Droid Plug did not connect at church but did at home..why?

[Ronald Cz]

Had a problem with the plugin when I did a job at a church using guest to sign into their wifi. My phone and tablet were using the same guest log in as the laptop but the camera would not connect. They had good download at 100 mb and 20 mb upload. When I got home the laptop and plugin worked again fine. What was the problem at the church?

Log file attached

 

[R1CH]

The guest network likely does not allow devices to communicate with each other. This is a very common setup with public Wi-Fi networks.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

What was the problem at the church?

basic networking
Most likely - separate Guest WiFi network, with such clients naturally blocked from reaching local LAN devices (for obvious security reasons)... as is appropriate at home as well.

Most likely, you need to be on a VLAN/SSID (church network admin should know what this is) that has access to OBS Studio PC. A good network admin would insist on knowing the exact ports and protocols required, and only allow that traffic.

And you didn't ask... but beware using WiFi connected camera on same access point/network as Guest WiFi... unless your network has real-time monitoring, and quality-of-service settings to prioritize a streaming mobile device camera over other traffic.

 

[Ronald Cz]

" to prioritize a streaming mobile device camera over other traffic" The church is empty except for us doing the club meeting there with 20 people.

OK, plan two is my ASUS RT-N12 Wireless-N300 Router/Range extender. I have before connected this to the house hard wire guest log in and then extended the signal to my own people because the house Wi-Fi was too weak upstairs in the church.

Could I get a guest wifi signal in my ASUS Router and then output a wifi signal to my equipment that does block local LAN devices? Would I be able to input a Wi-fi signal and then output my own?

 

[R1CH]

That's usually only possible if the router has two radios and also doesn't backhaul received traffic back over the uplink. Ideally you would use your own router with a wired connection, the Wi-Fi network from that router is then entirely your own domain and you can pass traffic between devices without a problem. A Wi-Fi extender typically acts in bridge mode, so you'd still be routing through the church network which may cause problems.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

A Wi-Fi extender typically acts in bridge mode, so you'd still be routing through the church network which may cause problems.

I'd go as far as to say... instead of 'may cause problems', to instead be 'most likely will cause same problem'
Using consumer gear for this, without understand exactly what is going on from a networking perspective, will be problematic

Assuming Guest WiFi is your only practical Internet connection option, and if stuck with consumer network gear... I'd be inclined to test using using a portable WiFi router (something akin to the old Netgear PR2000). You want to the router to make a WAN WiFi connection to the Guest WiFi network (similar as would be used at an RV park or for secure hotel use), then the internal LAN portion you'd control, and now you could have laptop and mobile device on same LAN (wired and WiFi) that you manage
- of course you have be aware of and plan for avoiding WiFi channel overlap/contention
- and as R1CH mentioned, you'd want something with dual radios (tri-radios would be wasted/overkill). Assuming greater range on 2.4GHz from church network, then use 5GHz for your self-managed network

 

[AaronD]

I've done some something similar to Lawrence's suggestion. I had a good quality consumer WiFi router, with its wired WAN (uplink, internet, whatever you want to call that) running to a laptop's wired port. The laptop was on the building WiFi and shared that with the wired port.

No need to touch that laptop; just let it sit there and do its thing. I now have an ancient Raspberry Pi as part of my home rig that does practically the same thing but in a different way. (there are several ways to make the same hardware diagram "pass data") Local wired + WiFi network, with a different WiFi connection to the other end of the house where the ISP's WiFi router is.
No need in my case to stay on the same network while roaming the house. YMMV.

 

[Ronald Cz]

That's usually only possible if the router has two radios and also doesn't backhaul received traffic back over the uplink. Ideally you would use your own router with a wired connection, the Wi-Fi network from that router is then entirely your own domain and you can pass traffic between devices without a problem. A Wi-Fi extender typically acts in bridge mode, so you'd still be routing through the church network which may cause problems.

"Wi-Fi network from that router is then entirely your own domain" Yes that is what ASUS support said so that is my plan, to find a hardwire off something in the library.

 

[Ronald Cz]

Tried a number of other places and one public WIFI asked if I wanted other devices to be able to recognize my device however clicking that option to go private did not allow the Droid plugin to work. I guess I have to find another solution when at public places to get a wireless camera to sync with OBS.

 

[AaronD]

...when at public places to get a wireless camera to sync with OBS.

Allowing devices to see each other on a public network is usually a massive security risk. You have no idea what else can see you and how infected it might be. I wouldn't consider doing that at all.

If you're connecting your devices in random places, use your own network for that, secured of course, and not the one that may or may not be provided.

If it's only two devices - phone and laptop - then you might use the phone's hotspot. I've done that before. It's its own network with a password, and they can see each other. (I think there might be a setting for that in the phone)

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

In this scenario, you need to understand default Windows operating system network firewall settings and the Public vs Private choice and its implications. You will only get frustrated and get nowhere until you understand what is going on.
I'm suspecting on Windows, you chose Private Public which then restricts the firewall, and that is blocking the traffic (as it is supposed to)

In this case, what I recommended is something along the lines of

"larger network (connected to Internet)" - > [WAN port of your router]
this requires understanding and proper configuration of router to work. typically on simple DHCP for WAN... but depends on network you are connecting to

then on the LAN ports of your router - PC connected via Ethernet cable
- I'd go with Public network on OS PC, then adjust firewall for only the exact traffic required. but if that is too technical, and you follow remaining security advice, then choosing Private could be reasonable (as only other device is your Android mobile device... though, personally I'd never trust such a device, even my own personal one ... 'cuz I know better)
- Then, because I know too much about WiFi, I'd use an Ethernet adapter on the mobile device (USB-C to Ethernet) and route video over that... if practical.
- *If* greater mobility required, then you MUST be aware of WiFi channels, avoiding conflicts/overlap with site's existing channel usage, and the effective range on your router/access point [actual available throughput goes down significantly with distance... exactly how much distance... depends on exact equipment in use, their settings, and the overall WiFi frequency environment. For example, in enterprise corporate world, Access Points (AP) are typically configured (for security reasons) to listen for 'rouge' (non corp managed) APs and disable them [by flooding that channel and specific traffic associated with making WiFi connections]

- I would use a decent WiFi password, and not share that with ANYONE or ANYTHING other than your 1 mobile device.​

- of course this means NOT using a typical consumer router/AP's 'Guest' WiFi settings (as those are by design to keep those WiFi client(s) from connecting to LAN clients)​

 

[AaronD]

In this scenario, you need to understand default Windows operating system network firewall settings and the Public vs Private choice and its implications. You will only get frustrated and get nowhere until you understand what is going on.
I'm suspecting on Windows, you chose Private which then restricts the firewall, and that is blocking the traffic (as it is supposed to)

I think that's backwards. If you connect to a public network, like a coffee shop, then you're supposed to choose the Public option because that's what the *network* is, and then Windows locks everything down. If you connect to your own private network, then you're supposed to choose the Private option, and Windows lets you find stuff on it.

Otherwise good.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Duh, of course. Thanks Aaron
I got it right further down, but yup, backwards on that sentence (now corrected with a strikethru)

 

[Ronald Cz]

Allowing devices to see each other on a public network is usually a massive security risk. You have no idea what else can see you and how infected it might be. I wouldn't consider doing that at all.

If you're connecting your devices in random places, use your own network for that, secured of course, and not the one that may or may not be provided.

If it's only two devices - phone and laptop - then you might use the phone's hotspot. I've done that before. It's its own network with a password, and they can see each other. (I think there might be a setting for that in the phone)

Good advice but..

"use your own network" Yes I have a router but I can only get wifi from the church or saloon they don't have a ethernet cable to give. My router will not connect to wifi. Can I buy a router that connect to public wifi?

" use the phone's hotspot" True but the camera with droid was too far away from the hotspot to get signal. Better to use facilities wifi however other people was affecting the 12 mbs upload speed.

 

[AaronD]

"use your own network" Yes I have a router but I can only get wifi from the church or saloon they don't have a ethernet cable to give. My router will not connect to wifi. Can I buy a router that connect to public wifi?

Use a laptop, or an ancient Raspberry Pi, to do that. I have both. As long as it has both WiFi and Ethernet, it should work. My old Pi doesn't have WiFi on board, so it has a USB adapter. That works too.

Anyway, the WiFi of that computer connects to the wireless internet, the wire goes to your router, and you share the internet connection with the router. That might look different depending on the details of what that computer actually is, but that's the hardware at least.

Be careful of what you do with that "bridge" computer, since it's on the untrusted side of the router's firewall. You might end up doing nothing else with it, and that's perfectly okay. Bridge only.

" use the phone's hotspot" True but the camera with droid was too far away from the hotspot to get signal. Better to use facilities wifi however other people was affecting the 12 mbs upload speed.

You're starting to see the problem with using wireless for important stuff. It gets a lot worse from there. Always use a wire if at all possible. Tape it down if you have to. Spend an extra day to rig it out of the way. Etc. Really put some effort into not using wireless.

 

[Ronald Cz]

In this scenario, you need to understand default Windows operating system network firewall settings and the Public vs Private choice and its implications. You will only get frustrated and get nowhere until you understand what is going on.
I'm suspecting on Windows, you chose Private Public which then restricts the firewall, and that is blocking the traffic (as it is supposed to)

In this case, what I recommended is something along the lines of

"larger network (connected to Internet)" - > [WAN port of your router]
this requires understanding and proper configuration of router to work. typically on simple DHCP for WAN... but depends on network you are connecting to

then on the LAN ports of your router - PC connected via Ethernet cable
- I'd go with Public network on OS PC, then adjust firewall for only the exact traffic required. but if that is too technical, and you follow remaining security advice, then choosing Private could be reasonable (as only other device is your Android mobile device... though, personally I'd never trust such a device, even my own personal one ... 'cuz I know better)
- Then, because I know too much about WiFi, I'd use an Ethernet adapter on the mobile device (USB-C to Ethernet) and route video over that... if practical.
- *If* greater mobility required, then you MUST be aware of WiFi channels, avoiding conflicts/overlap with site's existing channel usage, and the effective range on your router/access point [actual available throughput goes down significantly with distance... exactly how much distance... depends on exact equipment in use, their settings, and the overall WiFi frequency environment. For example, in enterprise corporate world, Access Points (AP) are typically configured (for security reasons) to listen for 'rouge' (non corp managed) APs and disable them [by flooding that channel and specific traffic associated with making WiFi connections]

- I would use a decent WiFi password, and not share that with ANYONE or ANYTHING other than your 1 mobile device.​

- of course this means NOT using a typical consumer router/AP's 'Guest' WiFi settings (as those are by design to keep those WiFi client(s) from connecting to LAN clients)​

"on Windows, you chose Private Public which then restricts the firewall, and that is blocking the traffic"
I Picked private so that devices could be recognized on the guest wifi supplied by the saloon. This still did not allow a LAN device on the network.

I don't have a router in use I was just trying to connect laptop or desktop windows to guest WIFI signal from the church or tavern.

I cannot get an ethernet cable from the establishment to connect to.

I guess I have to buy a CAME-TV Crystal V Wireless Full HD Video Transmission System however this is more expensive to leave too far away from the live stream station with a crowd of people.

 

[AaronD]

"on Windows, you chose Private Public which then restricts the firewall, and that is blocking the traffic"
I Picked private so that devices could be recognized on the guest wifi supplied by the saloon. This still did not allow a LAN device on the network.

That's probably because the Guest network itself prevents devices from seeing each other. My consumer router has that setting as well, for its optional Guest network. If that's set, then each device only sees internet, nothing else, not each other, no matter what the devices are set for.

I don't have a router in use I was just trying to connect laptop or desktop windows to guest WIFI signal from the church or tavern.

I cannot get an ethernet cable from the establishment to connect to.

I guess I have to buy a CAME-TV Crystal V Wireless Full HD Video Transmission System however this is more expensive to leave too far away from the live stream station with a crowd of people.

Serious productions often need to work with the venue to get special exceptions to their security, or to run wires. Often both, and well beforehand. You don't just show up and start running.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

As noted previously (by 3 of us), using a "Guest" network for both OBS PC and a mobile OS device/camera is likely to NOT work, as default settings are typically to prevent Guest devices from communicating with each other as a basic security measure (think coffee shop guests devices being able to hack each other... a bad thing... so somewhat blocked/prevented by default)

short version - WiFi gets complicated/technical quickly. There are NO easy WiFi answers/solutions to what you are trying to do, that I'm aware of (that aren't enterprise class pricey, and with technical expertise required to operate).

"use your own network" Yes I have a router but I can only get wifi from the church or saloon they don't have a ethernet cable to give. My router will not connect to wifi. Can I buy a router that connect to public wifi?

Yes, LOTS of routers can make WAN connection to someone else's WiFi network (be that 'public', 'Guest', or otherwise)
Though super old and not recommended, as an example a family member of mine had the Netgear PR2000, which would connect to Guest WiFi to create own network. There are plenty of Routers (ex 'travel'/RV) that can connect to someone else's WiFi to create your own network.... Many (not all) typical consumer routers, should be be able to connect to a WiFi network as WAN link.. I have many old routers that could do this. Not exactly the same, and other (sometimes significant security) implications, but some routers may call a similar capability acting in 'Bridge' mode.
side note: I'd avoid a 'travel' router that insists on creating its own VPN connection. The overhead in doing so is likely to be problematic

If/When setting up your own WiFi network at a site that already has WiFi, you MUST be careful to avoid overlapping WiFi channels (you will have to figure this out... do NOT skip this step if you don't understand). Failing to head this advice could easily lead to your WiFi being inconsistent/non-functional, essentially connecting but not working, AND you may fully disrupt site's WiFi (and get you kicked out). And by nature of WiFi beaconing, specific setup is strongly recommended to keep your WiFi AP from communicating ONLY with your camera and specifically blocking/ignoring all other WiFi clients

" use the phone's hotspot" True but the camera with droid was too far away from the hotspot to get signal. Better to use facilities wifi however other people was affecting the 12 mbs upload speed.

Using WiFi for this is ALWAYS going to be problematic, and NOT recommended, unless you have Network Engineer level real-time monitoring skills, and understanding of avoiding conflicts and signal contention. period. And even then, there is no 'magic' that will create bandwidth. Consumer WiFi was NEVER designed for real-time latency and jitter sensitive traffic. (Streaming TV works as receiving devices buffer traffic to overcome WiFi. basic physics)

Using different radio frequency spectrum (not WiFi) is certainly one way to get around signal contention, but will be pricey as you've found. And with limited market for such solutions, that is to be expected (in some jurisdiction, this would require specific licenses/gov't permission to use such gear). You may be thinking, but wait, 'I've seen others do this. It has to be easier'. And the answer is - it can be... *IF* you have ability to created a protected WiFi environment where your 'cameras' get Quality of Service priority over all other WiFi traffic, meaning cameras are on unique channels/bands as required, and stream platform is Ethernet wired [as Aaron mentioned]. I could do this at my house easily, with 50->100+ folks on guest WiFi. BUT most sites don't have the equipment, skill, or inclination to support such a setup.

Without such a specialized setup, Using a sites WiFi for communication between camera and OBS will always be a huge problem, as your camera traffic will NOT be prioritized, AND your OBS PC will then be sending video stream out on same bandwidth, naturally resulting in conflict/contention. period.
Once in a rare while, with limited to no other guest WiFi devices powered on, and depending on specific Access Point and your clients (example using different WiFi frequency bands)... might occasionally work.. enough to fool someone into thinking it should normally work (a false assumption). As noted previously... using your own multi-radio (critical detail) router, wire OBS PC into that, then use one WiFi radio to connect to site's WiFi, then using 2nd radio/frequency/channel (also not in use by site, which will vary per location) to connect to mobile camera... might work... but lots could interfere... as noted earlier, this stuff gets complicated quickly.

Modern WiFi has only just moved beyond advanced Walkie-talkie async communication capability (and your 'driod phone may not actually support that, depending on device age/WiFi version support).​

Serious productions often need to work with the venue to get special exceptions to their security, or to run wires. Often both, and well beforehand. You don't just show up and start running.

Exactly. Even non-serious productions will require someone network savvy to have any chance of success in streaming from such venues as you've mentioned. And even with someone network savvy, some sites WiFi (used ONLY for Internet uplink) simply isn't going to support video streaming at any decent bitrate no matter what you do when others guests using same network. That is, you could test (even LOTS of testing) ahead of time, and streaming works fine. Guests arrive and it stops working... that would probably be normal/expected, actually. it depends.

With unknown Internet connectivity, I'd expect/be prepared to record locally and upload later (ie, livestream could easily fail, and not be fixable without a wired connection, and even with a wired connection, if sites Internet connection itself gets overloaded with traffic).
A decent multi-radio WiFi Router (researched prior to purchase to confirm), should be able to handle the site connection, wired connection to streaming PC, and creating separate WiFi network for ONLY mobile camera (1. secured against other connections, and 2. WiFi channel overlap ... ie. expect to have to check/manually adjust this 'your private WiFi' for each location). With this, make sure mobile camera ('droid) can support the matching/associated 'Private Wifi' network settings (example, may require disabling MAC address randomization)