Camera low frame rate

[tripletopper]

When I have three cameras plus one video source I seem to notice that it only flows by one USB port.

How do I get three cameras plus one video source working together so that none of them stagger or jitter.

Would improving the internal bandwidth from One USB 3.0 bandwidth spread over 4 USB A ports worth of data in the ports to four Thunderbolt 3 ports worth the data be able to cure the hiccups on the video?

If so that would probably be the perfect solution.

If that's the solution to jittery cameras do it using a 2014 Mac Mini.

 

[Nass86]

I've experimented with similar results before.

Does your machine have an AMD graphics card in it, and if so are you encoding in x264 or Apple Hardware?

Also try and save your video source file in an uncompressed .AVI format (using something like Davinci Resolve)

If it is a compressed MOV or MP4 etc it gives the machine a harder job uncompressing and rendering it, which can cause stutter when you throw as much as this at it.

An uncompressed AVI will be much larger in file size but relieve pressure on the CPU.

Let me know about your GPU and i'll throw in some more suggestions.

 

[tripletopper]

May I know how to set the compression settings?

Should I use the software base or the hardware base compression?

Also my cameras are minoru cameras which is 640 by 480 by 30 frames by two eyes. And my capture card is one of those Amazon specials with HDMI in and USB out. It's a UVC capture device.

Also my internet sources from the cell phone and different USB connectors to the different cameras causes different problems.

I'm planning to screen "commando style" (pointing a cell phone at a computer monitor which contains the arranged information). This is because my cell phone has way better bandwidth than my home connection. Sometimes only one eye is seen, sometimes it causes stuttering video.

I would use hot spots except it's limited to 5 meg in 5 meg out and I need that for my Nintendo and Xbox.

And the only form of 3D I could do that doesn't require exact positioning of the briadcast camera for side by side is red and cyan anaglyph.

 

[tripletopper]

I've experimented with similar results before.

Does your machine have an AMD graphics card in it, and if so are you encoding in x264 or Apple Hardware?

Also try and save your video source file in an uncompressed .AVI format (using something like Davinci Resolve)

If it is a compressed MOV or MP4 etc it gives the machine a harder job uncompressing and rendering it, which can cause stutter when you throw as much as this at it.

An uncompressed AVI will be much larger in file size but relieve pressure on the CPU.

Let me know about your GPU and i'll throw in some more suggestions.

Also I don't capture my video. I twitch save my video on their servers and transit to YouTube for permanent dump. And if I were to capture my stream video I would use an external DVR like the Hauppauge rocket.

 

[tripletopper]

I got an Intel HD graphics 5000 1536 MB.

This is on a Mac mini 2014. I was considering upgrading to a Mac Mini 2018.

Also when I did red and cyan I noticed my video is clear and smooth because each capture is only a Luma capture with all the chroma information removed just by not capturing it.
Also consider the other strategies I mentioned.

 

[tripletopper]

Also you talked about external video sources. Are you talking about live camera and HDMI captures or you talking about pre-made videos that gets shown on certain occasions?

 

[Nass86]

OK mate try these settings that I have attached for you first and then work backwards until you get it working. I have a final solution which involves spending more money but will try to avoid that first.

Your CPU handles your graphics which means on top of running the whole system, isn't very powerful, but can work.

The ideal machine for OBS is Windows based and contains Nvidia graphics cards capable of NVENC. Doesn't have to be new, mine is a 2012 model. You are running 3 cameras via USB by the sounds of it, which is pushing it.

If you want your stream to be watchable you need to be running 720p minimum. On twitch you can get nice results with 1536 x 864 but youtube wants 720p or 1080p streaming.

To optimise the Mac to be ready for a stronger streaming performance there are some things you can do:
___

Extra tweaks for Mac that take up CPU / RAM
- Ensure everything else is closed ESPECIALLY Chrome.
- Remove items from the desktop and put them somewhere else, as the mac pre-loads them to a degree
- Remove as many Apps from the Dock, as the mac pre-loads these to a degree
- Shrink the OBS screen down so that the Preview video is much smaller but you can still see what you need (this uses up less CPU power)
- Remove your Recent Items (Apple logo top left corner, RECENT ITEMS, CLEAR MENU, as apple pre-loads these to a degree
- Take out anything on USB that is not needed. If you have a USB keyboard and mouse, and a bluetooth one, perhaps try the bluetooth ones to free up the USB slots.

Then go into every camera and change the setting on it to:

- resolution 1280x720p

- frame rate 30fps

- Colour Format 709 and Colour Range Partial.

- Change each Camera to Low Latency (instead of Normal Latency) and see if it works. Sometimes this makes it worse.

Note in the images for CPU Usage there are options such as VERY FAST, FASTER, and FAST - when you first encounter these options they might not make sense, so just know that VERY FAST is working the CPU harder, FASTER relieves it a little, and FAST can yield less jitters working the CPU less hard. I would imagine you need to use FASTER or FAST.

Upgrade options keeping the costs down
1. Keep the Mac you have, and buy a (used?) ATEM MINI or ATEM MINI PRO. Be aware you need cameras that output to HDMI on this as it it is a professional camera switcher. As far as I know an Atem Mini doesn't listen to USB webcams and stuff like that - it needs a DSLR or Mirrorless style camera with HDMI output. The switcher will take the strain of receiving the cameras and handling all of that information, and just send one signal to your iMac which will stream much better.
2. Buy a Windows laptop with Nvidia Nvenc graphics card (or find an old machine you have that happens to have Nvidia graphics). When you are gaming externally, some older machines combined with Nvidia perform exceptionally well like my Lenovo Thinkpad W540. Graphics cards found in old Dell / HP / Lenovo and similar laptops which work include Quattro K1100m, K1200m, K2000m, K2100m but there are many more. These cards outrun my iMac 2011 Intel I5 2.5ghz quad core with 16gb Ram and dedicated AMD Graphics and my Macbook Pro Mid 2015 Intel I7 with 16gb Ram and AMD Graphics.

I'm a bit of a believer that the iMacs work well when you have Atem Mini on them because they aren't doing the heavy lifting! Imacs with Intel graphics can also work well with one camera but 2 or 3 can be pushing it.

SETTINGS

 

[Nass86]

Premade videos that aren't uncompressed AVI seem to be stressing my machine out. As soon as I play MOV or MP4 or other file types that are compressed, my video jitters until the video has stopped playing.

If these are short burst videos you can save them as uncompressed AVI in Davinci Resolve - which will make the file massive - but give your CPU some needed breathing space and relief.

 

[Nass86]

Try all of that and next time, post a Log in here if you encounter problems

HELP > LOG FILE > UPLOAD CURRENT LOG FILE

 

[tripletopper]

A couple more things about my sitch:

Internet: best source is cell phone direct (hot spot with guaranteed unlimited 5 M in 5 M out, use second cell phone for "live capturing commando style"

Also I was doing simultaneous cameras.

If i have 3 simultaneous cameras. Like a face cam to talk. A hand cam to prove live gameplay, and a "less than 3 cam", a side profile for E10 snuggle purposes, would decicating an extremely low frames per second to the less than 3 cam gave me more frame power to do that

I noticed I could do 6 monochrome cameras (by setting color saturation to negative 100 percent) and animation is really smooth. Is full color that taxing?

Just dye the 3 lefts red, the 3 rights cyan and you have anaglyph 3d live stream.

I also noticed the smaller the selected capture resolution, the more FPS. I am capturing commando style so we are already playing hand grenades with the settings. 640x480 might be too much, but decreasing resolution makes it SD TV quality and I never griped about resolution in the 90s.

By the way we don't have to push this out on Twitch using computer or house internet bandwidth since we're using cellular internet and the commando style to capture the accumulated video organization.

I notice my Mac mini 2014 shows USB cameras dropping out and popping back in every so often. I've heard some people say it has four USB 3.0 ports, and I've heard others say that it has one USB 3.0 Port shared by four physical A ports. For the 2014 Mac Mini which of the two is it? And would upgrading to a 2018 Mac Mini with four Thunderbolt ports which could easily quickly become for USB 3.1 port be the solution to this because I can afford that now with trade in of two old computers plus a little cash for one new computer little cash?
It's going to cost me around $100 whether I buy the equipment you suggest or whether I just upgrade my computer.

If going up from a 2014 Mac Mini and selling an unneeded 2011 Mac Mini Plus a around $100 could get me a 2018 Mac Mini, you improve everything the processors the USB ports the total bandwidth used in those combinations. Sounds like that's like a smarter move then buying a camera switcher especially when I need simultaneous cameras.

 

[Nass86]

Yeah lowering framerate will give your comptuer more room to breathe.

I've had this issue with USB dropping out before. I never knew why but I think I have my suspicions now I've learned more. You could try the following:

Before streaming:
1. Turn off your machine and do an SMC Reset (google it)
2. When turning it back on, do a PRAM Reset (google it)
3. Always restart and do this procedure before you stream

Use a bluetooth mouse and keyboard to free up physical demands on ports.

For best results, though, Windows laptops with NVIDIA NVENC graphics cards are the way forward.

 

[tripletopper]

Also upgrading from a Mac Mini 2014 with one USB 3.0 shared among 4 A ports to a 2018 Mac Mini with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, each with 20 G one way or 10 G each way budorectionally.

Thubderbolt 3 > USB 3.0

Btw The 2018 mini is the last Intel Mac model. Intel > M1 , right?

I heard USB 3.0 was around 3 Gb/s and USB 2.0 is 480 Mb/s so around 6 USB 2.0 web cameras can fit in USB 3.0.

Also Just wondering if the advantage of thunderbolt 3 extension cords is worth buying them over USB 3.0 extension cords.

 

[Nass86]

What resolution are your cameras working on?

Someone else will know better than I do but I get the impression that port speed is almost certainly not your problem.

In my opinion, if a USB 2.0 connected camera is dropping out its because either the SMC needs reset, the PRAM needs reset. Macs drop camera connections sometimes when they have multiple cameras to deal with and I've only fixed it by restarting and doing SMC/PRAM reset.

USB 2 works fine on windows like this, especially at low resolutions like 720p or 1080p x 30fps! It gets challenging, if i remember correctly, at doing 1080p x 60 fps.

Try my process in the post above, before upgrading anything as you are probably not using the bandwidth to warrant the need for USB 3.

 

[stevecarty]

Also upgrading from a Mac Mini 2014 with one USB 3.0 shared among 4 A ports to a 2018 Mac Mini with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, each with 20 G one way or 10 G each way budorectionally.

Thubderbolt 3 > USB 3.0

Btw The 2018 mini is the last Intel Mac model. Intel > M1 , right?

I heard USB 3.0 was around 3 Gb/s and USB 2.0 is 480 Mb/s so around 6 USB 2.0 web cameras can fit in USB 3.0.

Also Just wondering if the advantage of thunderbolt 3 extension cords is worth buying them over USB 3.0 extension cords.

the 2018 model is NOT an M1 silicon Mac. they came out late 2020.
Development path[edit]
In October 2020, Apple began trial production of Apple M1 and conducted related tests.[8]

On November 11, 2020, Apple M1 was officially released.[9

I believe the first M1 Mac release was the M1 Mac mini which I got in July. anything pre 2020 is an intel based mini.

 

[tripletopper]

I know the 2018 Mac is the highest current Intel version. But it does have 4 Thinderbolt V3 ports.

I heard people are making an M1-optimized version of OBS. But fir good results right now, a 2018 Intel Mac Mini should be good.

An update: I added 3 more USB V3.0 ports with a Belkin Thunderbolt V2 Dock.

Apparently my animation is not clearer. So throwing more USB space at it will not help.

I'm trying to a 3 Camera plys game footage setup. I notice when I get to the third camera 2 of the cameras "stutter"

I heard there are different settings. And I can optimize it local TV Studio Commando Capture.

1) I don't need a recording of the stream i just use the Twitch to YouTube transfer. So Twitch is my live channel and Youtube as my pre-record/ archive channel if live stuff channel.

I don't need a local hard copy of the video. I don't even have to convert the video to a better-streamable format. My home bandwidth is 1.6 Mb/s in 400k out. But my cellular outbound is easily 10MB/s. I just point my cell phone at my Mac monitor, which holds all the shots, and do a Kina-stream. So whatever makes the video look best locally are the settings I want.

i told you what I give up anyway for the sake of my stream. Now i want to optimize my OBS for Kinecasting, (broadcasting a stream using a Kinescope stream, aka pointing a camera at a monitor and streaming that camera with no frills.) with no local recording.

any help in improving multi-cam animation?

 

[tripletopper]

What resolution are your cameras working on?

Someone else will know better than I do but I get the impression that port speed is almost certainly not your problem.

In my opinion, if a USB 2.0 connected camera is dropping out its because either the SMC needs reset, the PRAM needs reset. Macs drop camera connections sometimes when they have multiple cameras to deal with and I've only fixed it by restarting and doing SMC/PRAM reset.

USB 2 works fine on windows like this, especially at low resolutions like 720p or 1080p x 30fps! It gets challenging, if i remember correctly, at doing 1080p x 60 fps.

Try my process in the post above, before upgrading anything as you are probably not using the bandwidth to warrant the need for USB 3.

You call 720p60 low?!?

If I drop the resolution then I should be able to run more cameras at once.

The game footage is 720p60 at highest on X360. Xone, Wii U, Switch and PS3, 10 systems are line-doubled 240p using a Retrotink SCART2HDMI, and for around 13 systems, a Component, SVideo, or Composite (or RF channel 2/4 to Composite conversion via VCR) to HDMI by Retrotink 2x M Pro.

The reason why I use 720p is to have a clear pingless picture on a VGA CRT in HD.

So lowering the resolution should smooth the animation. Since these are partial screens within a 1080p single screen shot commando style, 640x480 will be extravagant for less than a quarter of the screen.

So I film in standard definition. That worked plenty well for a long time. It will just be "old fashioned".

Also if I shoot in B/W and convert 2 B/W cameras into one Anaglyph 3d stream what I spend on second eyes I should get back by removing color capture data.

All I need are game footage plus either 3 simultaneous color cameras or 6 simultaneous B/W cameras (or color cameras told to ignore chroma data)