Performance drop in fresh install

[MichielV]

Today I Installed macOS Sonoma 14.5 on a 4 year old Mac (intel i9, 32GB, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8GB)). There is a lot space on the SSD Since this install, +/- 3-5 minutes after starting OBS, OBS is very slow. I have tried OBS studio 2.9.0.2 and the latest version 3.1.2 (both intel based).

use case:
Just 1 simple scene, 1 source (ATEM Mini Extreme ISO 9.5 via UBB) video at 1080p25 results in dropping frames and heavy CPU Load). The fans are blowing as hell.

I never head issue's on this Mac before when I was using macOS Monterey.

 

[MichielV]

This is a screenshot of the CPU usage.

 

[MichielV]

Anyone?

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Numerous threads in this forum on recent MacOS changes and implications with OBS Studio. I'm NOT a MacOS person, so I can't answer more specifically, but pay attention to the Encoder selected, and ensure it is the appropriate one for your system. Also, be aware of security changes at Operating System level, including potentially needing to explicitly grant OBS Studio access to certain Sources (like webcam & mic)
sorry, this will get technical and specifics matter.

In your case, I'm suspecting OBS Studio defaulted to a CPU encoder instead of a GPU offload based one

 

[MichielV]

Thanks Lawrence for your reply. There are a lot threads indeed, but unfortunately I didn't find the answer yet. I also tried all the encore options, but no success. I'm looking to all the (hidden) security or access settings, but it seems a bit complicated and I am not that technical. It's also hard to determine what exactly is the trigger that caused the cpu/gpu overload. Sometimes it already starts even without any inputs connected. Sometimes only when I start streaming to YouTube. Reproducing is not easy.

I am afraid that the combi Sonoma / IntelMac and OBS is not a good combination.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

see pinned thread in this forum on posting OBS Studio log... read the details.... needs to include Streaming/Recording session.. link in my .sig to Windows pinned post is more descriptive, if I recall correctly

Beware plugins which may or may not be compatible.
Beware background processes which may be pushing system 'over the edge'

Not sure exactly which Encode options you tried, but going through recent forums posts from others on same issue should point you in the right direction

 

[MichielV]

Thanks Lawrence, for the links and tips. I did use the Log analyser as well. Most critical was the 96.5% CPU encoder overload, even when I did try the hardware acceleration. I am afraid MacOS Sonoma (14) doesn't make use of the AMD Pro 5500M GPU and is only optimised for the M1,2,3 internal GPU's (that's an assumption).

There not many threads including Intel based Macs combined with Sonoma and OBS. My experience with macOS Monterey (12) on the Intel machine and OBS was excellent, even with a lot of other apps open. The difference is too big. The only active application is OBS and one browser tap for YouTube. Connection is 50Mbit down/up (stable).

I will give it a try now with reinstall the MacBook Pro with Ventura (MacOS 13). To be continued...

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Good luck, and for the community, please post what you find

A quick google search pulled up an Adobe article and reference to needing to disable the Intel iGPU to have the Radeon work as expected ... maybe something to look into... sounds like an Operating System /driver bug

 

[MichielV]

Well, I just take one step between for testing the situation.
In stead of going back to MacOS Ventura I gave it one more change with a clean install of Sonoma without any application on it. So, no dropbox, no office, no adobe cloud and no FCPX and Motion, no stream deck etc.

First of all, I started OBS, WITHOUT the ATEM connected. I only used the webcam as a video source. Yes, just a 720p stream to Youtube.
after 15 minutes tere is a CPU overload already. I used all the video encoder options. The streaming fails again and again and again.
results were the same for OBS Studio 29.0.2 and version 3.1.2

From here I could decide to stop the test, but I was just to curious and continue with the ATEM at 1080p and 8.000kbps. No surprise the cpu overload occurs very fast. Fan noise is loud!!

Oh, and one more thing: Using OBS Stats Tool of monitoring?... that results in compleet crash foor the MBP. Same thing by the second attempt: again a crash of the MBP (and very hot computer).

CONCLUSION: OBS Studio on a Intel-base Mac with macOS Sonoma is a big NO GO!!!!!!!!

Next week, I make a clean install with macOS Ventura and start over the test. On a Mac mini M2, it works excellent. Let's see what how an Intel-based MBP will handel this:
MacbookPro model 2019, INTEL i9 8-core (16 cores with HT).
32GB internal memory
1TB SSD (+/- 940MB free)

to be continued...

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

What you listed doesn't address my last post... which may or may not be relevant to your situation.
but *if* what I came across is relevant, all of your testing was probably invalid/meaningless.

You MUST make sure you are actually using the Radeon for encoding. I do NOT just mean choosing amongst available encoding options per the OBS Studio drop down. you have to know which encoding option you should be using (figure it out if you don't know already), and make sure it appears, select it, and then confirm GPU utilization corresponds to the encoding. full stop.
- if you don't do that, most anything else you do probably won't mean what you think it does ... like your conclusion

As of OBS Stats - I use it (on Windows OS) for monitoring encoding details, but that is all. Its CPU usage info is misleading at best. I use Operating System tools as it is overall usage, not OBS Studio process(es) that is important. I suspect CPU encoding, overloaded CPU, and system instability as a result. In which case Stats Tool issue is simply an additional symptom... but I could also be wrong in my guess

 

[MichielV]

I monitored the GPU load and tried to figure out which encoder takes advantage to the AMD 5500M 8GB. In all different (encoder) options the 5500M load was about 20-25% (average). The iGPU is 0%. In MacOS I don't have an option to turn the GPU on or off. In OBS I can't find any option to make more use of the GPU and less of the CPU. The only option I now is the video encoder.

In an older thread (2019) I found this: "OBS on MacOS cannot make use of the encoder hardware in Nvidia and AMD discrete GPUs because the necessary APIs do not exist for MacOS"

I think quick sync (Intels CPU encoder) and is listed as: "Apple VT 264 Hardware Encoder" should do the job. But also this setting didn't help.

Let's see what the previous MacOS Venture brings.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

In MacOS I don't have an option to turn the GPU on or off.

I would expect disabling the iGPU per that Adobe post I referenced had to do with disabling at BIOS level, not OS ... and I'm not suggesting it is the right thing to do. sorry, not my area of expertise... just trying to provide potential pointers in the right direction

 

[MichielV]

With all respect, I 'm not really a technical computer guy but just an end-user of applications. So get into BIOS stuff is one step to far. Mac doesn't have BISO but something like UEFI and works way different than for windows. Struggling with Unix command lines is not my cup of thea ;-)

So, I sticked by my plan and test OBS in MacOS Venture. Unfortunately the same problem occurs.

The 'good' news is that I think I find the cause of the problem. It's the MacOS own Kernel_task. As soon the temperature of the Macbook pro get's higher, this task takes over all the resources from OBS. The big question is, why this problem didn't occur in Monterey? With no problem, I could use a heavy load of resources like FCPX and other video apps without any problem.

One of the solutions should be resetting the SMC (an internal controller for power supply, fans and cpu temperature) but it doesn't help (yet)

It looks like the Intel i9 based Mac isn't able anymore to do the Job.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

With all respect, I 'm not really a technical computer guy but just an end-user of applications. So get into BIOS stuff is one step to far. Mac doesn't have BISO but something like UEFI and works way different than for windows. Struggling with Unix command lines is not my cup of thea ;-)

UEFI is an updated name for updated BIOS... I was meaning BIOS in the generic sense... and basic computer Hardware control systems (BIOS/UEFI, etc) all work basically the same, with different GUI, and programmed levels of control/flexibility (which Apple avoids)

Livestreaming using non-Apple software is WELL outside the Apple's walled garden... with all that implies

The 'good' news is that I think I find the cause of the problem. It's the MacOS own Kernel_task. As soon the temperature of the Macbook pro get's higher, this task takes over all the resources from OBS. The big question is, why this problem didn't occur in Monterey? With no problem, I could use a heavy load of resources like FCPX and other video apps without any problem.

You are referring to what is known as thermal throttling (ie reduce performance to prevent hardware damage due to overheating) and response curves may vary based on OS version, but concept and impact are largely the same. Some of the thermal responses are controlled at (generic) BIOS level, and others at OS layer

The issue I suspect you are seeing is that those other apps were most likely running different processes (at detail technical level) having VASTLY different CPU/GPU impact. Free open-source software doesn't always have access to latest licensed/patented code/processes (said and meant only in very generic sense... it depends). And goes back to my initial comment... sounds like using CPU not GPU for video encoding

It looks like the Intel i9 based Mac isn't able anymore to do the Job.

That would be a conclusion based on other specific unstated assumptions/restrictions, but which make that general claim not true. That Intel based Mac is capable of doing the same as it was before. the hardware hasn't changed.
Did Apple screw you up with their OS version update? quite possibly

Most likely there are work arounds... as I noted above. But, Apple being Apple, and this use case being outside the walled garden, as mentioned, may be way more complicated than it needs to be (blame for that complexity is entirely on Apple)

Hopefully someone with more MacOS specific knowledge will be able to assist you.
Or maybe Apple will fix this OS issue (as clearly it impacts more than OBS Studio), but with their focus on the new M chips... ??
Or maybe a future OBS Studio release will figure out a way to programmatically work around the OS change Apple made which impacts GPU usage (maybe, if possible, depends... could be restricted by Apple)

 

[MichielV]

Thanks Lawrence_ for all the tips and following this issue. In the meanwhile I found a lot of threads about the last intel based MBPs and heating management (specially for the i9 version) is one of the cons of this machine. I remember when the MBP was brand new, the fans were running quite soon when I used CPU intensive apps like FCPX. But there was no problem with overheating. Now days, the temperature increasing much faster, also with smaller task.

The thermal throttling you mentioned is correct which means that the kernel_task intervene very quickly. This is almost 4 years old MacBook Pro, so I opened and clean all the fans. It did help a little, and the temperature is better in control.

However, for OBS it is still not solved. In stead of the Kernel task, it's OBS itself, who takes more then 1000% CPU for just a simple stream of 1080p25 at 8.000 kbp. After a while, the kernal_task takes it over again. The only way to stay under the 100% is setting the "CPU Usage Preset" to Ultrafast (OBS output setting). I can stream for more than 15 minutes but of course the quality is poor and unacceptable.

A second thing I noticed in the Task manager is VTDecoderXPCService which takes always a pretty high part of the CPU time.

You are right that the MBP didn't change and it was capable to do a lot of work. What did change is the OBS versions and MacOS versions. It seems that the latest MacOSs put less effort to Intel based Macs. I don't know about OBS itself, but there should also a reason why it takes so much CPU power for such an easy and low profile livestream.

I really don't have a clue.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

You are right that the MBP didn't change and it was capable to do a lot of work. What did change is the OBS versions and MacOS versions. It seems that the latest MacOSs put less effort to Intel based Macs. I don't know about OBS itself, but there should also a reason why it takes so much CPU power for such an easy and low profile livestream.

I suspect the answer is that Apple changed something and now OBS Studio is using the CPU instead of the GPU for the VERY computationally demanding task of real-time video encoding... that would explain exactly what you are observing

Your fix will be getting the encoding back onto the GPU, which is what the Adobe article referenced
that article may not be the right answer for you... but I suspect something in that 'vein' is what will have to be resolved ... and don't expect it to be typical Apple user friendly.. at least not in the short-term and if an intentional Apple change, may always be 'tricky'

Now, whether others will chime in or ?? but this may (or may not) require going to older version of Operating System and OBS Studio. Potentially also a hardware firmware (BIOS/UEFI/?) settings change
You may need to become tech savvy, or find someone who is, to change settings on your computer to get you back to where you were... and please recognize... it's all Apple's fault. Maybe take computer to Apple store/genius bar and have them 'fix' it for you (and provide detailed documentation so you can fix it yourself later, if required (another MacOS or firmware update undoes the fix) without another trip to the store)

 

[Rob1407]

This morning I installed OBS Studio 30.2.2 on my 'new' second hand iMac i9 with MacOS 14.5 Sonoma and recorded a playback of my score in MuseScore 4 with samples from an external drive, and saw all the CPU temperatures going to 100 degrees Celsius and the fan to it's max. Thought it was my iMac not able to coop with all that at once. But the CPU's weren't doing that much and very little RAM was used. I saw a YouTube video about installing an older version , that you can just install 'on top of' the newer version. And installed OBS Studio version 30.1.2 ....and luckily everything is normal again!....temperatures stay around 70-80 degrees Celsius during recordings.