Major Dropped Frames

8bitjosh

New Member
I know this is a common issue and I've read through the dropped frames thread. I've done everything I can think of from changing hardware (modem, router, cables) fresh install of Windows, OBS, etc and I can't for the life of me figure out why I'm having such terrible network issues lately. It's only when I'm streaming too. I don't have any issues when watching Twitch or Youtube, Netflix etc. I had a tech from my ISP out a few months back and they said there were no issues with the signal or connection to the house. I have another tech coming out Wednesday to look again but wanted to see if I could narrow down what could be the issue from people here who are probably more knowledgable. Attached are two logs of test streams that were around an hour each. One is with my normal settings and scene setup, the other is with everything removed except for game capture. Both test streams had significant dropped frames. Any help or guidance would be much appreciated!

My specs:
i7 9700k
32 GB RAM
RTX3070
Network is 200mpbs up/20 down
 

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rockbottom

Active Member
Your logs are a @#$%in' mess & your internet sucks.

15:07:29.664: Output 'adv_stream': Number of dropped frames due to insufficient bandwidth/connection stalls: 34951 (16.1%)

16:09:59.702: Output 'adv_stream': Number of dropped frames due to insufficient bandwidth/connection stalls: 20239 (10.0%)

 

8bitjosh

New Member
I have no control over the logs being a "@#$%in' mess" as you said and I don't know why my internet "sucks". I know I'm getting dropped frames, maybe if you could add some explanation that would actually be helpful.
 

Harold

Active Member
The streamelements plugin replaces core components of obs, and literally vomits all over your logs, making them unreadable.
as for your connection issue
 

rockbottom

Active Member
That would be a question for the tech that you have coming out today.

If he doesn't figure it out & fix it, keep calling your ISP for service until they do.
 

FerretBomb

Active Member
You can always install software like Pingplotter (they have a free version) and point it at the ingest server you use. Leave it running while you stream. The last hop will always be 100% packet loss as Twitch have ICMP traffic disabled on their servers, but if you see packet loss on any OTHER nodes in the route, it's a good chance they're where the problem is. If none have packet loss, look for a node with severely varying ping response time on the far right... a problem node will generally have a pretty wide disparity.

And as far as OBS.Live? Yeah, uninstall that ASAP. You don't need it, you can recreate ALL of the functionality it provides with Custom Docks from the View menu as OBS.Live provides, without the crappy coding and problems it causes.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
I can't for the life of me figure out why I'm having such terrible network issues lately. It's only when I'm streaming too. I don't have any issues when watching Twitch or Youtube, Netflix etc.

Basic networking observation - what you mention (watching anything, Netflix, etc) is ALL download traffic, and they all build in buffers to handle network traffic jitter. The Internet wasn't desired initially for jitter/latency sensitive traffic. Many band-aids have been added on, but basic design and assumptions of TCP/IP is packets arrive whenever, in whatever order, and all will be well. The fact that it works for voice etc is a marvel of modern engineering... but, you are still swimming upstream (pun intended)

Now, as an IT person, and when dealing with gaming PCs in general, typically Game code quality is crap, and gamers rebuild their OS regularly because of how bad games and their own 'tweaking' ruin the OS. So, in general, I laugh at the thought of trusting a gaming computer to be operating well... could be... never something I'd count upon. ever. That a gamer doesn't notice how bad things are doesn't mean there aren't problems (EVERY gamer system I've ever checked has been an absolute disaster, security is effectively disabled, etc)
I mention the follwoing only as you indicated replacing a lot of Internet related hardware. A point-in-time test that would be fairly reliable would be a clean OS build, all excess start-up apps disabled, no 3rd party A/V, etc and just OBS (no plugins, etc). Plug straight into Internet modem and stream static image at desired bitrate ... do you have issues or not? If you don't have issue, then start plugging in rest of networking gear (router, etc). test again (with NOTHING else (phone, TVs, smart devices, etc) connected). If all is well, then you you know that it isn't the network, or where to start looking at least
ISPs don't usually test network throughput, especially not for upload jitter, ie game streaming (Advanced network admins at the ISP could, but your field techs, even Level 1/2 engineering support... probably not, or at least nt adequately). However, similar protocols, network implications when doing video conferencing, though usually at much lower bitrates

Then (having not looked at your OBS logs as more knowledgeable folks already have) it sounds like you need to clean up you OBS setup (maybe wipe and start over?), sticking to quality code elements only. I know that isn't what you want to hear. but if your focus is on fixing issue, this is how to be sure of where your issue is coming from
Good Luck
 

8bitjosh

New Member
Thanks everyone for the replies! The tech did find that the coax cable coming into the house had started to rust a little at the point of connection and replaced all of it. However I'm still experiencing some frame drops (though it doesn't seem to be as bad?)

I also uninstalled OBS.live as I've been annoyed by it lately anyway, so just another reason to get rid of it!

I'll give Pingplotter a try and see what that shows.

Attached is another log from a test stream post ISP tech visit. But I'm guessing it more or less will show the same thing.
 

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8bitjosh

New Member
Ran PingPlotter and pointed it to the closest ingest server that I use and it looks like there is significant packet loss on several nodes. I ran it without streaming and again while I was streaming and you can see when I'm streaming almost every node has packet loss if I'm reading it right.

Assuming I'm reading it right, that's an issue I have to address with my ISP?
 

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Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Logs still shows network/bandwidth problem (could be ingest servers)
Have you tried streaming to something else like FB or YT?

With a bitrate of 5K you should be fine with 20mb/s upload as long as NOTHING else is using that upload bandwidth you are expecting to be available
are you in a position to make sure your PC is the ONLY device using your Internet connection?
 

8bitjosh

New Member
Yeah my PC is the only device using my internet connection when I'm streaming.

I ran a test stream to Youtube and it was basically the same result, having a number of dropped frames.
 

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Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Yeah my PC is the only device using my internet connection when I'm streaming.

I ran a test stream to Youtube and it was basically the same result, having a number of dropped frames.
So 2 things
1. if same result to alternate target, then it isn't Twitch's ingest servers
so, yea, certainly could be your ISP

2. not to be OCD, but is anything else even CONNECTED to your LAN? the following is unlikely, but to truly eliminate possible bandwidth bottlenecks, you have to be sure nothing else a problem source (and saying something like PC is only device using, doesn't mean other devices aren't on network)
You are plugged directly into router, right? no WiFi bridge or anything like that?
Have you disabled any special IDS/IPS type filters on router (basically want to make sure you haven't done something like turning on advertised features that is causing a CPU issue on router).Or is it a WiFi access point router, with lots of WiFi devices connected (again possibly causing issue with router)?

Running any additional security software on your PC?
have you tried streaming from a different PC (fresh OS)?

my recommendation would be - make sure OS firewall enabled and silly game exceptions disabled (want OS to not be listening to anything other than reply traffic) and plug into modem (no router... so dangerous as constant persistent scanning/hacking done against all worldwide IPs looking to compromise target. So if you do this, your PC will be attacked. Properly configured, you'll be fine (but not default settings) ... the safer option is using an alternate router, nothing else connected and super simple config.. basically default settings, not listening to anything remote, blocking/ignoring scans, etc, then try again

I say this as I've advised others who followed really bad 'Internet' advice from people who didn't really understand what they were doing, and created a mess in the process. Be that in PC settings, router config, etc. So without knowing your details, I'm suggesting working with known clean devices ... ymmv
good luck
 

8bitjosh

New Member
My phone was connected to the wifi, everything else was disconnected for my tests. The devices I have connected on a daily basis (2 TVs and a console) hasn't changed and wasn't an issue before I started getting frame drops. They also aren't being used while I stream. So I wouldn't think that would be an issue all of a sudden?

My router is using default setting, I haven't configured anything with it other than the network name and passwords. I have also tried plugging directly into the modem to see if that would make any difference.

I did a clean install of Windows and everything a couple months back when I upgraded some parts. I don't have another PC to stream from unfortunately.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Probably not the TVs or console.... but you have no idea what they are doing in the background... they are full computers unto themselves... so maybe, but maybe not an issue. You've done a lot of other things, I'm simply mentioning items to take you from 'think (hope)' to know. So, yea phone off WiFi network as well.

Have you tried something like a large OneDrive, Google Drive, or other file transfer... and monitored traffic? Assuming you have 20mb/s upload, can you sustain a multi-gig transfer at something approaching your bandwidth limit? There are other, much better ways to test real-time traffic consistency (jitter), but in terms of what an average user can use/do on their own... if you can sustain a 15+mb/s file transfer to the Internet (for an extended period of time) then you should be able to stream at 6mb/s.... unless you have something interfering with that specific traffic, or the ISP has some QoS type setup that is interfering.. there are other possibilities, but those seem most likely
 
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