Question / Help Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting viewer

[podonnell]

Hello,

I currently stream at 720p/30fps.

I am looking to upgrade to 720p/60fps without hurting my viewers. What is the best way to do this without sacrificing too much quality?

Here are my current settings:

Currently recording at 1080p and downscaling to 720p, with 'bilinear' filter.

What is the best recommended 720/30 settings?

Thank you!!

 

[dodgepong]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

First, use AAC, not MP3. It is better quality for the same bit rate.

Next, enable CBR. CBR will keep your bandwidth usage more constant, which is better for viewers.

Depending on the game and your upload bandwidth, you will probably want to increase your bit rate to a point that you are alright with, but not above 3500.

 

[podonnell]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

First, use AAC, not MP3. It is better quality for the same bit rate.

Next, enable CBR. CBR will keep your bandwidth usage more constant, which is better for viewers.

Depending on the game and your upload bandwidth, you will probably want to increase your bit rate to a point that you are alright with, but not above 3500.

Thanks! Enabled AAC and CBR. The higher I go with my max bitrate, the more it hurts my viewers though, right? As far as my upload speed, I believe I have 25mb, so I've got plenty to spare.

Thanks!!

 

[dodgepong]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

The higher you raise your bit rate, the more demand on your viewers download bandwidth there will be. You'll have to find your own balance between bit rate quality and viewer viewability. You'll need to experiment to determine for yourself what the lowest bit rate is that you can stand in terms of quality.

If you have the CPU to spare, you can try bumping your x264 preset to faster for a small increase in quality at the same bit rate.

 

[podonnell]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

The higher you raise your bit rate, the more demand on your viewers download bandwidth there will be. You'll have to find your own balance between bit rate quality and viewer viewability. You'll need to experiment to determine for yourself what the lowest bit rate is that you can stand in terms of quality.

If you have the CPU to spare, you can try bumping your x264 preset to faster for a small increase in quality at the same bit rate.

Is there any type of formula that could give me a good idea of how much I'd need to increase my bitrate to match the quality I have for 30fps? I would be sending double the frames, but that wouldn't mean I would need to double my bitrate, would it?

 

[dodgepong]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

It's double the frames, but less information per frame. I don't have a formula for you, unfortunately. You'll just have to experiment.

Experimentation and testing is the name of the game with streaming. It is not an exact science.

 

[podonnell]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

No worries. Thanks for the help! I will start experimenting.

 

[FerretBomb]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

Also, run the 6MB test at http://testmy.net/upload as many ISPs rate based on 'dead file' transfer speeds, which can spike and drop (burst) without harm as it averages out in the end.

Livestreaming and game network communication, however, require a constant throughput. So you might have a connection with 5mbps upload (marketing), Speedtest (tests dead-file transfers) shows you get 5mbps... but your actual constant throughput is only 1.4mbps. (When transferring a dead file, you might transfer most of it at 1.4mbps, and occasionally spike to 10 or 20mbps)

So you'll need to get your baseline rate from testmy, set aside a chunk of it for your game's bandwidth needs (and any VoIP calling you may do), then another chunk for your audio (definitely use AAC by the way! SO much better than MP3, and sounds good even at drastically lower bitrates), and finally whatever's left for your streaming bitrate.

I stream 720p@60 on 2500kbps, with testmy showing my connection fluctuating between 2.8 and 3.2mbps depending on the time of day I run the test (upstream network congestion CAN hurt you!). Looks great on low-motion games... high motion (FPSes) will require more to look good though.

 

[podonnell]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

Also, run the 6MB test at http://testmy.net/upload as many ISPs rate based on 'dead file' transfer speeds, which can spike and drop (burst) without harm as it averages out in the end.

Livestreaming and game network communication, however, require a constant throughput. So you might have a connection with 5mbps upload (marketing), Speedtest (tests dead-file transfers) shows you get 5mbps... but your actual constant throughput is only 1.4mbps. (When transferring a dead file, you might transfer most of it at 1.4mbps, and occasionally spike to 10 or 20mbps)

So you'll need to get your baseline rate from testmy, set aside a chunk of it for your game's bandwidth needs (and any VoIP calling you may do), then another chunk for your audio (definitely use AAC by the way! SO much better than MP3, and sounds good even at drastically lower bitrates), and finally whatever's left for your streaming bitrate.

I stream 720p@60 on 2500kbps, with testmy showing my connection fluctuating between 2.8 and 3.2mbps depending on the time of day I run the test (upstream network congestion CAN hurt you!). Looks great on low-motion games... high motion (FPSes) will require more to look good though.

Thanks! Totally follow you, makes sense. Going to save this tool for the future.

My results:
Upload :: 10.6 Mbps 1.3 MB/s

I assume that means I should be able to handle anything up to the highest recommended 3500kbps?
I have some viewers with low down speeds, so I'll probably keep it around 2800 if possible.

Also, I noticed that enabling CBR disabled my Quality Balance selector.
How is my quality balance determined with CBR on?

Thanks!

 

[dodgepong]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

Yes, you should be able to handle 3500 bit rate.

There is no Quality Balance when using CBR because it is a different kind of quality targeting. CBR does what it can to keep bit rate constant, while VBR (which is what it is when not using CBR) will use a lot or a little bit of bitrate as it sees fit, and uses the quality balance (constant rate factor, or CRF) to determine how to allocate those bits in terms of quality.

CBR will result is a slight degradation of quality, but will make you stream a lot easier to watch for viewers, because VBR streams tend to spike bandwidth usage all the time, which causes lagging/stuttering for some viewers.

 

[willll162904]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

i believe you should never up ur bit over 3k. ive seen some people run a 3500 stream and i can watch fine with 60 down but even at 3k some viewers with terrible internet will start having issues.

 

[podonnell]

Re: Would like to upgrade stream to 60fps without hurting vi

i believe you should never up ur bit over 3k. ive seen some people run a 3500 stream and i can watch fine with 60 down but even at 3k some viewers with terrible internet will start having issues.

Agreed. 2500 was great, but if i really want to do 60fps i need to get closer to 3000. I'm going to try and stick around 2800.