Help me find a good OBS broadcasting PC. Maybe jumping ship from Mac

[tripletopper]

I've run into one issue time and again. That was a Mac OS 10.12 I was able to run 12 cameras at the same type and not have them be confused because Mac OS 10.12 manually numbered cameras of the same type with a number in parentheses. That was with a 2014 Mac Mini.

I saw a new feature on OBS many years ago that help me perfect 3D broadcasting and that was the ability to color blend in an RGB additive way. Unfortunately the 2014 couldn't pull it off so I had to go with a 2018.

But in order to upgrade OBS I had to upgrade the operating system which somewhere between 10.12 and 12 that feature of numbering USB cameras was disabled and now the Mac OS is very confused and acting very unmacintoshlike. And it's not an OBS problem because it also happens in Apple's native camera apps like photo booth where it just keeps jumbling all the USB cameras that are the same and gets really confused.

By the way there's this one camera I have to have multiples of for this to work It's called an SQ11 which is those security spy cams. The main reason I need them is because literally almost every other camera is hard to get in stereoscopic Union out of two monoscopic cameras. In order to get stereoscopy correct you have to make sure the cameras are coplanar, and pointed in the same direction and not tilted at different angles and approximately 2 inches apart from center of pupil from center of pupil.

I have a lot invested in this SQ11 stereo system I even made my own custom camera rig which I could reproduce on a 3D printer and make more of these rigs.

Apple said it was for security reasons that Apple no longer numbers USB cameras that are identical.

If Windows 11 does not have this problem I might be willing to jump ship and go the Windows route.

Currently my 2018 i3 Mac Mini and my 2023 M2 Mac Mini are perfectly capable machines for broadcasting video for as long as I need to.

I do not need PC gameplay at least not premium stuff because most of my stuff is taken care of on consoles. And I have a lot of the old consoles.

Unfortunately there's a whole bunch of new brands of PCs that I never saw since a long time ago. I don't know the corporate history of these new brands who they bought and changed names to become.

All I know is because I was dealing with them all I know that Lenovo basically bought Motorola so I use their monitor which was good but I don't know if I'm over buying for just Twitch broadcasting.

And the thing is for literally 95% of my computer use is done on my Android phone. I could have had a iPhone and I did for a couple months until I found out that you can't film two external cameras on an iPhone therefore ruining my stereoscope.

Knowing that the only thing that I do on my desktop is broadcast Twitch out, What would you recommend for a computer that can broadcast using the current version of OBS?

I understand you could do more if you buy more power but the one thing I want to do eventually is broadcast the same broadcast in three different modes right eye for the 2D audience monochromized Red and Cyan for 3D with no special TV needed, and side by side half for those 2010 and later 3D TVs using the manual method.

I understand I could get those two versions working by using a remote running of OBS to translate the most complete version which would be the side by side half version and convert it into 2D and monochromised red and cyan.

I could run them virtually on a web server.

So I could use the power the web server to do the conversions and use my computer just to do the local broadcast at the same level of expertise is I had before.

So if I want a reliable computer that's cheap but can do OBS broadcasting as it's most intense operation and nothing else pretty much while doing that, What would be a good brand and model of computer to get?

Also I prefer someone who could help with computer problems.

The one last thing is that the rest of the family is kind of afraid if I get a PC that their Macintosh and other electronic equipments will be infected with viruses if I get a PC.

What would be the safest way to connect to the internet without affecting the rest of their macintoshes so that I could be about my business and everyone else could be about theirs and we don't coincide with each other.

 

[AaronD]

If you're switching from Mac, then Linux might actually be more familiar to you than Windows. Both Mac and Linux are based on UNIX, whereas Windows is its own thing.

Most of the problems on the Linux subforum are from people using a distribution/flavor that's not really meant for the job. I'd recommend Ubuntu Studio because it's made specifically for low-latency media, and because it has (either almost or actually) all the tools you need preinstalled and working. So no beating your head against the wall with installations that refuse to work.

Ubuntu Studio – A free and open operating system for creative people.

ubuntustudio.org

And it's Ubuntu, which makes it a part of the most widespread use and support group for Linux that there is.

Stick with the LTS versions (long-term support) to avoid changing things too often. The normal releases are every 6 months and supported for 1 year, while the LTS's are every 2 years and supported for 3 years. And I'd wait until the current LTS is almost done before jumping to the next one, just to give them some time to work the kinks out.

---

For viruses and other bugs, those are all system-specific. Despite the similarity, Mac and Linux are still different enough that something targeted to one really doesn't affect the other. "Healthy carriers" can technically exist though, and pass something on without being affected themselves. And of course, Windows is by far the biggest target, just because of its popularity.

That said though, *all* modern systems, if kept up to date and not abused, already have the best possible protection. It *used* to be that they were wide-open (especially Windows!) and needed third-party antivirus to close them and undo what did get in, but that's not true anymore. Now, third-party AV is all theater. It takes your money and makes you think it's doing something more than if it weren't there, but that's all for show. You don't need anything today. Just use the OS's built-in tools and keep it all updated. Nothing more.

Windows, Mac, and Linux, all on the same network, and all up to date, will not infect each other.

 

[AaronD]

As a datapoint for the hardware itself, I'm actually using a Mobile Workstation laptop from 2015, still, as my daily driver including OBS. Its GPU is out of support now, but the i7-4940MX CPU also includes a video encoder that modern things still like, so I use that.

Keeps up just fine with 2 simultaneous instances of OBS at 1920x1080p30, plus a DAW for some complex audio work (both OBS's are silent except for some unprocessed passthroughs), and a few other things.

It came with a choice of Windows 7 or 8. I picked 7, and ran that for a while, then upgraded to 10 and ran that for a while, dual-booting with some form of Linux the whole way. Then when 10 refused to update, I dropped it (no longer safe on the internet), and I've been single-boot Ubuntu Studio Linux since then.

Generally, we recommend at least a semi-modern CPU, and at least a semi-modern nVidia GPU. Make sure the GPU supports NVENC (not all do, and not all of the third-party spec-reports say), so that you can offload the encoding to that, and not require a monster CPU to do it in software. I did that myself until my GPU fell out of support, and I discovered that my CPU could also encode video in hardware.
For memory, 8GB can work if you're careful, but better to have at least 16GB. Fortunately, memory is relatively easy to expand later, if you find that you made that mistake.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

If your current Mac's otherwise working, and can get security updates on older versions of MacOS (that is a question, not a statement), then why not stick there for a while?
- yes that does mean going back to a known good point (10.12?) and maybe slowly advancing until finding OS enumeration changed behavior, then rolling back ?? not quick, I know.
- I'm with Aaron, if no on-going security updates, then it is time to get off (which makes me sad regarding WIn10).

As for viruses, due to market share, Windows were targeted (old saying "why do they rob banks? 'cuz that's where the money is" ). Realistically, all modern consumer operating systems suffer from the same opposite requirements of convenience & features vs security. Default choices seem be have been leaning more towards convenience, and Windows Default has been less secure, sort of. But realistically all OSes are vulnerable, and require similar levels of care. But a PEBKAC type user... they can/will get hacked regardless of OS. period (and no, not always know it has happened).

Now, as for Windows - likely exact similar enumeration issue... have you tested Win11 to see/check (ex a friends laptop)?
This is an area where Linux allows far more granular control... at expense of required user expertise to wield... The stereotypical Mac/ Apple user (More WiFi's, faster GBs) will likely struggle with Linux if/when trying to go beyond Distro's originally bundled apps (see Linus's comments regarding Linux on Desktop). Someone who knows to go beyond MacOS GUI at times and do a little command-line work... probably fine with Linux.
As for Windows desktop OS... every other has been a PoS for 2.5+ decades (each time, half-baked, not ready for prime time), and Win11 certainly started that way... some will argue is still there, others point to a different release practice from M$ since Win10, and Win11 isn't anywhere near as bad as ME, Vista, 8, etc. For me, I know how ot beat that OS into submission, dive into Registry, etc. And when using a app that really can push a system (real-time video encoding), I choose for myself to stick with what I know.

As for a streaming system, 12 video camera inputs is really pushing things. Though I suspect being 'spy' cameras, that they are NOT 30fps? As a computer to simultaneously, over USB, process 12 incoming video streams... is really demanding. Now make those B&W, 15 fps, and I can see a much lower workload... but standard color, 30 fps... ouch
On the x86, beware low-end systems with cheap chipsets (especially USB Root Hub) that may well cause problems for you at hardware level (OS won't help). That is a situation where a desktop with a USB PCIe add-in card (therefore extra USB Root hub(s) may help [sorry, it depends]

So, you mentioned destination (ex Twitch), but your bigger driver of resource requirements will be
- nature of that 12 video inputs
- your expected video output (4K takes a LOT more processing than 1080p)
- etc

Assuming 12 cameras are B&W 15fps, + 1 full color camera (you?) and only planning 1080p30 output, you do NOT need the latest/greatest CPU/GPU (I'm running a single NDI PTZ camera on an intel i7-10700K with a nVidia GTX 1660 Super, CPU/GPU utilization is below 20%. I could do 4K with this system, and 1 addt'l camera, and be fine).
I recommend a business class PC, not consumer grade. And personally, I have a fondness for the build quality of workstations (purchased at discount, I'd never pay regular retail for such). As for getting more specific in terms of a recommendation, that would require more info than above, and especially other workloads this system would handle. Or will this be a dedicated system, doing absolutely nothing else?

 

[tripletopper]

Most of my everyday email, web browsing, and other telecommunications is done by a Android cell phone.

My Macintosh is literally used only for out streaming on Twitch.

But it has the problem of not numbering identical USB products.

Does either Windows or Linux have a problem with identically named USB UVC video products?

Because if either of them currently do then the point of switching would be moot.

It might be the combination of an M2 processor plus using UVC cameras that are generic are causing an issue which I've done something pretty rare in the Mac community and that is prevent safe mode from booting up the normal way, or any way.

When I hold down the power button at the beginning of a 2023 Mac Mini M2 safe boot by holding down power for a long time It goes to a black screen with nothing except a cursor showing exactly nothing.

Now they think about it it might be because I use two monitors but I'm usually in one monitor mode and the other monitors for console games.

I think I may have talked my way back. I just now realized I had a secobd monitor plugged in

 

[AaronD]

Does either Windows or Linux have a problem with identically named USB UVC video products?

USB is supposed to have a unique serial number for every device, even if they're otherwise identical. But if that's the *only* difference, it's sorely tempting for the manufacturer to save a bunch of money by making them *entirely* identical. That's a violation of the USB spec, but no one's going to notice unless they have multiples on the same system.

Windows doesn't like identical devices including the serial number. I've forgotten now, which it does, but it either fails to load the second one, or it bumps the first one off. Neither is good.

Linux, I believe, can use the device tree to differentiate them, since the controller has to know that anyway regardless of OS. I haven't actually tried that though. You may still have to reorder them every time you start up, because they enumerate asynchronously at slightly random rates. But at least you'd have them all!

 

[tripletopper]

I think I found a secret in Mac.

I have 3 identical pairs of cameras (pairs because it's 3d) if these SQ11 USB cameras are plugged into a USB C to multi USB A adapter and that chain is unbroken into Thunderbolt via USB C, you can get all 6 to read without USB conflicts.

It's like 2 cameras can exist on the head of a USB C to multi USB A splitter. I haven't tried more, but messing with C to A adapters and A to C adapters causes problems. It's like my splitters are Thunderbolt (because it also has HDMI) and each USB A is a separate bus of USB 2.0, which is enough to run 1 SQ11 in 1920hp x 1080vp x 30f x 24b.

Eureka. Now I'm sharing this hoping other Mac users can stop being frustrated.

 

[tripletopper]

I think I found a secret in Mac.

I have 3 identical pairs of cameras (pairs because it's 3d) if these SQ11 USB cameras are plugged into a USB C to multi USB A adapter and that chain is unbroken into Thunderbolt via USB C, you can get all 6 to read without USB conflicts.

It's like 2 cameras can exist on the head of a USB C to multi USB A splitter. I haven't tried more, but messing with C to A adapters and A to C adapters causes problems. It's like my splitters are Thunderbolt (because it also has HDMI) and each USB A is a separate bus of USB 2.0, which is enough to run 1 SQ11 in 1920hp x 1080vp x 30f x 24b.

Eureka. Now I'm sharing this hoping other Mac users can stop being frustrated.

It's not quite right...

I notice the 2 USB C 3.2 port have the same brand of Thunderbolt (I assume so because it has HDMI out) splitter adapter connected (after adding length with a USB C extension cord.) and the 2 USB A cameras are attached to it.

I'm trying 2 different things. Maybe one of my USB C length cables is not Thunderbolt 3. Maybe my Thunderbolt splitters have identical serial numbers, just like my SQ11s, and reads it as a clone.

So I'll use my remaining USB C cable and hope it's a thunderbolt 3 cable, or use a totally unfamiliar brand of USB C 3.2 to multi USB A 3.0 splitter.