PTZ Optics NDI camera via IP

cdrobsonjr

New Member
In your quick guide it only seems to mention cameras that use some kind of video capture card as a source. PTZ Optics cameras are capable of sending video via IP Ethernet connection. Will OBS accommodate this camera via Ethernet IP hook up via the computer's network connection or does there still need to be some kind of capture device hardware attached to the PC?
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Realize OBS is free open-source software. So there is no formal support staff. Most folks here are users and volunteers.
With that said, there are many ways to get video input to OBS
A video capture device is typically required for a non-IP signal, for example, HDMI or SDI. USB cameras (which PTZOptics and others sell) can be directly connected to OBS PC.
For Ethernet/IP network based cameras, you don't need a capture device hardware (other than network interface connection ie LAN or WiFI port/connection). What you need for network-based video signal is software running on the computer to receive and decode the incoming video signal (ie, what protocol is used). Windows 10, from what I recall, can natively receive a RTSP signal, as long as no password is required (just silly, actually... basically worthless). So, what you are looking at is a driver that can process the incoming video feed. Some IP security cameras use cheap, low-performing/ high-latency chips, and use RTSP to send video over IP. With a decent camera, and a fair amount of hoop-jumping on your part, one can get decent performance using RTSP in OBS [I've read about others doing, so, I have not]. There is different software options to receiving a RTSP, with varying stability, performance, maturity, options, etc
The industry standard for low-latency video over IP is largely NDI. PTZOptics and others (Panasonic, Sony, Canon, etc) all have NDI enabled cameras (usually PTZ). I am a user of a Panasonic NDI PTZ camera. With NDI, there is an old, apparently no longer supported OBS plugin(?), and then the more common approach is via use of the free NDI Tools from NDI's author NewTek. With the Panasonic, they provide a VirtualUSB driver that takes the NDI video feed and makes it appear as a locally connected USB camera (to any Windows App that can use a camera, including OBS). Beware mixing camera video signal technology, as the varying latency will make audio/video sync a headache (and may well cost more than simply buying the same camera type). Low-latency can be helpful in avoiding audio delay setups to match video signal.
if you can afford it, and camera placement flexibility is desired, as well as single cable for power (PoE), control, and video feed, especially if longer cable run desired, then NDI is a nice-to-use approach. The Pro & Con is that OBS can then see each NDI camera input. That is a con as computer has to decode each signal, vs using a video switcher where only a single video feed goes to PC. So... it depends on compute power available, and your use case

I hope this is the type of input you were looking for
 

cdrobsonjr

New Member
Realize OBS is free open-source software. So there is no formal support staff. Most folks here are users and volunteers.
With that said, there are many ways to get video input to OBS
A video capture device is typically required for a non-IP signal, for example, HDMI or SDI. USB cameras (which PTZOptics and others sell) can be directly connected to OBS PC.
For Ethernet/IP network based cameras, you don't need a capture device hardware (other than network interface connection ie LAN or WiFI port/connection). What you need for network-based video signal is software running on the computer to receive and decode the incoming video signal (ie, what protocol is used). Windows 10, from what I recall, can natively receive a RTSP signal, as long as no password is required (just silly, actually... basically worthless). So, what you are looking at is a driver that can process the incoming video feed. Some IP security cameras use cheap, low-performing/ high-latency chips, and use RTSP to send video over IP. With a decent camera, and a fair amount of hoop-jumping on your part, one can get decent performance using RTSP in OBS [I've read about others doing, so, I have not]. There is different software options to receiving a RTSP, with varying stability, performance, maturity, options, etc
The industry standard for low-latency video over IP is largely NDI. PTZOptics and others (Panasonic, Sony, Canon, etc) all have NDI enabled cameras (usually PTZ). I am a user of a Panasonic NDI PTZ camera. With NDI, there is an old, apparently no longer supported OBS plugin(?), and then the more common approach is via use of the free NDI Tools from NDI's author NewTek. With the Panasonic, they provide a VirtualUSB driver that takes the NDI video feed and makes it appear as a locally connected USB camera (to any Windows App that can use a camera, including OBS). Beware mixing camera video signal technology, as the varying latency will make audio/video sync a headache (and may well cost more than simply buying the same camera type). Low-latency can be helpful in avoiding audio delay setups to match video signal.
if you can afford it, and camera placement flexibility is desired, as well as single cable for power (PoE), control, and video feed, especially if longer cable run desired, then NDI is a nice-to-use approach. The Pro & Con is that OBS can then see each NDI camera input. That is a con as computer has to decode each signal, vs using a video switcher where only a single video feed goes to PC. So... it depends on compute power available, and your use case

I hope this is the type of input you were looking for
Sounds like your setup is way more elaborate than what we plan or need. We are seeking to replace the use of a cellphone with a camera with enough zoom to be mounted at the back wall of room. So looking for the least possible investment. (Really small church and budget). All sound is done and plan to feed video mix from aux output of sound mixer. I understand from PTZ Optics that the camera has an audio input jack. Thinking of injecting audio feed there. Not planning on doing much if any production. Just set zoom on pulpit and broadcast initially only to Facebook - that's what we've been using with cellphone.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Actually, my setup isn't that elaborate, I'm just an IT professional and our church wanted future add-on capabilities
Mixing a USB camera and then later a 2nd camera (NDI, SDI, whatever) will cause a significant (probably show-stopping) problems in a low-budget livestream setup (due to video signal sync issues).

So least cost option now would be a USB camera, directly connected to PC. if there is no expectation of going to 2nd camera, or ok with replacing entire setup if adding 2nd camera, that would be my suggestion (keeping it simple). The downside to USB connection is cable length considerations (restrictions), so camera and OBS PC within a few feet of each other [beware those who claim they can use long USB cables. sometimes you can, sometimes you can't].
Yes, you can plug audio into camera, but why bother? You have the same gain adjustment adapter and TRRS cable required, and then you lose some flexibility (i think) in audio processing, example latency delay??... not sure. But same TRRS cable can plug into OBS PC and just use it vs extra routing hop thru camera which might help, but just as easily might makes things more complicated. So, .... just don't assume plugging audio into camera... maybe, but test
As for camera, a no-name knock-off NDI PTZ camera is about US$1K at the moment, while comparable Panasonic, Sony, Canon, PTZOptics are around US$2K. For me, the Panasonic was cheaper, immediately available, and had better optics and motor (quieter, diagonal movement, etc) than PTZ Optics, so no brainer. When I asked local resellers of both Panasonic and Sony PTZ cameras, what a House of Worship would get by spending more for the Sony, I was told 'nothing'. But that was 16 months ago. Another option might be to get a ePTZ camera (ie no physical pan/tilt/zoom function, rather it is a 4K camera that can electronically display a different portions of the image, and electronically zoom in) which *might* be cheaper. just food for thought/investigation
There are much cheaper options than PTZOptics, though in part you get what you pay for, so depends on image quality expectation you have. I have no personal experience with the cheap 30fps security camera type setups. In part whether such would work for you depends on the lighting you have (cheaper optics need more light)

And don't under-estimate computational power required for real-time video encoding. Cellphones have a dedicated chip and software to do it; PC's don't necessarily have such things. And going super low-budget (under-powered) on PC means you'll spend time trying to optimize OS and OBS, vs focusing on presentation/community
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
@cyclemat, I 'm aware. I'm actually using an active 50ft USB3 cable, but NOT for video. By plugging local end into monitor (ie powered USB hub), I avoided needing a separate dedicated power supply for the USB cable (though it has the option for one). Things get complicated real quick as to whether such would work or not. And one has to be aware of electrical interference, cable routing, etc. In the typical House of Worship, somewhat trained, probably not technical, volunteers, and wanting a reliable setup, a long USB cable is a risk.

My Presonus ART12 USB has USB digital audio output, BUT, getting that into OBS isn't simple. Presonus's Studio One doesn't (and other similar DAWs/digital audio workstation also often don't) enable direct audio output to Windows Audio Subsystem. So there are some technical hurdles, depending on what one is trying to do. In my case it is likely a virtual loopback adapter or something like the Reaper Reastream audio VST plugin that will be required to enable my control of individual mics on the OBS PC (not just overall volume/gain level). And then, having set that up, now if the OBS operator is going to make audio adjustments mid-service (which is what I'd like to do), that does make the OBS operator job more complex/harder (refer back to minimally trained volunteers). doable... but there are Pro's & Con's to each approach
 

cdrobsonjr

New Member
Actually, my setup isn't that elaborate, I'm just an IT professional and our church wanted future add-on capabilities
Mixing a USB camera and then later a 2nd camera (NDI, SDI, whatever) will cause a significant (probably show-stopping) problems in a low-budget livestream setup (due to video signal sync issues).

So least cost option now would be a USB camera, directly connected to PC. if there is no expectation of going to 2nd camera, or ok with replacing entire setup if adding 2nd camera, that would be my suggestion (keeping it simple). The downside to USB connection is cable length considerations (restrictions), so camera and OBS PC within a few feet of each other [beware those who claim they can use long USB cables. sometimes you can, sometimes you can't].
Yes, you can plug audio into camera, but why bother? You have the same gain adjustment adapter and TRRS cable required, and then you lose some flexibility (i think) in audio processing, example latency delay??... not sure. But same TRRS cable can plug into OBS PC and just use it vs extra routing hop thru camera which might help, but just as easily might makes things more complicated. So, .... just don't assume plugging audio into camera... maybe, but test
As for camera, a no-name knock-off NDI PTZ camera is about US$1K at the moment, while comparable Panasonic, Sony, Canon, PTZOptics are around US$2K. For me, the Panasonic was cheaper, immediately available, and had better optics and motor (quieter, diagonal movement, etc) than PTZ Optics, so no brainer. When I asked local resellers of both Panasonic and Sony PTZ cameras, what a House of Worship would get by spending more for the Sony, I was told 'nothing'. But that was 16 months ago. Another option might be to get a ePTZ camera (ie no physical pan/tilt/zoom function, rather it is a 4K camera that can electronically display a different portions of the image, and electronically zoom in) which *might* be cheaper. just food for thought/investigation
There are much cheaper options than PTZOptics, though in part you get what you pay for, so depends on image quality expectation you have. I have no personal experience with the cheap 30fps security camera type setups. In part whether such would work for you depends on the lighting you have (cheaper optics need more light)

And don't under-estimate computational power required for real-time video encoding. Cellphones have a dedicated chip and software to do it; PC's don't necessarily have such things. And going super low-budget (under-powered) on PC means you'll spend time trying to optimize OS and OBS, vs focusing on presentation/community
I was given to understand that there is NO video encoding to be done by the computer. The PTZ 20X-NDI is supposed to take care of that. All the computer is doing, if I understood the tech there, was to make the account sign on and establish the IP link to upload the video stream from the camera itself.
 

cyclemat

Active Member
mmmmh when i show the ART12 USB its all Asio what is normal in professional sulutions didnt see the problem to bring it to obs and when nothing work yound interfach monitor out from the mixer to OBS. ther problem with none NDI cams are the latency.
but another idea is make an converter like this for an Logitech stream cam :)


@cdrobsonjr normal cameras with network connection have high latency to fix this you need buffering the stream for this you need a relativ good machine! better is looking for an ndi cam or use a USb solution !!
 
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Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
I was given to understand that there is NO video encoding to be done by the computer. The PTZ 20X-NDI is supposed to take care of that. All the computer is doing, if I understood the tech there, was to make the account sign on and establish the IP link to upload the video stream from the camera itself.

No, that is a misunderstanding, I believe.
Some cameras can send direct streaming provider (Facebook, YouTube, etc). but then OBS (and PC) isn't involved. If video going from camera to OBS, then OBS PC is decoding incoming video (has to, to make video visible to OBS and then re-encoding to stream). Now the PC could be used for setting up stream (like getting stream key, monitoring in /Live Producer, etc)
But I've never heard of OBS PC as acting as pass-through on a video signal
 

cyclemat

Active Member
the problem on FB was you must everytime to start the stream you must press start stream on FB and i cant make by scripts
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
the problem on FB was you must everytime to start the stream you must press start stream on FB and i cant make by scripts
That is not true for Scheduled Live events. For FB, you schedule the specific time in advance (not an issue for House of Worship service on a set schedule), and you must start streaming 10+ minutes in advance of scheduled start time. FB will then start stream automatically.
So for example, we have a 10am service, so our scheduled FB livestream start time is 9:55am (to give people time to connect). In OBS, we start streaming around 9:40am (just to be safe). what we stream doesn't matter, only that we are connected and sending stream content. FB will auto-start livestream at scheduled start time of 9:55am (usually takes about 15->30 seconds to actually start and be visible to viewers). In the approx 5 minute lead time to actual in-person event start time (10a), we display music copyright slide for 2 seconds, have a countdown timer, a short walk-up pre-recorded video of our site, etc. At the start of the pandemic, and our user community being completely unfamiliar with FB livestreaming, we actually started 10 minutes in advance, and include a music Prelude.
We schedule upcoming livestream event/service 1 to 2 weeks in advance. A year ago (or so), FB only allowed scheduling up to 1 week in advance, it is now possible to schedule further out, but I haven't checked just how far in advance

and side note: an important to us benefit of a Scheduled Facebook Live Event is a consistent URL viewable by anyone on Internet (not just logged in FB users)
 
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