Audio from mixer over WiFi to OBS

[EdK]

Hello,
Not quite sure if I'm posting my question in the correct forum so please tell me if I need to post elsewhere.

I am livestreaming a church service via OBS. The built-in microphones in the cameras are terrible.
I would like to be able to grab the audio from the PA system, transmit it over the church's WIFI network and receive the
audio in my Windows PC running OBS as the audio source for the livestream.
Unfortunately, the PC being used for livestreaming is nowhere near the PA system (Allen-Heath QU-16) so using a wired connection is out of the question.

Is there a device available that I can plug into the mixers Main Outs, send that audio into the churchs WIFI network and be able to receive the audio from the network into the PC being used by OBS? And how would I do this?

I know there are long range Bluetooth transmitters that can do this but the range is limited because the mixer is in another room and doesn't have line-of-sight to the PC.

Any ideas and help is much appreciated.

Thanks....Ed

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Could you do something like that - yes
will it most likely be awful - yup look into the issues of WiFi, shared usage, impact on jitter/latency, etc.

As health concerns mean having in-person (regular attendee) services is irresponsible in most cases, I have the PC in the middle of the sanctuary, along with lighting, tripod with webcam, etc. We had same issue with microphone, and now use our sound system. We are running a 75ft XLR audio cable/breakout box, with adapters at either end, to bring audio into PC
Once we are looking at hybrid service (in-person and remote viewers, most likely not until well into next year), I'll move the PC into the sound system closet. And then use the USB output from the mixer into the PC. Then I'll run a KVM (keyboard, video, mouse) extended cable setup (over a single Ethernet cable) to choir loft area which will be used as workstation area (plenty of spare room up their).

So, is an Ethernet /Internet cable near the PA system? Or, how much trouble would it be to get one there?
If Ethernet to PA system is viable, then a wired connection for you audio is NOT out of the question (and will be MUCH more reliable/stable, lower latency therefore less sync issues to address, etc).

Otherwise, and this isn't my area of expertise, so beware reliability of what I'm about to say: I'd consider interference challenges with WiFi, especially is sharing Access Point and frequency/channels with ANYONE/ANYTHING else (unless latest WiFi 6). How about a dedicated wireless audio transmitter on a different frequency range than WiFi (or any other ranges in use)? Just as you can have wireless microphones, you can use same basic idea to a transmitter connected to the sound panel output to a matching receiver, which you then have plugged into streaming computer (on the computer side, make sure you know what the computer has and the difference between TRS and TRRS when getting cable/adapter from receiver)

 

[EdK]

Thank you for the info. The WIFI in the church is an access point but the network is not being used by anything else when service is taking place. Only use is the livestream.

The sanctuary is basically shaped like a box and can seat 900-1000 people. In one corner closet the access point is located. In another corner, the PA system (in a closet) and in the 3rd corner, the computer in the sanctuary (by the organ pit).

There are two lines that run from the organ pit to the PA system under the floor (I'm assuming in conduit). One of the lines connects the mixer in the organ pit to the mixer in the PA closet. The other line is not being used. My initial thought was to simply swap the XLR connectors on the 2nd line and get an XLR to TRRS adapter to plug into the PC until I discovered that both lines are unsheilded!

I wish it was possible to run a separate XLR or ethernet line but there's no way to do that without crossing three aisles with foot traffic.

There is one wireless UHF receiver that's not being used for a wireless mic. Perhaps I can utilize it to do what I need as you suggested. I'll have to see if there is such a thing as a UHF transmitter that I can plug into the main mixer. Fortunately, it's an Allen-Heath QU-16 so I have many options.

Thanks! Ed

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Or check that conduit and see about adding shield cable(s)? hopefully a pull string was left in and conduit large enough. if not, you could use existing cables as pull string and install new shielded cables (and a shielded Ethernet CAT6a+)??

 

[EdK]

I'd love to be able to do that but it would be very difficult (actually impossible) at this time. The existing lines enter a wall (and I'm assuming a conduit) behind the organ console which is in a pit and there's no easy way to move the console. The floor underneath the organ console is carpeted (and it's not even tacked down) plus there's no room on either side to move it. The organ takes up all the room in the pit. Intelligent planning. That will have to wait until the organ is replaced which is at LEAST a couple years away. COVID has put that project on hold.

Just had an idea today after going there to think of alternatives. We have a few wireless mic receivers in the PA closet. One of them is not being used. The transmitter for it is a bodypack for a headworn mic. I'm thinking if I could more the wireless mic receiver to the organ pit and get an adapter for the bodypack so I can plug into the mixer instead of using the mic, that might work. Will have to try it tomorrow.

 

[wasdvd]

Using the wireless mic transmitter/receiver should give good quality. If that doesn;t work out, a similar concept is to use a wireless hearing assist receiver (getting its signal from the normal PA board), and, instead of the headset, plug the output of the hearing assist receiver into the OBS input.

 

[EdK]

Hi Wasdvd, Thanks for replying. I'll be trying that today. Had to order a couple cables/adapters. One to go from mixer into wireless transmitter and another to go from the receiver (XLR) into computer. Computer has a combo TRRS jack. I know an audio interface would be the better way to go but I can attenuate the signal coming out of the receiver. If that doesn't work, then will have to get the interface.

The church does not have a hearing assist system so hopefully the wireless mic tx/rx will work. I'll post my results

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

We had to do similar (long XLR wired instead of wireless) .. but still required an attenuation control box then cable with TRRS adapter
I look forward to hearing how it works out.

And if you haven't already, you may want to look up some of the techniques for synchronizing audio and video (as traversing different paths/latency). Though I haven't done so (so don't know if best) the one that looked promising was playing a video (on a laptop) with a short clap/noise with matching video indicator... point your camera and microphone at the video playback device/system (separate from OBS) and then watch/record. Then adjust audio delay in OBS to bring signals into synchronicity. I think I came across this suggestion (and link to a source video) on a YouTube tutorial

 

[EdK]

Thanks for the tip on the latency. I was wondering if I was going to experience any. Guess I'll find out after I get the audio clean.

 

[EdK]

I'm also working on another project with someone else to combine live (in studio) streaming with a small handful of captured 'Zoom' people that have to interact with each other.

 

[EdK]

Thought I'd just post with a quick update.
Using the wireless mic/receiver into the PC kind of works....I think.
I watched the stream on an iPad. Video is good. Audio on the other hand was echo-y and kind of had a flange to it. Spent about an hour trying to figure out why without any success however I did discover a couple things. The PC I'm using is a Lenovo laptop Ideapad S145. It has a single combo jack for mic/headphones. I'm not entirely sure if the audio I was listening to was coming from the wireless system into the combo jack or if it was the mic that's built-in to the bezel of the laptop.

Plugging a proper plug into the combo jack, Windows didn't display the usual popup you would expect to see. Also, poking around the sound settings or device manager didn't give me any clue either. Everything/anything that refers to a mic simply shows Realtek Audio Device. There's no indication if the mic it 'sees' is the laptops builtin mic or the combo jack and of course there's not enough info in OBS. I tapped on the builtin mic and could see the meters in OBS moving as well at the meters in Windows sound settings. I then disabled what I believe was the builtin mic. Tapped on the builtin mic and the meters moved but just barely. I also tapped on a mic in the PA system and result was the same (meters barely moved). I looked at the meters in the wireless receiver and they definitely moved a lot so I know I was getting a solid signal from the PA. So my next thought is- perhaps I need to adjust the output from the wireless receiver thinking maybe the laptop isn't getting enough signal. I was unable to check that today. Will do that tomorrow. But just thinking about it since, I don't know why the wireless receiver wouldn't be putting out much of a signal as it works just fine when it's used in the sound systems mixer.

Googling a bit tonight while at home and came across a couple interesting hits. Seems a lot of people have similar issues with the combo jack but in each case they are using a standard headset and there were many suggestions of updating drivers (will check on that tomorrow also).
Another interesting topic I came across is- if there is an HDMI device for external video attached (which I have), then the sound is routed out the HDMI and cuts off the combo jack. In a way, that kind of makes sense but what doesn't make sense is why the mic in the combo jack would be cutoff also. External video's don't (to the best of my knowledge) have builtin mics. Only speakers.

I'm also comparing sound setting in my personal laptop with what I remember seeing in the church laptop. Everything on my laptop makes sense but then, I don't have a combo jack. I have discrete mic and headphone jacks.

Will experiment more tomorrow but regardless, Windows sound settings (at least the descriptions of them) leave much to be desired.

 

[EdK]

Another update. Updated everything (Windows, Lenovo) and all drivers...direct from Realtek and other vendors involved. No change. I've come to the conclusion that Lenovo's Ideapad S145 is way to much of a budget laptop. I'm going to look into an external XLR to USB audio interface. Not going to waste more time with cables, adapters, etc. to try and utilize the TRRS combo jack. Also discovered the TRRS jack is not standardized. It's wired differently on Apple than on PC's and even some smartphones. Why can't vendors keep things simple and standardized? Now just need to hope that the Lenovo won't have a problem with an external audio interface.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

For me, I ran into audio issues as I hadn't disabled all of the desktop/default audio interfaces in OBS Settings, then in a scene/source add only the desired Audio Input

As for audio level, the wireless receiver output, if meant for a headset, may be putting out less signal than laptop expecting for signal input (is it thinking Line In, or Microphone in? or ??). Oh, and yes on join of multiple TRS/TRRS config 'standards'... of course Apple being Apple...
Some computers have option to handle both TRS and TRRS input, and adjust between them (my Dell Precision laptop, and Optiplex desktop both have this ability)... so yea, not simple, and cheap chinese adapters are the most reliable thing to work with...

And, have you tried plugging a headset/earplug/whatever into wireless receiver output and confirming signal? does your wireless receiver have its own volume setting? was it at max?

Again, if an option, basic troubleshooting... take laptop and try and get audio cable & adapters to work work with something else (old iPod, smartphone, CD player, etc)... something that would use same cable you are using from wireless receiver... ie bypass wireless part until you figure out settings/required levels.

 

[EdK]

Thanks Lawrence for your reply.
The wireless receiver I'm using is a Sennheiser 100 G4. It was being used at one time for a bodypack/headset. All I did to the bodypack is replace the headset with an XLR cable and taking a submix out of the Allen-Heath QU-16 mixer so I can send that signal to where the computer for OBS is located (and the Sennheiser receiver). Figuring that would be much more reliable than long-range Bluetooth since I can't run an XLR cable. But yes, I know I'm getting good output from the receiver (tested it via it's headphone jack). I also have lots of control over how much signal it puts out (line level or mic level and pretty much everything in between). Therefore the Lenovo should have accepted it like a standard headset mic. What I didn't do is attach a headphone to the XLR>TRRS cable so maybe the laptop recognized there was no headphone in the TRRS jack itself and didn't activate the mic side but I doubt that. I know the TRRS jack in the laptop is good as I try a headset (with mic) and it worked. I'm nearly 100% certain it was the cable itself. It's marketed as being compatible with iPhones, Smartphones, etc. but as you know, Apple expects the mic to be in the 'sleeve' whereas other devices expect the sleeve to be ground. I did try it on my iPad and it worked there. Didn't have an Android phone or other device to try it. It's no fun dealing with a budget laptop. Regardless, I wish all laptops had NOT removed descrete mic/headphone jacks.
I have a 10 year old Dell Latititde at home and the only thing I wish it had on it was an HDMI port and new USB port.

I'm currently looking into external audiio interfaces. Nearly all that are reasonably priced (1 or 2 input channels) and under $200 are pretty much sold out everywhere. I guess that's to be expected with nearly everyone wanting/needing to livestreme becaus of COVID.

 

[Lawrence_SoCal]

Yea, I spent a few hours recently researching TRRS and related. interesting... but not fun
For us, we have the XLR 75' snake and breakout box, to an adjustable attenuator box then using a dual RCA to TRS cable (which works as a line-in on PC). [Fortunately all stuff we already had from events with bell choir a year or two ago]
We thought we needed a TRRS adapter for streaming PC, but ended up being okay without. Fortunately, we have a member who used to DJ on the side and is REALLY experienced with audio cabling. We spent over a hour finding a setup that worked
However for pre-recording music (Hymns, Psalms, prelude/postlude,etc) from small (4 & 8 channel) sound panel to smartphone, we benefited immensely from using a TRRS adapter (and dealing with mix of Android phones/tablets, and iOS phones and tablets; some without audio jacks, but iPad Pro's with, etc). to enable direct connection from a small sound-panel connecting a couple of XLR microphones at a distance for Hymn duets (and balancing pipe organ) .. singers from different households but separated to not be a problem. We had started with the built-in phone microphone, and it was ok... but far from ideal. Music quality, now being hard-wired into video recording device, is so much better now

 

[EdK]

Sounds like you've got a handle on it.

 

[Lee_Bo]

TRRS can be a PITA but I understand why it's needed. I was called in to troubleshoot an audio issue with a live stream. Long story short, all that was needed was a TRS-TRRS adapter between the audio cable and the microphone. $7 Amazon item and sound it 1000% better.