Cannot "see" SMTAV PTZ Cameras in OBS

Anthony Miller

New Member
I have 2 SMTAV HD Video Cameras, Model: BA30N. I am desperately trying to integrate them into 2 existing PTZ Cameras (not SMTAV) in a church system. I am using a closed network for the cameras rtsp:/10.1.10.101/1, rtsp:/10.1.10.102/1 (for the existing cameras) and rtsp:/10.1.10.103/1 & rtsp:/10.1.10.104/1 for the new SMTAVs. I see (PING) all 4 cameras via the Joystick Controller and can interact with them BUT they (the new ones) will not load in OBS. There does not seem to be a logical reason. I was told that they might need an older firmware for them to be recognized by OBS as there are similar occurrences with the more expensive PTZ Optics brand. I have an old and the newest version of OBS with the same results. Do you have any thoughts of a resolution?
 

AaronD

Active Member
My church has two OBS rigs. One uses PoE-powered PTZ's - don't know what brand, except that they appear to be PTZ Optics knockoffs - and the other has a USB one from SMTAV.

The PoE-powered ones also have SDI outputs, and *that's* what we're using for the video signal. Not the network, even though they also have network streams. Even though the PoE switch is right next to the streaming computer, which means we have Cat-5 along the exact same path anyway, we still have a dedicated coax for the video signal from each camera, that runs directly into a 4-SDI-input PCIe capture card.
We've had some problems with a loose SDI connector on the camera end (probably because of the knockoff brand), and the cameras need to be rebooted every so often to get the latency back down to what it should be, but OBS has always "seen" them. Or more accurately, OBS has always "seen" the inputs of the card, and the card has always gotten a useful signal except for when the SDI connector on the camera was getting pulled the wrong way.

The USB one of course has its signal through USB, and it "just works" even more reliably than the PoE + SDI ones. It just can't be far away from the computer, because USB doesn't do that. Active USB extenders for greater distance technically violate the round-trip timing requirement, which is based on the physical speed of light in a cable, so that's not really recommended.
 

Anthony Miller

New Member
My church has two OBS rigs. One uses PoE-powered PTZ's - don't know what brand, except that they appear to be PTZ Optics knockoffs - and the other has a USB one from SMTAV.

The PoE-powered ones also have SDI outputs, and *that's* what we're using for the video signal. Not the network, even though they also have network streams. Even though the PoE switch is right next to the streaming computer, which means we have Cat-5 along the exact same path anyway, we still have a dedicated coax for the video signal from each camera, that runs directly into a 4-SDI-input PCIe capture card.
We've had some problems with a loose SDI connector on the camera end (probably because of the knockoff brand), and the cameras need to be rebooted every so often to get the latency back down to what it should be, but OBS has always "seen" them. Or more accurately, OBS has always "seen" the inputs of the card, and the card has always gotten a useful signal except for when the SDI connector on the camera was getting pulled the wrong way.

The USB one of course has its signal through USB, and it "just works" even more reliably than the PoE + SDI ones. It just can't be far away from the computer, because USB doesn't do that. Active USB extenders for greater distance technically violate the round-trip timing requirement, which is based on the physical speed of light in a cable, so that's not really recommended.
Thanks, Aaron, for your insight into your network application. Our system is totally ethernet-driven. Our OBS (computer) and Joystick controller are some distance away from the existing POE cameras (currently working) in the sanctuary. Switching to COAX is not a viable solution. These SMTAV specs seem similar to the PTZ Optics ( and I understand their installation is not seamless either)...
 

AaronD

Active Member
Switching to COAX is not a viable solution.
It may have to be. Though you're not really *switching*, as the existing Cat-5 is still there, and still used for power and control. *Only the video* moves to what is practically TV antenna cable with BNC's on the ends.
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Nah ;^)
- my advise is to stick to Ethernet and resolve the issue. I love having a single Ethernet cable, for control, video, and power per camera, and would NOT consider going back.
Though mixing camera Mfgs and potentially varying video latency is never great... but i get it. For budget reasons, our next NDI PoE PTZ camera not likely to be from same major name brand either.

Are these cameras models that don't support NDI? [type a bunch more, ... then go back and look up that camera SMTAV BA30N... that is NDI, right? so why using RTSP for them?
- though mixing RTSP for older cameras (if required) and NDI for new cameras would be its own issue {typically I'd advise sticking to same protocol... but maybe that won't work in this case?}... and NDI and OBS have their own challenges. I'm happy my PTZ vendor has a VirtualUSB driver that takes NDI video feed and converts to make it appear as local USB webcam... no NDI Tools or other hoop-jumping required to get video into OBS Studio for me]

As I've been saying for years, start with your sources OUTSIDE of OBS (ie OBS Studio not started/running at all)
Sorry, my PTZ camera experience is with an expensive $2K NDI PoE model. so, if my assumptions are incorrect, my apologies in advance
1. Do these have a web interface that you can log into each and confirm each camera is working?
2. I know you said you can control SMTAV BA30N via joystick controller... but that doesn't necessarily mean configured correctly for video output [some controllers have video display for selected camera, others don't.. depends]
3. You should be able to configure a simple viewer on OBS PC (vendor, VLC, or ??) and confirm each camera is sending RTSP stream (if that is your best option) and working individually.
- it may be possible to configure SMTAV cameras to do too much (NDI high compression, and 2 streams). If not using NDI, best to disable that stream (not sure what NDI Preset = Off means SMTAV manual, pg 39?)​
- presuming not using audio from cameras, you did disable Audio on them, right? As well as any other protocols, not needed​
4. if you disable the 1st 2, older cameras, do the newer SMTAVs video feeds now work in OBS?

... then comes the fun (for us who enjoy a challenge) of getting all four cameras working over network at same time...

- area all 4 cameras and OBS PC plugged into same Ethernet switch?
- have you monitored network switch to make sure it isn't overloaded or having problems (occasionally an issue with low-end (ex tp-link or similar) brands/models), or an ACL or other config causing a bottleneck?​
- assuming video confirmed sending on all 4 cameras at same time, how is bandwidth consumption? My NDI camera uses less than 30MB/s for 1080p60. 4 of those and you are getting close to gig network limits (1,000 mb/s = ~128MB/s)​
- you can disable extra camera video streams if not in use (or maybe go low-resolution stream for joystick controller?) to save on bandwidth​
- if bandwidth and network latency not a problem, and confirmed all 4 video signals reaching Operating System, then time to move onto OBS Studio processing signal
- be sure to monitor hardware resource utilization at Operating System level to make sure PC isn't overloaded​
- then there is making sure, if using RTSP for all 4 cameras, which version/dialect of RTSP is in use and find a common denominator for both cameras and OBS Studio. [and sorry, not being a user of RTSP, I can't advise on best approach for this]​
- the SMTAV manual references option of RTSP, RTMP, & RTMPS streaming using H.264, H.265, & MJPEG. Make sure your settings match across cameras. Assuming sticking to RTSP *If* all 4 of your cameras support both H.264 & H.265 over RTSP you may want to test with either. H.265 is more computationally intensive to encode at the camera, but sometimes vendors put more QA into newer codec than older ones... so video quality may vary due to diligence on firmware.​

well that plenty to get started
 
Last edited:

Anthony Miller

New Member
Nah, my advise is to stick to Ethernet and resolve the issue. I love having a single Ethernet cable, for control, video, and power per camera, and would NOT consider going back.
Though mixing camera Mfgs and potentially varying video latency is never great... but i get it. For budget reasons, our next NDI PoE PTZ camera not likely to be from same major name brand either.

Are these cameras models that don't support NDI? [type a bunch more, ... then go back and look up that camera SMTAV BA30N... that is NDI, right? so why using RTSP for them?
- though mixing RTSP for older cameras (if required) and NDI for new cameras would be its own issue {typically I'd advise sticking to same protocol... but maybe that won't work in this case?}... and NDI and OBS have their own challenges. I'm happy my PTZ vendor has a VirtualUSB driver that takes NDI video feed and converts to make it appear as local USB webcam... no NDI Tools or other hoop-jumping required to get video into OBS Studio for me]

As I've been saying for years, start with your sources OUTSIDE of OBS (ie OBS Studio not started/running at all)
Sorry, my PTZ camera experience is with an expensive $2K NDI PoE model. so, if my assumptions are incorrect, my apologies in advance
1. Do these have a web interface that you can log into each and confirm each camera is working?
2. I know you said you can control SMTAV BA30N via joystick controller... but that doesn't necessarily mean configured correctly for video output [some controllers have video display for selected camera, others don't.. depends]
3. You should be able to configure a simple viewer on OBS PC (vendor, VLC, or ??) and confirm each camera is sending RTSP stream (if that is your best option) and working individually.
- it may be possible to configure SMTAV cameras to do too much (NDI high compression, and 2 streams). If not using NDI, best to disable that stream (not sure what NDI Preset = Off means SMTAV manual, pg 39?)​
- presuming not using audio from cameras, you did disable Audio on them, right? As well as any other protocols, not needed​
4. if you disable the 1st 2, older cameras, do the newer SMTAVs video feeds now work in OBS?

... then comes the fun (for us who enjoy a challenge) of getting all four cameras working over network at same time...

- area all 4 cameras and OBS PC plugged into same Ethernet switch?
- have you monitored network switch to make sure it isn't overloaded or having problems (occasionally an issue with low-end (ex tp-link or similar) brands/models), or an ACL or other config causing a bottleneck?​
- assuming video confirmed sending on all 4 cameras at same time, how is bandwidth consumption? My NDI camera uses less than 30MB/s for 1080p60. 4 of those and you are getting close to gig network limits (1,000 mb/s = ~128MB/s)​
- you can disable extra camera video streams if not in use (or maybe go low-resolution stream for joystick controller?) to save on bandwidth​
- if bandwidth and network latency not a problem, and confirmed all 4 video signals reaching Operating System, then time to move onto OBS Studio processing signal
- be sure to monitor hardware resource utilization at Operating System level to make sure PC isn't overloaded​
- then there is making sure, if using RTSP for all 4 cameras, which version/dialect of RTSP is in use and find a common denominator for both cameras and OBS Studio. [and sorry, not being a user of RTSP, I can't advise on best approach for this]​
- the SMTAV manual references option of RTSP, RTMP, & RTMPS streaming using H.264, H.265, & MJPEG. Make sure your settings match across cameras. Assuming sticking to RTSP *If* all 4 of your cameras support both H.264 & H.265 over RTSP you may want to test with either. H.265 is more computationally intensive to encode at the camera, but sometimes vendors put more QA into newer codec than older ones... so video quality may vary due to diligence on firmware.​

well that plenty to get started
Thanks, Lawrence_SoCal: Yes that is plenty to start. I had wondered about the "N" in the Model BA30N, if it meant NDI as there was no Manual (though I will now download it). I have reached out to the Manufacturer as OBS compatibility is one of their claims.
Yes, I can reach the IP (10.1.10.103, one of the settings) from my Laptop and can control the menu as this is how I access and change IP to a closed network. I have the cameras at home trying to resolve the issue so the existing cameras as not as issue. I really do not want to send they back as I feel this should be a "simply" fix. I can't imagine this is an isolated issue.
Thanks...Anthony Miller_ NoCal
 

Lawrence_SoCal

Active Member
Yes, I can reach the IP (10.1.10.103, one of the settings) from my Laptop and can control the menu as this is how I access and change IP to a closed network.
That means you have network connectivity _to_ camera.
that does NOT mean you have the camera properly configured for sending/streaming video feed (via RTSP or whichever protocol/encoding desired/selected). Or that the video feed is then working as it should - those are completely different tests/troubleshooting
An analogy, *If* you are not all that familiar with this tech, I'd say logging onto camera and seeing video in browser is the equivalent in driving 1 way on a road. Your use case involves the video feed going in the other direction (other side of road/freeway)... and like traffic, ok in 1 direction doesn't mean ok in the other.
I have the cameras at home trying to resolve the issue so the existing cameras as not as issue. I really do not want to send they back as I feel this should be a "simply" fix. I can't imagine this is an isolated issue.
Not having a manual is a not-unexpected issue with these low-cost PTZ cameras, but may imply you haven't gone thru each and every setting page on the camera, understood the implications of the defaults/your selections, and configured for your specific scenario. And the manual will help some, but probably not completely [see NDI Preset... modern tech documentation can be so bad... poorly translated modern User Interfaces /manuals.. even worse].

Assuming having new cameras at home, I'd start with making sure you can get video stream from both cameras working. Whether you want to use VLC, OBS Studio, or ?? your pick... personally, I'd keep it very simple to start, and then layering on more complex options (like OBS Studio) ONLY after you confirm source is working as expected.
Then I'd check the other (older) cameras and their settings. It would probably make sense to first get something working, so stick to first camera settings on new cameras. Then, with older cameras off, see if 1 then both new cameras work on OBS PC (again, I'd work at OS layer, not OBS Studio, to start). There is always the chance that there isn't a perfect match on settings between old and new cameras. And in learning these settings (if new to you), you may find that changing (upgrading) settings on old cameras is desired... (obviously carefully documenting each and every change so you can back them out as needed).

Another consideration/possibility - that you do end up, for whatever reason, wanting/needing to use NDI on these new cameras. In that case, NDI may have lower latency than the cameras RTSP feed.. maybe. The difference may be small enough that it isn't an issue... or maybe not... be sure to check audio/video sync between old and new cameras to make sure you don't end up with 1 set of cameras being out of sync.
Another check I'd do is on lower-light sensitivity. Hopefully the newer cameras provide better video than older cameras (but.. by no means guaranteed)... in which case you may want to swap cameras around depending on typical area filmed
 
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