you're right about something, because if there's anything worse than a smug asshole, it's a smug asshole who's wrong. Secondly, I'm saying that my PC is powerful enough that my GPU or CPU aren't limitations, not that there's nothing at all on my PC that can be causing the problem. And in this case, it turns out it was, in fact, not my PC.

wait, you were using WiFi? your joking right? you want consistent (jitter and latency), reliable traffic and you aren't using Ethernet?
If using WiFi, what are you using for real-time WiFi monitoring? if like most, you aren't... so you can't attribute root cause... 'cuz you really have no idea.. or maybe, you just didn't mention some important details?
And once using cabled Ethernet (for entire data path to cable modem), that eliminates 1 possible problem, but leaves ALL of the rest

I said it IS hardwired. And even on WiFi, I wouldn't expect the same performance as wired, but I would NOT accept that it can sometimes go from holding a solid 50 to dropping to 7 or less. If that happens to you on WiFi and you just throw up your arms and go, "Welp, that's WiFi for ya!" then you deserve the swindling you're getting.

Using a VPN completely changes the traffic and, most likely, impacts the Public Peering points your traffic routes through.

Half-true but irrelevant. If this were a routing issue, the severe speed drop wouldn't be so predictable and repeatable.

I'm no fan of Cox Internet, but have been a customer of theirs (starting with @Home) for over 25 years... recent issues in my area have only really been Cox DNS server timeouts... (which most people don't know how to identify, thinking circuit is down... and unfortunately Cox Support worthless when that is the problem). So, I'm all for blaming Cox for what they do wrong... but you'd need to do a LOT better (thorough) troubleshooting to identify Cox themselves as the issue (vs what you posted) in this case.

Ah, now I see. You've gone defensive because you think this is primarily a post about Cox and for whatever reason you take that personally. The main point is, a VPN solved it, consistently. My hope is that this information helps someone. I also included my (what I think is inevitable) conclusion that the ISP throttling me is the reason, but that's a side point. So calm the hell down.

 

[AaronD]

I've seen Lawrence for a long time in these forums (he and I are both Active Members with thousands of posts). He really does know what he's talking about. Meanwhile, you just got here.

Tech people can be a bit salty at times, for a variety of reasons, but a common thread is being fed up with people who insist they know more than their arguments clearly show. That's how you appear so far. Maybe take a step back, look through the salt, and learn from an expert.

 

[cptnoremac]

Don't start with the "I have seniority" crap on me. He comes across as a 12-year-old trying to sound smart. I don't care if you have 20 million posts on the OBS forums; if you say something that makes no sense to someone with a brain, you have to be prepared to meet some resistance.

Instead of vaguely saying, "He's right and you're wrong," how about you point to ONE thing he said that was actually justified? Having trouble picking one? Okay, how about the claim that having a mobile device on the same network would explain a sudden drop from 50 Mbps upload to under 7? Let's really break down how that makes sense, shall we? Go ahead. I'll wait.

I had a plumber try to tell me the reason one half of my split level house was stopped up and the other wasn't is because my downstairs sink was actually draining out of my UPSTAIRS sink, so it was really a full house blockage and I needed to spend thousands of dollars breaking up my porch to get to the blockage, rather than just blasting out the pipes in the middle of the house where I claimed it must be. When I said that made no sense, he tried to wave me away by saying he's been doing this for 30 years. Needless to say I told him to get bent. Turns out I was right and it just needed a jet blast down the pipes for almost nothing. And I'm a computer engineer, not a plumber. So no, I'm not going to bow down to some random guy who's proud of himself for being on a forum for several years.

 

[PaiSand]

Well, using a VPN makes no sense to get a reliable internet connection.
That ISP is known for the bad network it has for streaming. Is not the only one.
You're assuming things that aren't said. You're frustrated by the issues you're facing. Don't get it against someone else. And please don't start a flame war.

Most ISPs changed from giving a direct connection to users (with a fixed bandwidth for each one) to a pool of shared connections because not everyone uses all the available bandwidth, making them save money. This is why you see congestion at some hours of the day and not in others. The use of a VPN don't change this, but it do help if the ISP have an issue (bad configured routers, DNS servers, etc.) or restrictions to access certain places. Yes, you have a blockage but can't be fixed by just blasting the pipe, you'll end up on the same place in no time.
Based on the way you phrased it anyone else may assume you where using Wi-Fi connection up until you tested a wired connection. I do understand it like this too.

The solution is to find a better ISP. I know in the U.S. most of the time it's impossible to have other ISP due to monopoly and the lack of interest from other companies to pay what the city ask them to get in there. The solution is to do what the plumber told you, all new pipes.

 

[cptnoremac]

Well, using a VPN makes no sense to get a reliable internet connection.
That ISP is known for the bad network it has for streaming. Is not the only one.

Did you read the part about how it DOES fix my problem? I feel like that was kind of an important part of my original post. And like I said, it does explain it if they're specifically throttling certain types of traffic, because the VPN masks that from them so they can't tell the difference between an upload and a stream. They just see encrypted data packets going through. If you can think of another explanation, be my guest. The reason why wasn't really the point of the post.

You're assuming things that aren't said. You're frustrated by the issues you're facing. Don't get it against someone else. And please don't start a flame war.

Don't do that. I made a post sharing a solution that worked for me to a problem many people have described and you guys jumped all over me, and now you're trying to gaslight me into thinking I'm the crazy one here.

Most ISPs changed from giving a direct connection to users (with a fixed bandwidth for each one) to a pool of shared connections because not everyone uses all the available bandwidth, making them save money. This is why you see congestion at some hours of the day and not in others.

It's obviously not congestion, because a VPN wouldn't fix that (which, again, it absolutely does, consistently).

This is the second time I've seen DNS servers brought up. I'm admittedly no networking specialist, but my understanding is that the DNS server simply resolves a domain to an IP address and then it has no impact on my connection after that point. Please explain to me how a problem with the DNS server could possibly explain starting a stream and having my upload bitrate tank.

I certainly would find a better ISP if there were any available. There's a local co-op offering fiber internet around here, but their coverage map somehow hits everywhere around me except my neighborhood.

And if I could just ask what may be a stupid question: What the hell is the actual problem here? I posted a solution that works for me to a common problem. Imagine in the future when someone googles this problem and arrives at this post. What do you think is more useful to them: someone saying, "Hey, try a VPN; it worked for me," or the angry mob replying with all the things I COULD have been doing wrong that are not explained by a VPN consistently and repeatably fixing it?

 

[PaiSand]

Don't do that. I made a post sharing a solution that worked for me to a problem many people have described and you guys jumped all over me, and now you're trying to gaslight me into thinking I'm the crazy one here.

Exactly. You posted a solution that worked for you, just after I answered to a different person that had issues for using the same VPN software. In that moment I simple ignored it and keep watching Stargate SG-1.
That means it's not a solution, it's a not so reliable patch. No one jumped all over you. You're giving bad intentions to written words where there's no bad intentions. One person answer (perhaps not in the best way but it happens to all of us from time to time) and then you take it too personal. Someone else tried to calm down the situation and explain a little more, but you still felt it as a personal attack on you.

In this forum you are welcome to answer to issues people have, case by case, so help them fix an issue if possible. For guides and how-to's there's another forum specifically meant for this. Writing about a solution that only works for you, and I already said other person have issues with it, is not the way for helping.
Many times others in this forum answer after me giving their view on a particular issue, even if contradicts what I wrote. I don't take it personal, I may be wrong and can learn from it. Not take it personal, and accept the other person may have a bad day and overreact but the intention is good at the end.

From my perspective, almost all the people coming here with issues that also use a VPN, and mostly use that VPN, one of the issue causing them problems is the VPN itself. Removing / bypassing it solves the problem.

Again, no one is angry, no one goes in a mob. Just take a step back, keep calm, read again, answer only if you understand no one is against you but trying to clarify an advice that isn't the best.

In a network there's a lot of hardware and software that carries the traffic. Only one badly configured causes lots of troubles. The most common problem among many ISPs is not routing correctly the RTMP protocol. They configure the DNS HTTP IMAP POP3 SMTP, with and without SSL, all protocols needed for a person to access the Internet and browse it. That's all. Anything else most likely isn't configured as it's not needed. Now, with streaming (RTMP protocol), it's needed, but bad habits are difficult to change. In my ISP they understood the need for this, and made the corrections on almost all their network. But not all. I can see people with issues I don't have since 15 years ago.
If you add to this all the things that happens in your side, on the modem, router, network cable, network adapter controller, the network adapter itself, the motherboard, BIOS, bloatware from the OS, bloatware from the motherboard vendor, bad apps that actually causes issues on the network instead on making it better, etc.-

 

[cptnoremac]

You're not making any sense. Just because using a VPN was a problem for someone else doesn't invalidate my solution for my problem. If your ISP is throttling RTMP traffic, using a VPN is a valid workaround to that problem. This problem was happening with me on multiple PCs, multiple routers, and multiple modems. The only commonality is the ISP. Instead of just dumping a wall of text on me, how about you focus on that one point and tell me why I'm wrong. And then, tell me why using the VPN fixes the issue for me. And then tell me why that can't POSSIBLY be useful advice for ANYONE else on the entire internet.

After that, maybe explain to me why a post providing a possible solution to a problem warrants someone calling my network understanding into question (before proceeding to inexplicably bring up DNS server timeouts?) and pointing out all the things it could be. This isn't a request for a solution to a problem. This IS the solution. The replies make no sense at all. And you're trying to tell me it's all in my head?

I seriously don't understand what's wrong with you people.

 

[PaiSand]

That's what you're not seeing and makes all the sense. Is not a solution, is just a patch. Is working for you but not for anyone else I saw in this forum using that particular VPN program. It may be useful for someone, but mostly not anyone else.

Using your example. You decided to tell the plumber to only blasting out the pipes and that was a solution for you. The reality is that after some time the pipe will be clogged again, in another section of it. You'll going to do the same, and after some time the pipe will be clogged again. The solution is change the pipes. You want the easy patch that isn't a solution. It works? For you, yes. It solves the problem? No.

People in this forum knows I don't like to write much. I stick to the point and say nothing else. In this case it is necessary to expatiate a little more so that it is understood and there is no confusion. And now, back to my normal programming.

 

[cptnoremac]

You seem to be misunderstanding the point of my analogy. The pipes don't represent anything in this scenario. My point was I don't necessarily respect an "expert" who tries to bully you into submission with "Trust me. I've been doing this a long time and I know what I'm talking about." If what he says makes no sense, it doesn't matter how many degrees he has.

And no, there's nothing wrong with my pipes. That was years ago and there hasn't been another issue. This house was built in 1969 and that's the only time that's happened. I'm not replacing my damn pipes.

So back to the issue, it sounds like what you're saying now (not necessarily what you were saying before or what anyone else is saying) is that I'm being reprimanded for posting a solution to one possible problem that might not solve it for other people. Really? Point me to a problem like this that DOES have one single solution. This is how troubleshooting works: You find other people with your problem and you try their solutions until you find one that works for you. Obviously this behavior could have many explanations, and what I've offered people is another thing they can try that they didn't have before (I certainly couldn't find anyone else suggesting this). What you're offering them is exactly nothing.

Again, I'm utterly baffled by this backlash.

 

[cptnoremac]

You're giving bad intentions to written words where there's no bad intentions. One person answer (perhaps not in the best way but it happens to all of us from time to time) and then you take it too personal.

I actually want to break down what you said a little more, because this really doesn't sit right. You make it sound like he's just trying to be helpful and I'm being a paranoid little weirdo who can't handle contradiction. Let's look a little closer, shall we?

wait, you were using WiFi? your joking right? you want consistent (jitter and latency), reliable traffic and you aren't using Ethernet?
If using WiFi, what are you using for real-time WiFi monitoring? if like most, you aren't... so you can't attribute root cause... 'cuz you really have no idea.. or maybe, you just didn't mention some important details?

Setting aside the insultingly condescending tone in this and every other part of his reply, how is this helpful? I wasn't asking for help in troubleshooting an issue; I was posting a possible solution to an issue. So in what universe is it helpful or even rational to read my post, infer that I must have at one point tried streaming on WiFi, and then dedicate an entire paragraph to explaining why that was stupid? Again, we're not at the troubleshooting stage here. I was simply sharing some background so future readers could identify that their problem is similar to mine. And even before I solved it, I was already not on WiFi and still having the problem, so even three days ago this would have been pointless. As it is, it's TWO STEPS away from being anything approaching useful. And as a side note (by which I mean don't you dare latch onto this as something to argue against and ignore the far more important point above), I still maintain that it's ridiculous to claim that using WiFi instead of Ethernet could explain the very severe and sudden drop in upload speed that immediately and consistently works great again on a VPN.

Someone else tried to calm down the situation and explain a little more, but you still felt it as a personal attack on you.

Do you HONESTLY feel this guy was trying to calm the situation down OR explain anything?

I've seen Lawrence for a long time in these forums (he and I are both Active Members with thousands of posts). He really does know what he's talking about. Meanwhile, you just got here.

Tech people can be a bit salty at times, for a variety of reasons, but a common thread is being fed up with people who insist they know more than their arguments clearly show. That's how you appear so far. Maybe take a step back, look through the salt, and learn from an expert.

Seriously, point to one part of that reply that's calming or explanatory. It's pretty short already, but let me summarize it for you: "How dare you talk back to our establishment? You're the new guy! Your post shows that you know nothing. Stop being salty." Be completely honest with yourself and ask if your summary of his "contribution" is more accurate than mine.

I answered to a different person that had issues for using the same VPN software

One last thing, I wanted to address this a bit more too. You're claiming that me saying a VPN solves one potential cause of this problem is bad because for others it actually causes the same problem. Do you need me to explain why that's bad logic? It's like if I suggested to someone they try eating food so they feel better, and you replied that you just helped someone whose condition was CAUSED by eating food because he got food poisoning from it.

If someone comes here with bad upload speeds and they've never tried streaming without being on the VPN, yes, OBVIOUSLY try turning it off first. But if like me (many, many people) you had this problem while NOT being on a VPN because you assumed it could only slow you down further, you should absolutely try a VPN (even if simply for diagnostic purposes). If it works, great. If not, move on and try something else. Is it a patch? Maybe, but what's the alternative if there are no other valid ISPs in your neighborhood? Start your own? What's the "replace the pipes" solution to your ISP throttling you, in your opinion? I'm dying to know.

 

[gmoney0505]

None of the suggestions worked for me. Ran into random post from 3 yrs ago that said try YouTube HLS. When you go to settings go to stream and in the service options choose YouTube HLS. This the only that that worked for me out of months of trying to fix this

 

[PaiSand]

None of the suggestions worked for me. Ran into random post from 3 yrs ago that said try YouTube HLS. When you go to settings go to stream and in the service options choose YouTube HLS. This the only that that worked for me out of months of trying to fix this

The only solution for you is using HLS because your ISP is somehow degrading the RTMP protocol.
Unfortunately, most streaming services only use RTMP protocol for their streaming services, so changing to HLS isn't a solution.

 

[dogar]

I've been struggling with this for years now and I've seen a lot of other people complain about it without a satisfactory solution, so I thought it might help someone out there to share what I've found.

The problem
I'm paying for 500 Mbps download / 50 Mbps upload cable internet, though my speed tests show about 600 and 60. So I set my target bitrate to 50 Mbps and use NVENVC AV1 for the encoder and stream to YouTube. My PC has an RTX-4080, 32 gigs of RAM, and a Ryzen 7 5800x, so I was pretty sure my hardware wouldn't be limiting me just playing something like Dark Souls Remastered. For a while, maybe even hours, it streams just fine. Then suddenly it plummets all the way down to 7 (from the 50 I was getting) and stays there. My stream starts buffering like crazy and my viewers (hypothetical) get bored and leave.

I tried three different modems and routers, I've hardwired my PC to the router, I've had the cable between the outside box and my modem replaced, and I've had three Cox technicians out here who swear everything is fine on their end. And yet the problem persists.

The solution
This morning I was able to catch it tanking down to around 7 again during a private test stream. Just for the hell of it, I tried connecting to another server with my VPN (NordVPN, for the record) and like magic, it immediately jumped right back up to 50. I disconnected, back to 7. Connected, back to 50. It was consistent. To me this pretty much confirms that my ISP (Cox) is throttling RTMP traffic. I can't think of another explanation for this behavior. So if you're having this problem and nothing else is working (I actually almost upgraded to Windows 11 out of desperation), give a VPN a try. Or if you don't have one, I heard you could try something like restream.io or some other way to mask what you're doing from your ISP.

This wouldn't specifically be a Windows problem, but I didn't find a sub forum for general OBS troubleshooting.

Bonus tip
Something else I discovered while struggling through all this crap is if you have NordVPN and you're using their Threat Protection Pro, turn off advanced browsing protection and ad and tracker blocker. Both of those consistently tanked my upload speed as well.

I hope this saves someone all the headache I had to go through to learn this. Good luck, and don't support Cox.

Turns out you were right. It was my ISP all this time throttling my connection everytime it detected an RTMP protocol. Used Nord and tested a few streams and everything is fine now. Thank you this worked out for me aswell. And also from these replies I can't believe you got drilled for actually sharing something that happened to work out for you.