Question / Help 709 vs 601

[jhsxy2005]

picture from http://the9thday.net/download.php

use two picture, because the color is different.

....

which environment the color of 709 close original color ?

maybe 709 is better than 601, but now the color of 601 close original color.

meybe edge of 709 is better～

 

[Suslik V]

What's confusing you? 709 and 601 it is just standards names. You can try test charts and videos from this link: OBS Studio: Color Space, Color Format, Color Range settings Guide. Test charts. to adjust your equipment.

 

[jhsxy2005]

What's confusing you? 709 and 601 it is just standards names. You can try test charts and videos from this link: OBS Studio: Color Space, Color Format, Color Range settings Guide. Test charts. to adjust your equipment.

good job,I test it too,but I do not konw how to work.

http://www.bilibili.com/video/av8879352/
http://www.bilibili.com/video/av5829836/

now I choose 601 tv , before I use 601 pc , the other day I found pc color can not good support by aviutl and avs edit , I am obsession , test again it two days , aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa~

now I give up pc color........................

if I have a powerful CPU , maybe I choose libx264grb~ , now only strong hardware is GTX1060 , I use it REC lossless vedio , even NV12 601 tv can not get lossless frame

I have download your test file ,and refer it~ thank you!

 

[Suslik V]

You can output RGB in Output Mode: Simple, Recording Quality: Lossless Quality;
and don't forget to specify in Advanced settings Color Format: RGB.

If you are looking for max settings with x264: Output Mode: Advanced;
at Recording tab set Rate Control: CRF, CRF: 0;
then try to specify in Advanced settings Color Format: I444, YUV Color Range: Full.
This is max settings for Studio's x264 recordings.

Spoiler: YUV Color Space setting

For x264 output, the YUV Color Space setting depends on your target device, i.e. where exactly you want to display decoded video - the device may has (or hasn't) support of chosen color standard.

For Recording Quality: Lossless Quality (aka RGB) the YUV Color Space setting never used (no RGB-->YUV conversion).

The OBS Studio streaming forces NV12 use (i.e. RGB-->YUV conversion present).

And make sure that you be able to edit and view such footage in the right way...

 

[jhsxy2005]

1. 709 green most, not found support right color decoder, maybe color is wrong when REC. if
   
2. I search avisynth PC->TV, but the result is bad.

REC tv #> avs to x264 input range pc(evil ways)# > avs coloryuv(levels=PC->TV) > SmoothLevels(preset="pc2tv")

only contrast REC quality, 709 green color is unsolvable, PC can't edit and play support.

TV is suitable, but I am unhappy (,,•́ . •̀,,)

 

[Suslik V]

Please, post the script sample (from AviSynth v2.60). Especially the part where you import your video sources to AviSynth.

And again, the media players that you are using may display the videos in the wrong way.

Anyway, lossless (or close to lossless) quality is not suitable for everyday use. Indistinguishable Quality of the Output Mode: Simple in OBS Studio - is a good choice.

 

[wallrik]

Actually, in my opinion you don't really need to test much. Depending on your output resolution you should choose the standard color profile for that resolution.
Standard definition: BT.601
High-definition (720p/1080p): BT.709
Ultra-high-definition (4K/8K): BT.2020 (not available in OBS)

Everything uploaded to YouTube will be converted to BT.709, so keep that in mind if you use OBS for that.
But last time I checked I remember that Firefox always displays BT.601. I think some other browsers have had this issue as well.

OBS used to have 709 set as default, but Jim changed it to 601 a while ago because of stupid decoders :P

But I would personally still recommend 709 to anyone asking.

 

[jhsxy2005]

Please, post the script sample (from AviSynth v2.60). Especially the part where you import your video sources to AviSynth.

And again, the media players that you are using may display the videos in the wrong way.

Anyway, lossless (or close to lossless) quality is not suitable for everyday use. Indistinguishable Quality of the Output Mode: Simple in OBS Studio - is a good choice.

I REC on ubuntu, color is green too, but I use avs do:ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601"), color is normal....? but loss more color!

Original

601tv

709tv

709tv->601tv ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601")

709tv->601tv subtract Original

Last edited: Today at 1:38 AM

===================================

2017-3-3 14:26 beijing china

I found bilibili flash player maybe changed, use resolution ratio to set color space, because I found 709 display right first, but this time 601 is can not display right～

http://www.bilibili.com/video/av8904420/

about html5, firefox youtobe stream bilibili, displayer the same result, space and range maybe set 601 tv, only 601 tv display right.

I have some thing at later, so later and later, test more.

 

[Suslik V]

Where is your AviSynth script?

 

[jhsxy2005]

Where is your AviSynth script?

the same part:
LoadPlugin("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\app\xw\tools\avs\plugins\ffms2.dll")
FFVideoSource("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\Videos\test\709q.mp4")

color:
LoadPlugin("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\app\xw\tools\avs\plugins\SmoothAdjust.dll")
SmoothLevels(preset="pc2tv")

ColorYUV(levels="PC->TV")

LoadPlugin("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\app\xw\tools\avs\plugins\ColorMatrix.dll")
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601")

 

[Suslik V]

1. Remove all color and range conversions from the script.

2. Change the

LoadPlugin("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\app\xw\tools\avs\plugins\ffms2.dll")
FFVideoSource("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\Videos\test\709q.mp4")

to this:

LoadPlugin("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\app\xw\tools\avs\plugins\ffms2.dll")
FFVideoSource ("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\Videos\test\709q.mp4", colorspace = "RGB24")

3. ...and make sure that all filters that you are using in AviSynth compatible with RGB24 format.

Spoiler: Few words on mp4 test files from the Color guide

Try to import the videos from the Color guide tests (see link few posts above), the 1920x1080_444_709_pc_10sec+10sec.mp4 filename from the guide means that the video encoded using next OBS Studio settings:

Color Format I444
YUV Color Space 709
YUV Color Range Full

Output encoding quality settings was set at (Output Mode: Advanced, Recording tab):

Control Rate CRF
CRF 23 (the max setting or maximum quality is "0"; the min or minimum quality is "51")

Also, right import possible with DirectShowSource (via ffdshow and haali splitter for old systems, like XP).
Look for FFMS2.avsi script and place it to AviSynth plugins folder to be able to use "FFInfo" in your scripts. Sometimes it has useful info to print it onscreen.

 

[jhsxy2005]

...

I use ffmpeg printscreen, found it best, which printscreen is better than ffmpeg?

ffmpeg can right output 709, I think ffplay can do it too, but is not～

 

[Suslik V]

The way you are looking at the decoded image is not always right. AviSynth handles video format right, but your system unable to show it to you in the right way. That's why I recommended to you to convert video into RBG24 format:

FFVideoSource ("F:\Users\jhsxy2005\Videos\test\709q.mp4", colorspace = "RGB24")

- almost all systems can show it (RGB24) in the right way.

If you think that any video format on your system shows right, then you are wrong. If you had used "FFInfo" or any other info, and still unable to view the video right - that means your system not adjusted to work with color or you doing something wrong. It is not OBS Studio or AviSynth fault.

 

[jhsxy2005]

I finish reading: OBS Studio: Color Space, Color Format, Color Range settings Guide. Test charts.
It is very good job , now I know that, I am dalao too <(￣︶￣)> , ranbingluan (๑•́ ₃ •̀๑)


youtube, steam, play video with html5 play, but html5 color by 601tv, firefox and bilibili is that.

bilibili flash video player can read flag like info: --range tv --colorprim bt709 --transfer bt709 --colormatrix bt709,
and paly video use right flag info.


player is turn YUV to RBG display ? like bilibili flash player, 709pc green is good, but bule is worse than 601pc. encode loss or decode loss ?

 

[Suslik V]

Yes, most players handle conversions from YUV to RGB (but if it uses hardware acceleration, then this job can be done by video card).

The "loss" by encode is not significant, but detail loss is present - you can see it when video is decoded, it depends on subsamling (4:2:0) and standard (709 or 601). If you don't like blue from your videos try other playback options (other player, other browser, try to switch off hardware acceleration, try other decoder etc.) until you'll see the test videos without distortion. True playback of the 4:2:0 BT.709 videos has detail loss in green, while 4:2:0 BT.601 - in cyan.
Anyway, this is synthetic tests. Detail loss for images from real life almost unnoticeable.

About web service.
Try to upload test videos to the web service and playback it 1:1 size.
To test playback colors of the 4:2:0 videos you can use Encoding Matrix coefficients detection test from the test charts (it always shows the matrix that was used during encoding) + Color bars.
For example, if you upload test videos to OBS Studio itself via 'Media Source' or 'VLC Video Source' then you'll see that both this sources uploads videos as BT.601.

And "encode loss or decode loss?" is not correct question - either you are feeding web service with unsupported video data (wrong color standard, range etc.) or viewing result with wrong hardware/software. Also, bugs possible in both... Try to contact web service's support for details.

Edit: One more thing I miss, it is the playback device (monitor) - maybe you have modern BT.2020 compatible device (10 and more bits per channel native support)? If so, the charts may not work for you.