936p vs 1080p

[equalf]

Hello, i just wanted to clarify whats the 936p madness and why it is better to stream at it than 1080p. I use full 6k bitrate as affiliate and stream at 1080p 30fps NVENC. Honestly even on high motion games such as COD Warzone the stream is fine, yes i would love to have 60 fps too but i stream and game in the same pc so i prefer quality over fps on stream. In my eyes 1080p 30 fps looks better than 936p 30 fps but some of you guys know better as your answers are often on point ( although the psycho visual tunning thing still messes with my head, i have read 30+ posts and answers!).
Just to mention i got no problems on my stream or obs just for literature!

936p https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1527777653

1080p https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1526065078

If it is not the right place for this post please move it where it belongs!!

 

[TryHD]

depends, is 1080p your native display resolution?

 

[SPC_0828]

Hello.
The reason why most Twitch distributors prefer 936p is because the available bitrate is up to 6k.

Since you are on the 30fps setting, you are not wrong that 1080p is better than 936p.
But in general, most distributors use 60fps.
Since 1080p/60fps requires a bitrate of about 8k, under 60fps and a bitrate of up to 6k, block noise will be noticeable when there is a lot of video movement.
On the other hand, at 936p/60fps, 6k bitrate is a sufficient amount of bitrate. And the multiple of 8 for 16:9 is a condition that can reduce block noise.
Most people are 1080p in full screen, but 936p is the pixel setting that will clean up best for video with a lot of motion under 6k bitrate conditions.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[equalf]

depends, is 1080p your native display resolution?

yes it is!

Hello.
The reason why most Twitch distributors prefer 936p is because the available bitrate is up to 6k.

Since you are on the 30fps setting, you are not wrong that 1080p is better than 936p.
But in general, most distributors use 60fps.
Since 1080p/60fps requires a bitrate of about 8k, under 60fps and a bitrate of up to 6k, block noise will be noticeable when there is a lot of video movement.
On the other hand, at 936p/60fps, 6k bitrate is a sufficient amount of bitrate. And the multiple of 8 for 16:9 is a condition that can reduce block noise.
Most people are 1080p in full screen, but 936p is the pixel setting that will clean up best for video with a lot of motion under 6k bitrate conditions.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

yes i totally understand that, at 60 fps 936 seems the deal! thats why i mentioned 30 fps, i think 6k is enough for 1080 30fps with no issues, not that 936p looks bad in any means!

 

[SPC_0828]

yes it is!

yes i totally understand that, at 60 fps 936 seems the deal! thats why i mentioned 30 fps, i think 6k is enough for 1080 30fps with no issues, not that 936p looks bad in any means!

Sorry, I don't think I understand your mention well.

I think the following this, how does it differ from yours?

For video on high motion at "30 fps",
1080p is better than 936p.
For video on high motion at "60 fps",
936p is better than 1080p.

 

[equalf]

Sorry, I don't think I understand your mention well.

I think the following this, how does it differ from yours?

For video on high motion at "30 fps",
1080p is better than 936p.
For video on high motion at "60 fps",
936p is better than 1080p.

yes thats what i meant!

 

[TryHD]

yes it is!

Than stay at 1080p with 8000 kbps bitrate. Most go with 936p or 864p because they have displays with higher resolutions like 2560x1440 or 3840x2160 and have to scale anyway (scaling is always a quality reduction).
But please be aware that just dropping the fps from 60 to 30 does not mean that you will need half the bitrate, also it doesn't matter if you have a fresh twitch account or beeing afliate or partner, they all have the same bandwidth limit of a total 8500kbps (so you can safely stream with 8000 set in OBS).

 

[FerretBomb]

You'll also lose a significant amount of clarity and quality downsampling to a pulled-out-of-someone's-ass resolution like 936/864. Much the same as those proponents of streaming at 48fps (also pulled from someone's ass, likely just taking the historic 24fps cinematic rate and doubling it).

Best-case is streaming at native resolution. Even if this means playing at a lower-than-preferred resolution on the streamer's end.
Second-best is streaming at a full-integer downscale (720p from 1440p at 2:1, 1080 or 720 from 2160 at 2:1 or 3:1).

The minor encoder-friendliness gains from 'evenly divisible by 8' mid-resolution theorycrafting is not going to override the sharp quality loss from the non-integer downscale needed to get there. 1080 and 720 are both divisible by 8 to begin with; it's more an argument against streaming at 1600x900 than in favor of a mauled hackjob crapped out somewhere in the middle.
UNLESS you run your game at 936/864 and are at that point streaming it at native-res.

 

[equalf]

You'll also lose a significant amount of clarity and quality downsampling to a pulled-out-of-someone's-ass resolution like 936/864. Much the same as those proponents of streaming at 48fps (also pulled from someone's ass, likely just taking the historic 24fps cinematic rate and doubling it).

Best-case is streaming at native resolution. Even if this means playing at a lower-than-preferred resolution on the streamer's end.
Second-best is streaming at a full-integer downscale (720p from 1440p at 2:1, 1080 or 720 from 2160 at 2:1 or 3:1).

The minor encoder-friendliness gains from 'evenly divisible by 8' mid-resolution theorycrafting is not going to override the sharp quality loss from the non-integer downscale needed to get there. 1080 and 720 are both divisible by 8 to begin with; it's more an argument against streaming at 1600x900 than in favor of a mauled hackjob crapped out somewhere in the middle.
UNLESS you run your game at 936/864 and are at that point streaming it at native-res.

i was hoping to get a reply from you mate, you are the main source of info i have for obs. like the max quality-quality, psycho tunning and look ahead staff etc. i find that 1080p 30 fps at 6k bitrate is perfectly fine for me at least, playing and streaming in native 1080p.

 

[Harold]

You do need to also keep in mind that a VERY large percentage of your viewers are going to be running the player for twitch in a viewport that is far closer to 720p. Even the smaller in-between resolutions are still effectively throwing away quality because of this.

 

[equalf]

You do need to also keep in mind that a VERY large percentage of your viewers are going to be running the player for twitch in a viewport that is far closer to 720p. Even the smaller in-between resolutions are still effectively throwing away quality because of this.

yes i am aware of this ofcourse, i mean you gotta do what you gotta do right? you lose some you win some, we can't please everyone! plus i like the 1080p cause i extract many clips for platforms like tiktok or instagram and youtube so it fits nicely!

 

[FerretBomb]

i was hoping to get a reply from you mate, you are the main source of info i have for obs. like the max quality-quality, psycho tunning and look ahead staff etc. i find that 1080p 30 fps at 6k bitrate is perfectly fine for me at least, playing and streaming in native 1080p.

Happy to help where I can. :)
Yeah, if it's strictly a question of 936p60@6mbps vs native 1080p30@6mbps, I'd personally agree with going native 1080p30. The quality loss from the downscale would bug me more than anything. Playing at 30 vs 60 is very different than streaming at 30 vs 60.

And while it's not what was asked, removing that fixed 6mbps point is something I also advise reviewing. Without guaranteed transcodes, it limits your potential viewership if you intend to grow. Even for those who do the start/stop-if-no-transcodes/restart dance, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that distant video delivery servers will replicate the transcoded streams. Keeping the source bitrate low can help ensure maximum accessibility, which is one of THE most important aspects when you're trying to grow. More possible eyes means more potential retention.

You do need to also keep in mind that a VERY large percentage of your viewers are going to be running the player for twitch in a viewport that is far closer to 720p. Even the smaller in-between resolutions are still effectively throwing away quality because of this.

Also very accurate.
It's one reason that if I was starting out a channel right now, today, I would be running at 720p30 at between 2000-2500kbps. Those who don't fullscreen won't see any improvement from a higher res, and so long as the framerate pacing is smooth, 30fps isn't an unbearable downgrade without being side-by-side (aside from retro-games that use sprite blitting for transparency).

For YouTube and other platform re-edits, I'd do a second full-res full-rate local recording. If you have NVENC, it's almost zero extra load, and without having to constrain for the network (and viewer-network) bottleneck(s) can avoid all artifacting with CQP. Heck, with Source Record you could do a clean gameplay-only recording too, since nVidia increased the max number of concurrent NVENC sessions to 3.

 

[equalf]

Happy to help where I can. :)
Yeah, if it's strictly a question of 936p60@6mbps vs native 1080p30@6mbps, I'd personally agree with going native 1080p30. The quality loss from the downscale would bug me more than anything. Playing at 30 vs 60 is very different than streaming at 30 vs 60.

And while it's not what was asked, removing that fixed 6mbps point is something I also advise reviewing. Without guaranteed transcodes, it limits your potential viewership if you intend to grow. Even for those who do the start/stop-if-no-transcodes/restart dance, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that distant video delivery servers will replicate the transcoded streams. Keeping the source bitrate low can help ensure maximum accessibility, which is one of THE most important aspects when you're trying to grow. More possible eyes means more potential retention.


Also very accurate.
It's one reason that if I was starting out a channel right now, today, I would be running at 720p30 at between 2000-2500kbps. Those who don't fullscreen won't see any improvement from a higher res, and so long as the framerate pacing is smooth, 30fps isn't an unbearable downgrade without being side-by-side (aside from retro-games that use sprite blitting for transparency).

For YouTube and other platform re-edits, I'd do a second full-res full-rate local recording. If you have NVENC, it's almost zero extra load, and without having to constrain for the network (and viewer-network) bottleneck(s) can avoid all artifacting with CQP. Heck, with Source Record you could do a clean gameplay-only recording too, since nVidia increased the max number of concurrent NVENC sessions to 3.

thanx i will consider the +1 local recording full throtle advise! thanx a lot mate!

 

[equalf]

You do need to also keep in mind that a VERY large percentage of your viewers are going to be running the player for twitch in a viewport that is far closer to 720p. Even the smaller in-between resolutions are still effectively throwing away quality because of this.

yes i am starting to think 720p 60 fps is not as bad as i think, still prefer the 1080 crisp stream but 720p is a win/win i think.

 

[equalf]

Happy to help where I can. :)
Yeah, if it's strictly a question of 936p60@6mbps vs native 1080p30@6mbps, I'd personally agree with going native 1080p30. The quality loss from the downscale would bug me more than anything. Playing at 30 vs 60 is very different than streaming at 30 vs 60.

And while it's not what was asked, removing that fixed 6mbps point is something I also advise reviewing. Without guaranteed transcodes, it limits your potential viewership if you intend to grow. Even for those who do the start/stop-if-no-transcodes/restart dance, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that distant video delivery servers will replicate the transcoded streams. Keeping the source bitrate low can help ensure maximum accessibility, which is one of THE most important aspects when you're trying to grow. More possible eyes means more potential retention.


Also very accurate.
It's one reason that if I was starting out a channel right now, today, I would be running at 720p30 at between 2000-2500kbps. Those who don't fullscreen won't see any improvement from a higher res, and so long as the framerate pacing is smooth, 30fps isn't an unbearable downgrade without being side-by-side (aside from retro-games that use sprite blitting for transparency).

For YouTube and other platform re-edits, I'd do a second full-res full-rate local recording. If you have NVENC, it's almost zero extra load, and without having to constrain for the network (and viewer-network) bottleneck(s) can avoid all artifacting with CQP. Heck, with Source Record you could do a clean gameplay-only recording too, since nVidia increased the max number of concurrent NVENC sessions to 3.

i just tried your suggestion of using local recordings with CQP on 1080p 60fps and i was very much impressed! I am thinking on switching to 720 60fps for streaming while recording 1080 on CQP as you mentioned! Reaching a wider audience while keeping a steady 720 60fps sounds like a win/win. and then croping the highlights from the recorded video is also win. Should i enable any other settings like look ahead or psycho tuning or more b frames for my recordings only or keep it off like streaming settings?

 

[FerretBomb]

i just tried your suggestion of using local recordings with CQP on 1080p 60fps and i was very much impressed! I am thinking on switching to 720 60fps for streaming while recording 1080 on CQP as you mentioned! Reaching a wider audience while keeping a steady 720 60fps sounds like a win/win. and then croping the highlights from the recorded video is also win. Should i enable any other settings like look ahead or psycho tuning or more b frames for my recordings only or keep it off like streaming settings?

I would keep it to the streaming settings. Lookahead/PVT both can cause Encoder Overloaded errors, along with the Max Quality preset (use the Quality preset instead). B-frames can help slightly, but generally leaving it set at 2 should be good for all kinds of media. It isn't worth screwing around with for the minimal gain it might provide.

 

[PWNhub]

i was hoping to get a reply from you mate, you are the main source of info i have for obs. like the max quality-quality, psycho tunning and look ahead staff etc. i find that 1080p 30 fps at 6k bitrate is perfectly fine for me at least, playing and streaming in native 1080p.

No offense but you were waiting for someone who just legit made everything he said up on the spot and said it with arrogance to sound as if he had a clue. The real reason people stream 936p is you cannot get high enough bitrate for 1080p before Twitch's hard cap. When you do the math 1664x936p is the max theoretical quality from common encoders at 6000Kbps that twitch supports.

Other reasons some people use 936p is because they have low upload bandwidth and want highest resolution + lowest bitrate which again comes out to about 1664x936p and you can get away roughly 5000Kbps.

Encoders do not struggle with low resolutions on modern hardware. I'll start insulting everyone later if that's what it takes for the forum viewers to believe people but this nonsense has got to stop. These same people tell you stories from 15+ years ago they never encountered in their life as facts of the modern era and it's just lunacy at this point.

Make sure you turn off hardware acceleration on everything too just like 2012.