Question / Help Best Mac for streaming?

PhilEy

New Member
Dear OBS community,

my name is Philipp and since few weeks I'm working as a eSports project manager for a professional football club. We stream some of our games at Twitch and I take care about that.

Last times I was using a Mac Pro 2013 (ME253LL/A) and noticed that the Mac began to "sweat" already. I mean there were no big lags as long as I did not anything else than streaming on the Mac but I was surprised tho.

However I want you guys to try to answer me my actual question: Which Mac is the best one for streaming? Since we use a Elgato Game Capture and Elgato does not provide drivers we have to screen record the Elgato content from the Elgato Mac App which is kinda annoying and probably uses a lot of GPU power (not sure about that). On top of that we have some face cams, overlays, etc.

1. Mac Pro 2013 ME253LL/A 4x 3,7GHz Xeon, 12GB RAM & 2x D300 FirePro Graphics
2. Mac mini 2018 6x 3,2GHz i7, 16GB RAM & Intel UHD 630 Graphics
3. MacBook Pro 2017 4x 2,9GHz, 16GB RAM & Radeon Pro 560


Thanks in advance for your feedback guys!!

Edit: I'm also streaming + 2x recording the OBS content at the same time (1x recording with overlay and 1x recording just the gameplay).


Best regards from Germany,
Philipp
 

Narcogen

Active Member
The best Mac for streaming is the one you have. You do what you can with it and work around the limitations. (By that I don't mean the particular Mac you have-- I mean the question of using a Mac for streaming is almost always about taking a Mac you have and doing what you can with it-- not choosing a Mac as a machine whose primary duty is streaming, because there is no good choice in that area).

As a person who has and does stream and record with OBS on MacOS, Windows and Linux, I would not recommend buying a current Mac for streaming or recording with OBS.

If you have to use a Mac, ditch the Elgato and get another capture device. Magewell, AJA, and Blackmagic make capture cards and devices that work with OBS on MacOS. There is no point in buying any of the above Mac hardware and then intending it to use with window capturing the Elgato software. You would be better off replacing that device and using it directly in OBS before spending any other money on upgrading the computer. Money spent on that will probably make you happier than anything else in this equation.

No Mac can use the AMF encoder. No Mac can use the NVENC encoder. It has nothing to do with the hardware, the APIs just don't exist on MacOS for OBS to use.

The above mini might be able to use the "Apple VT Hardware Encoder" which is the equivalent of QuickSync except it doesn't perform as well. You can't use that on the Mac Pro. Not sure about the MacBook, probably you can.

Lastly, OBS depends on OpenGL on MacOS, which Apple is in the process of deprecating in favor of their own graphics API, Metal. The way forward for OBS, if any, is completely unclear on Mojave and afterwards. Some features already in Mojave do not work.

As a lifelong Mac user and Apple shareholder, it is my great disappointment that I suggest that people use a Mac for streaming if they have no other choice, but to consider moving to Ubuntu or Windows 10 if they want to use OBS to its full potential.

I actually have the above Mini available to me, but I have not attempted to stream with it. If you are seriously considering that route I might do some testing and post it here.

If you have logfiles from your existing streams it may help to post them to see how well it is performing, what adjustments you might make, and what you might expect to see by switching to one of the above machines.
 

ajonp

New Member
Oh man, I just dropped $3.5K on a MacBook Pro with
  • 2.4GHz 8‑core 9th‑generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
  • Radeon Pro Vega 20 with 4GB of HBM2 memory
  • 32GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory
  • 512GB SSD storage
Hoping that this would allow me to stream from Camlink and Display as source.
I am on with support now and telling them I will most likely be returning this laptop as it can't handle what I want.

Although I am tempted to keep this and just buy a separate linux based boxed just for streaming, as it seems like it handles edits in Final Cut Pro better.
 

Narcogen

Active Member
As a machine to edit with FCPX, that's perfectly fine.

As a platform for streaming with OBS, you're paying a lot and getting much, much less in terms of features and performance compared to a laptop priced similarly or even much, much less, unfortunately.

That doesn't mean you can't do it, or that it wouldn't perform acceptably-- it might, the only way to be sure is to try!

But it's not possible to deny that there's more bang for the buck, at least in terms of usefulness with OBS, out of lower priced Windows laptops.
 

Bobman288

New Member
Oh man, I just dropped $3.5K on a MacBook Pro with
  • 2.4GHz 8‑core 9th‑generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
  • Radeon Pro Vega 20 with 4GB of HBM2 memory
  • 32GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory
  • 512GB SSD storage
Hoping that this would allow me to stream from Camlink and Display as source.
I am on with support now and telling them I will most likely be returning this laptop as it can't handle what I want.

Although I am tempted to keep this and just buy a separate linux based boxed just for streaming, as it seems like it handles edits in Final Cut Pro better.

Looks like I'm gonna have to use bootcamp and Windows 10 from now on...
 

geerlingguy

New Member
FYI, just because a Mac isn't ideal for streaming doesn't mean you shouldn't use it for streaming. I think some people reading this thread might lose the forest for the trees.

If you're buying a computer solely for the aspect of running live streams, then any current Mac (as of 2020) is probably not a great option, since you pay a lot of money for something that is mostly 'adequate' (and not 'great') for streaming.

If you're buying a Mac because you need a Mac (e.g. used to certain software/workflows, or you are in the Final Cut ecosystem and streaming is another activity you want your Mac to do), then it's probably still a good idea to get a Mac.

I am using an old 2016 13" MacBook Pro, and it can render a 1080p stream with a full screen capture plus a small picture-in-picture capture from my Sony a6000 through a Cam Link 4K. I have to set the frame rate to 20 fps, and use the 'ultrafast' encoder setting, but it works, even while doing some other things on the computer that take over a lot of the CPU.

If not doing the other activities, I can manage a 1080p stream at slightly higher quality and 30 fps. A faster Mac would be better, so even the lower end current Macs are more than capable of handling most streams. You probably wouldn't even want to think about using a Mac for something like streaming gaming content at > 1080p, though :)
 

Narcogen

Active Member
This thread involved two users who were *purchasing new Mac hardware specifically for streaming as a primary activity*.

As much as it pains me to say so... nobody should be doing that. If running OBS is in the top 3 activities one is planning on doing with a computer, desktop or laptop... the current issues with OBS, SyphonInject, and the long-standing price/performance/feature disadvantages are just too much.

Sure, if you have a Mac already, give it a shot-- but just the complete absence of NVENC means that compared to a computer running Windows you need either more horsepower to do a stream of the same or lower quality, or you have to accept lower quality and some instability (Apple VT Hardware encoder).
 

iliketoDJ999

New Member
Oh man, I just dropped $3.5K on a MacBook Pro with
  • 2.4GHz 8‑core 9th‑generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
  • Radeon Pro Vega 20 with 4GB of HBM2 memory
  • 32GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory
  • 512GB SSD storage
Hoping that this would allow me to stream from Camlink and Display as source.
I am on with support now and telling them I will most likely be returning this laptop as it can't handle what I want.

Although I am tempted to keep this and just buy a separate linux based boxed just for streaming, as it seems like it handles edits in Final Cut Pro better.
Honestly, if its just streaming without games or other programs active, i dont see why you wouldn't be able to stream 1080p with those specs.
dont know about adding gaming to that though..

i have a late 2013 MPB 2.6GHz i7 (4-cores), 16GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2 GB
basically the highest you could spec a MBP at the time...
...and i can only stream w/Streamlabs OBS: 720p @ 30 fps with 2k bitrate while I'm using Serato to DJ (also using Elgato capture card to use my camera as a webcam. just those 3 things, pretty much maxes my entire CPU. Streamlabs OBS was using ~50% of my entire CPU alone.

After a crap ton of wasted time trying to set everything up as optimized as i could, thats the highest quality my macbook pro could handle. it just sucks a $3k+ machine can't output the quality i want. I love OSX, but i think i don't have any other choice but to move to Windows. A $3k PC would have insane specs...
 

RussSurfs

New Member
Looks like I found this forum right on time. I am new to OBS. We are using it to stream our Church services to Facebook live. We have been using a Macbook Pro and it has work pretty good. We are streaming from a webcam at this time, but want to stream from a larger Panasonic video camera we already have. The church doesn't have a dedicated Mac for this so that creates some logistic issues. I was going to purchase a new Macbook to be the primary machine for streaming. From what I'm hearing it sounds like I am better off with a Windows 10 machine. We need a laptop since our church is a beach church and we move around between 3 locations. How much Ram do I need on the windows machine. What is the minimum processor you would recommend? Thanks for your help.
 

Tangential

Member
Oh man, I just dropped $3.5K on a MacBook Pro with
  • 2.4GHz 8‑core 9th‑generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz
  • Radeon Pro Vega 20 with 4GB of HBM2 memory
  • 32GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory
  • 512GB SSD storage
Hoping that this would allow me to stream from Camlink and Display as source.
I am on with support now and telling them I will most likely be returning this laptop as it can't handle what I want.

Although I am tempted to keep this and just buy a separate linux based boxed just for streaming, as it seems like it handles edits in Final Cut Pro better.
I am a long time mac and linux user, so it hurts me to say this, but I'd probably just dual boot that box and use its hardware under windows 10 for OBS. If you can't spare the disk space for a dual boot you can get a relatively inexpensive and fast Thunderbolt 3 SSD and boot windows from that when you use OBS. I wish we could interest Apple in becoming a sponsor of OBS and helping make it a product that works well in MacOS.
 

Leo1267

New Member
Looks like I found this forum right on time. I am new to OBS. We are using it to stream our Church services to Facebook live. We have been using a Macbook Pro and it has work pretty good. We are streaming from a webcam at this time, but want to stream from a larger Panasonic video camera we already have. The church doesn't have a dedicated Mac for this so that creates some logistic issues. I was going to purchase a new Macbook to be the primary machine for streaming. From what I'm hearing it sounds like I am better off with a Windows 10 machine. We need a laptop since our church is a beach church and we move around between 3 locations. How much Ram do I need on the windows machine. What is the minimum processor you would recommend? Thanks for your help.
I am in the same spot. Due to COVID, we setup a hodgepodge of free and nearly free equipment to get our services streaming on FB and YouTube. To paraphrase Nargogen above, we are using the Mac we have. Our current setup uses a 2015 iMac, three iPhones (thanks to my wife and kids to let me borrow those each Sunday morning), an Elgato 60+ to capture our main sanctuary screen, and an Apogee Duo to input sound from the soundboard. We are also using Up Deck for some audio macro support.

We have started the transition and "do we want to keep doing this" discussions for when normal starts to reveal itself. Clearly my kids and wife will not let me keep using their iPhones forever and we want to start making sound choices for equipment going forward. I would welcome any insight you all have regarding choice of streaming computer, cameras, ambient mics, and the other gizmos and gadgets necessary to support a church streaming environment going forward. I am not gunning for studio quality. I just want to be sure we start off on the right foot when we making those choices.
 

slp79

New Member
If you have to use a Mac, ditch the Elgato and get another capture device. Magewell, AJA, and Blackmagic make capture cards and devices that work with OBS on MacOS. There is no point in buying any of the above Mac hardware and then intending it to use with window capturing the Elgato software. You would be better off replacing that device and using it directly in OBS before spending any other money on upgrading the computer. Money spent on that will probably make you happier than anything else in this equation.

No Mac can use the AMF encoder. No Mac can use the NVENC encoder. It has nothing to do with the hardware, the APIs just don't exist on MacOS for OBS to use.

The above mini might be able to use the "Apple VT Hardware Encoder" which is the equivalent of QuickSync except it doesn't perform as well. You can't use that on the Mac Pro. Not sure about the MacBook, probably you can.

Lastly, OBS depends on OpenGL on MacOS, which Apple is in the process of deprecating in favor of their own graphics API, Metal. The way forward for OBS, if any, is completely unclear on Mojave and afterwards. Some features already in Mojave do not work.
Thanks for your valuable input. I've been trying to get to specifics in the why. Just wondering whats wrong with the x264 encoder? Obs also states
macOS:

  • Intel CPU (PPC is not supported)
  • OpenGL 3.2 compatible GPU
  • macOS 10.12 or newer
And there are a list of apple with opengl https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202823
I really want to stick with macs for moving files around and using my already paid for software for making content.
So I am assuming that your point is just on newer macs?
Thanks
 

beyonder

Member
Thanks for your valuable input. I've been trying to get to specifics in the why. Just wondering whats wrong with the x264 encoder? Obs also states
macOS:

  • Intel CPU (PPC is not supported)
  • OpenGL 3.2 compatible GPU
  • macOS 10.12 or newer
And there are a list of apple with opengl https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202823
I really want to stick with macs for moving files around and using my already paid for software for making content.
So I am assuming that your point is just on newer macs?
Thanks


Please correct me if something is not correct but here goes.
--------------------------
OpenGL was deprecated by Apple in 2018 they are all in with Metal I do not know what the plans are for Mac OBS and Metal support.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12894/apple-deprecates-opengl-across-all-oses
Look at the post here about poor window capture performance and 25.0.8 causing higher CPU usage then 25.0.6 in Catalina.

nothing is wrong with x264 but when you have to encode x264 with your CPU that leaves less resources for other things.

Nvidia, Radeon and Intel CPU has hardware h264 encoding.

Nvidia NVENC Mac OBS does not support it and Macs are in bed with AMD Radeon GPU. The cheapest GPU with the Newer Turing NVENC is a GTX 1660 for about $250. With this GPU you could encode H264 with little to no impact on CPU or GPU usage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fyP7kg0QAc

Radeon encoder is not as good and as far as I know Mac OBS does not support it.

Intel ix CPU have QuickSync. Quality is about as good as Radeon. Mac OBS uses this though the Apple Hardware Encoder. Some people can get it to work others get an error message saying it is not working when you try to record using it. When I tried it with Twitch my stream starts to drop frames after a few minutes.

Intel Xeon server CPU do not all have Quicksync hardware encoding. iMac pros and Mac Pro use Intel Server CPU
----------------------------

a simple test you can conduct

install windows 10 in boot camp
install OBS and try setting up your stream and see how it works out.
 
Last edited:

slp79

New Member
a simple test you can conduct

install windows 10 in boot camp
install OBS and try setting up your stream and see how it works out.

Thanks for info! I need to learn a bit more to understand it all.
Your test though, aren't we primarily talking about hardware? What would this test show me?
 

beyonder

Member
Thanks for info! I need to learn a bit more to understand it all.
Your test though, aren't we primarily talking about hardware? What would this test show me?

We are talking about Hardware and what the OS and Software can do with it.

Hardware being the same if you get better OBS performance in windows then Windows+OBS works better then OSX+OBS
 

dubbe

New Member
Please correct me if something is not correct but here goes.
--------------------------
OpenGL was deprecated by Apple in 2018 they are all in with Metal I do not know what the plans are for Mac OBS and Metal support.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12894/apple-deprecates-opengl-across-all-oses
Look at the post here about poor window capture performance and 25.0.8 causing higher CPU usage then 25.0.6 in Catalina.

nothing is wrong with x264 but when you have to encode x264 with your CPU that leaves less resources for other things.

Nvidia, Radeon and Intel CPU has hardware h264 encoding.

Nvidia NVENC Mac OBS does not support it and Macs are in bed with AMD Radeon GPU. The cheapest GPU with the Newer Turing NVENC is a GTX 1660 for about $250. With this GPU you could encode H264 with little to no impact on CPU or GPU usage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fyP7kg0QAc

Radeon encoder is not as good and as far as I know Mac OBS does not support it.

Intel ix CPU have QuickSync. Quality is about as good as Radeon. Mac OBS uses this though the Apple Hardware Encoder. Some people can get it to work others get an error message saying it is not working when you try to record using it. When I tried it with Twitch my stream starts to drop frames after a few minutes.

Intel Xeon server CPU do not all have Quicksync hardware encoding. iMac pros and Mac Pro use Intel Server CPU
----------------------------

a simple test you can conduct

install windows 10 in boot camp
install OBS and try setting up your stream and see how it works out.

@beyonder thanks for your help breaking this down!

We're in the process of upgrading our church's live streaming gear and are considering purchasing this MacBook Pro HERE.

Even though this MacBook has the AMD Radeon Pro 560X GPU, you are definitely saying we're still better off switching to a Windows system? Since we currently use Ecamm Live for streaming (which is Mac only) we'd have to switch to OBS. We tried OBS with our existing MacBook Pro but had encoding issues. I don't believe our current Mac has a GPU graphics card, which is why it only offers the H264 Software or Hardware encoder. :/

PS: Ecamm Live works just fine for us on the same MacBook, which has issues in OBS. What encoder is Ecamm using?
 

beyonder

Member
@beyonder thanks for your help breaking this down!

We're in the process of upgrading our church's live streaming gear and are considering purchasing this MacBook Pro HERE.

Even though this MacBook has the AMD Radeon Pro 560X GPU, you are definitely saying we're still better off switching to a Windows system? Since we currently use Ecamm Live for streaming (which is Mac only) we'd have to switch to OBS. We tried OBS with our existing MacBook Pro but had encoding issues. I don't believe our current Mac has a GPU graphics card, which is why it only offers the H264 Software or Hardware encoder. :/

PS: Ecamm Live works just fine for us on the same MacBook, which has issues in OBS. What encoder is Ecamm using?

I have not used Ecamm Live so nothing I can add there. If the software is working for you on a Mac then keep using it. If OBS has features you want that Ecamm does not then maybe consider a cheaper windows computer for streaming. The NVIDIA GTX 1660 is the cheapest video card with the Turing NVENC hardware encoder.

I feel software optimization has a lot to do with how well it will work or not. OBS works better on the Windows side compare to the Mac side with similar hardware.

Your streaming software of choice needs to take advantage of your hardware encoder.

The first few minutes of the below video talks about the below encoders and quality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccoOGfX9qxg

AMD has AMF/VCE
MVIDA has NVENC
Intel has QuickSync
 

KC_David

New Member
Dubbe,
I can speak from personal experience using a nearly identical MacBook Pro (2019 model, 6-core i9, 32GB RAM, Radeon 560X 4GB GPU), that the OBS experience is nowhere near the Windows experience on my XPS 15 (core i7, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA 1650 4GB GPU). I'm in a similar situation, where I have volunteered to livestream my church's weekly services during the COVID pandemic, and feeding the laptops from my Blackmagic ATEM Mini has the PC outperforming the Mac with fewer dropped frames and faster recovery when the WiFi signal dips.

I haven't tried Ecamm software (which looks like a Mac-only, paid version that basically does what OBS does for free), but if you're already on a Mac and using Ecamm, I'd probably hold tight. If you have access to a powerful PC, try OBS and save the $12 per month.
 

Karl Latham

New Member
The best Mac for streaming is the one you have. You do what you can with it and work around the limitations. (By that I don't mean the particular Mac you have-- I mean the question of using a Mac for streaming is almost always about taking a Mac you have and doing what you can with it-- not choosing a Mac as a machine whose primary duty is streaming, because there is no good choice in that area).

As a person who has and does stream and record with OBS on MacOS, Windows and Linux, I would not recommend buying a current Mac for streaming or recording with OBS.

If you have to use a Mac, ditch the Elgato and get another capture device. Magewell, AJA, and Blackmagic make capture cards and devices that work with OBS on MacOS. There is no point in buying any of the above Mac hardware and then intending it to use with window capturing the Elgato software. You would be better off replacing that device and using it directly in OBS before spending any other money on upgrading the computer. Money spent on that will probably make you happier than anything else in this equation.

No Mac can use the AMF encoder. No Mac can use the NVENC encoder. It has nothing to do with the hardware, the APIs just don't exist on MacOS for OBS to use.

The above mini might be able to use the "Apple VT Hardware Encoder" which is the equivalent of QuickSync except it doesn't perform as well. You can't use that on the Mac Pro. Not sure about the MacBook, probably you can.

Lastly, OBS depends on OpenGL on MacOS, which Apple is in the process of deprecating in favor of their own graphics API, Metal. The way forward for OBS, if any, is completely unclear on Mojave and afterwards. Some features already in Mojave do not work.

As a lifelong Mac user and Apple shareholder, it is my great disappointment that I suggest that people use a Mac for streaming if they have no other choice, but to consider moving to Ubuntu or Windows 10 if they want to use OBS to its full potential.

I actually have the above Mini available to me, but I have not attempted to stream with it. If you are seriously considering that route I might do some testing and post it here.

If you have logfiles from your existing streams it may help to post them to see how well it is performing, what adjustments you might make, and what you might expect to see by switching to one of the above machines.
as another 20 year Mac only user with ProTools and a handful of audio programs, i am attempting to stream (with some success) on a 2014 Macbook Pro, all of the audio work is being done in another machine, just OBS and StreamDeck running bascially in my laptop
I want to get a barebones non Mac Desktop to run OBS and StreamDeck at lowest possible cost, are there any recommendations for a Windows PC to stream through that will not kill my bank account? Ty In Advance
 

beyonder

Member
as another 20 year Mac only user with ProTools and a handful of audio programs, i am attempting to stream (with some success) on a 2014 Macbook Pro, all of the audio work is being done in another machine, just OBS and StreamDeck running bascially in my laptop
I want to get a barebones non Mac Desktop to run OBS and StreamDeck at lowest possible cost, are there any recommendations for a Windows PC to stream through that will not kill my bank account? Ty In Advance

The cheapest GPU with the Newer Turing NVENC is a GTX 1660. 16GB memory and Ryzen 5 3600 or i5 will do well.

The NVENC encoder will handle all the h264 encoding leaving your CPU free to do other stuff
 
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