IP Camera recommendations for OBS if possible

Good Morning Everyone !

Moving forward after Covid as we now have money to install our network and new cameras in our church !

Knowing there are so many cameras and camera choices today , (Video coax HDMI to ip Cameras and many others ) I am looking to see what other people are doing in re to a small hall or a church with cameras . I have been around the world ( Literally speaking ) form 20 dollar solutions up to over 6 thousand for cameras . I tested a few IP Cameras and had minimal success but am reaching out to see if anyone had a camera that they are happy with . I tested out a few models of IP Cameras with pretty decent results on the stream to OBS and up to YouTube and was wondering if anyone else had any info to share

Thanks Everyone !

Regards
Rich
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
I did the same a year ago, as we started with a USB webcam. Knowing in-person would resume eventually, and streaming would continue, I looked at camera options. For future-looking, I decided on NDI PTZ cameras. HDMI has its own issues, and requires a capture card. SDI is ancient and less flexible wiring. USB distance limitations preclude using same technology if/when you go to multi-camera in Sanctuary. And I'm a IT Pro, so Power-over-Ethernet, routing, ACLs, terminating my own Ethernet cables (which I've done in the CAT5 days, but no more), etc don't intimidate me. And I know why to avoid using WiFi for stability/reliability/consistency (yes, I know how to do so over WiFi, and have a portable camera setup for outdoor activity (ex. Palm Sunday procession around property along street) but also means I know why to avoid WiFi otherwise)

Our back of Sanctuary (choir loft with pipe organ) is about 50ft from the alter, so I needed a 20X optical zoom camera (PTZOptics has a nice calculator to determine needed zoom range for a given distance and framing target .. ie full body vs upper body shot). Our Sanctuary is wider than deep, so Pulpit and lectern are approx 25ft away from centerline, so a fixed view camera would NOT work (but a single PTZ would).
I looked at Security Cameras (due to price).. but terrible movement motors, low image quality, often only 15fps, etc meant I quickly dismissed them. If it was that or nothing, I'd reconsider... depends on budget and viewer expectations

So a 20X NDI PTZ camera it was for us (I'm I've been pleased with my choice)
- During my research, PTZOptics had some supply issues, and for the same price I could get a Panasonic AW-HN38 which had the added benefit of much better motion control (ex diagonal movement). Equivalent Sony PTZ cameras are significantly more expensive, and local VARs could not explain any benefit/value for paying more for the Sony's in our environment. So Panasonic it was. A nice extra was Panasonic's Virtual USB driver that collects the NDI feed from the camera and makes it appear as a local USB connected device (avoiding NDI plugin, etc)
- Then there is your stream resolution to consider. Streaming in 4K is VERY rare, and to keep viewership engagement (and where are users are at the time) and comments consolidated we chose a streaming platform that is 720p. Hopefully before long, we'll upgrade to 1080p. I do NOT expect 4K streaming in next couple of years, so... no need for price premium of a 4K PTZ camera today (beauty of NDI is that if we do upgrade at some point, current camera can simply be moved to create alternate angle view)

Now, I've noticed the recent PTZOptics knock-off cameras for 1/2 price. And we could use a 2nd NDI camera, so it is tempting
HOWEVER, the ones I've looked at so far lack a corporate presence, decent English translated interfaces, reported buggy implementations, etc. They have all the appearance of early fly-by-night operations, so I wouldn't count on firmware updates over the life of the device (if beyond a year) [which may or may not be an issue]. I've seen on large presence vendor on Amazon disappear already. The Internet reviews/comparisons of these camera I've seen only cover the basics and not
- noise level and quality of motor movement
- rely on using other vendor (usually pointing to PTZOptics themselves) for camera control s/w like OBS plug-in or joystick controller
- low-light (common in House of Worship) image quality
so I've reached out directly to one vendor (only has a gmail address??) and will see about getting a test unit.. but no idea when that will be. For the time being I'm VERY cautious about the knock-off PTZ cameras. Hopefully it will lead to a shake-up in market pricing and Tier 1 vendors will come down in price... we'll see
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
To add to this, if you go with a PTZ camera, don't underestimate the importance of how you are going to
- get video signal into OBS
- control PTZ camera (movement, presets, etc)
as in ... browser interfaces are a poor option, accept that only if you budget doesn't allow better. beware a vendor where that is your only option
 
Hey Lawrence
Great Stuff as in your write up and Thank You !
We are prob where you were in the beginning as of today !
What to choose :
IP Cameras or Full usb hdmi style like you suggest ... We run OBS on a single Canon hdmi cable Home Video Camera now ( HFR 800 non wireless plugged into a laptop with OBS Studio ) and it seems to be ok but limited on everything as in location etc. Tested some cameras and found a wireless lag in the stream also so I am skeptical as you mention your comments below !

What are we doing :

We are looking for around 5 cameras ( 3 in the main church , another one ( 4 total in the church area ) behind the alter and one in our Community cafe downstairs ( 180Degree zoom ) . Budget is tight as we have around 5 to 7 K to put in the network ( Cat 6a Wired and a Layer 2 POE switch ) . I want to start by setting up a PTZ in the church and then in the Cafe ( Already have a switch and cat 6 cabling for the cafe )
Exactly what I am facing right now !

Moving forward for equipment :

I'll be buying a laptop and another poe switch for the cameras soon , but I want to prove the concept first especially the wireless portion as the cameras will be Cat6A and wired but reviewing the pc as wireless to be remote inside the main Church ! I know the warnings of wireless also LOL as I have been there ! We installed some Cambium and Grandstream 1300 Mp's AP's and the Cambium are fantastic !

Possible choice :

I am looking at 1 each Milesight Security Camera to test with as it has the added functions we need .
MS-C5371-X12PC
AI POE PTZ Mini Dome 5.0 MP 12X
optical
zoom lens

I spoke to another church and they are running high end cameras with RG6 and 2 Sony SRG 300H cameras but we may not be able to afford that at this time . Although this is an IP Security camera it is a decent PTZ but the camera says 2 Megapixels but the order form says 5 . 1080P at 30 FPS also .

So :

I am kind of in a state trying to put the pieces together now in what direction to go . I too am IT ( VOIP UC ) and have been researching this as well . I have a great Router installed and can set up vlans etc. , tag traffic if necessary sent out via OBS to Youtube . Trying to keep it simple also !

Thanks again for the comments and input !
Any comments MUCH appreciated !

Regards

Rich
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Unless you are familiar with WiFi spectrum scanning, have a system to real-time monitor WiFi usage, knock-off rogue clients and APs (hotspots), etc... you are just asking for a myriad of unknown gremlins trying to use WiFi for streaming when lots of others will be around (most with WIFi enabled cuz they aren't knowledgeable/smart enough to turn it off... ugh, Users.. anyway)

WiFi from a camera to AP when absolutely required might work, but the streaming PC itself... I wouldn't even consider attempting such. And your stream needs quality audio. Can Wi-Fi, in a controlled environment, work? Sure. Work reliably in a Sanctuary with lots of Wi-Fi enabled devices (phones)? highly unlikely without way more budget than you are talking about.
With that said, what you most likely want/need is remote control of the streaming PC, not necessarily the streaming PC on a laptop WiFi connected in sanctuary. Right? You are much better off putting quality Tower PC (future storage, write DVDs, etc) someplace, then remote control the OBS PC from a laptop or tablet

Also, before getting carried away with cameras be considerate of privacy considerations? Will you have assigned space for those that do NOT want to be on camera EVER. There are folks with really good reason to avoid being on a public video. And then there is the complexity factor of running a broadcast that goes up with each additional camera and then with that many cameras, are you budgeting for a joystick PTZ controller board? A software controller is possible, has its own limitations

My approach, start with a good, reliable setup (powerful enough PC behind own firewall), high quality camera and audio setup. Then focus on content and presentation. If you do a good job, you'll get donations for more cameras. It may make sense to run all the wiring at one time, but hold off on actual camera purchase. Folks get cheap cameras and that creates a bad impression and hinders adoption. So, I'd recommend testing low-end/cheap cameras before committing to them, and compare to something nicer to see if compromise worth it or not. Hopefully, a local VAR should be able to set up such (I know that was an option for me)
 
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Great stuff and Thx ! As for testing , We have been down that route , hence my questions on types of cameras , backbone for them , etc. I think we have found every possible Carrier / wireless / boradcasting problems / issues that could occur over the last 16 months ! This gives me a solid direction to go in , FYI : I can set up a Desktop fully equipped and prob put it in our Cafe downstairs and run it out of there for now or in the main office next to the router ) . I'll take your advice and look into better camera video / broadcasting selection and see what type of infrastructure , cabling connections etc. we may use . Thx again and I'll let you know in a week or so what we decided on but it looks like probably a few ( 2 in the church and one downstairs ) high end Cameras for now and work this over the next few months / end of year ! Thx again for all the good stuff ! We DO have our Chanters stating that do NOT wish to be on the live broadcast as well ! We only broadcast the altar during services and maybe behind the alter for our Priest's recordings to the kids and adult Education after church services but that is it - no other folks , hence our ptz requirement and thinking of the future !

Regards

Rich
 

revian

New Member
Lawrence: What have you done for settings? We're running 3 PTZ (Merlin, definitely go with 20x or 30x, I'm regretting my 2 12x), and a dedicated unmanaged network PoE.

I'm really pushing for a switcher to do the heavy lifting of combining signals (The PC is processing all 3, plus our audio which is on another dedicated unmanaged network), but that is probably out of the budget.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
@revian - Not sure what settings you are referring to
I'm using a managed PoE switch (which I wouldn't buy again, I'd get a different vendor/model managed switch with built in DHCP and L3 routing). And I have a router in front of that. As it is a dedicated network, that only I control, I'm using DHCP on cameras, etc (not recommended practice)
Our new PC is a i7-10700K and has plenty of headroom (with a somewhat optimized OS setup - lots of misc, unnecessary stuff turned off)

As for Zoom level required, that depends on distances involved, and how close you want to get. If getting multiple cameras, and wanting a camera for more environment (wider-angle) shots, and to allow non-streamed camera movement on other cameras (ie camera not streaming, move it, then come back to make camera active/live) then a lower-zoom for that camera works fine. Depending on use case, having same Zoom capability (level) on every camera is a nice to have, not need to have.
If I was trying to make due with a lower-end PC and not upgrade it, a switcher might make sense. Or, certain specific production features of a switcher.. But at this point, for us, I'd rather video switch on PC while I can, which has added benefit of not adding complexity of additional parts /system/components inline
 
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